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AuthorTopic: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"  (Read 15778 times)

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guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #255 on: February 28, 2020, 02:06:20 PM »
@Thomas Richter
Just curious. Who told you this was never a part of the lawsuits?
I haven't said that it isn't *part* of the lawsuit, but it is not what the lawsuit is all about. Besides, there is not "the" lawsuit, but multiple, over trademarks, for example, is another one.
Cloanto could also have made a case just out of this, and accept the exclusive development license on the Hyperion side. They didn't do that.
 

Offline number6

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #256 on: February 28, 2020, 02:18:31 PM »
@Thomas Richter
Just curious. Who told you this was never a part of the lawsuits?
I haven't said that it isn't *part* of the lawsuit, but it is not what the lawsuit is all about. Besides, there is not "the" lawsuit, but multiple, over trademarks, for example, is another one.
Cloanto could also have made a case just out of this, and accept the exclusive development license on the Hyperion side. They didn't do that.

Well what you quoted from me says "lawsuits" (plural), so I have no clue why you decided to respond by indicating I said something other than what I said ("the" lawsuit).
I'm obviously well aware of the trademark lawsuit, but that case is "stayed" pending resolution of the contract lawsuit.

#6
 

Offline cgutjahr

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #257 on: February 28, 2020, 03:35:11 PM »
Let me recapitulate:
Please don't.

Quote
Then Amiga Inc. claims that AmigaOs 4 is their property, after Amiga DE fails.
They simply executed the buy back clause that Ben Hermans himself had written into the 2001 contract. For 25,000 USD, they'd get the rights to OS4. End of story.

But Ben claimed he wasn't paid in full, so he didn't hand over OS4 - that's the reason he got sued. During the case, it turned out that Amiga had paid the 25000 USD, plus some older debts for AmigaDE related work Hyperion had done - but somehow messed up and transferred 500 USD (IIRC) less than the total they owed Hyperion.

Ben Hermans destroyed both OS4 and the company he was supposed to run - for the chance to steal the Amiga IP. And in the end, he got to keep the 25000 USD and OS4 - after a 2.5 year long court battle, because Amiga had missed a 500 USD payment.

Quote
Hyperion goes to court
Hyperion didn't go to court, they waited until the were sued.

Quote
Amiga Inc. goes bankrupt, transfering ownership to Amigo (or what's is name), renaming this enterprise again to Amiga.
That happened way before the court case, and it happened with Hyperion's consent.

Quote
Then, Amiga Inc. sells again its "property" to Cloanto. So I really wonder who is the thief in all this epic novel. If you want to point fingers, Amiga Inc. seems to be a much more suitable target for that, having two victims.
Said the guy who's acknowledging Hyperion are pirating 1.3 yet he's still financing their current lawsuit. Not sure I'd trust your judgement on issues like that. And kudos for bringing up Cloanto again.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 03:40:38 PM by cgutjahr »
 

Offline Brian Hoskins

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #258 on: February 28, 2020, 03:45:28 PM »
Of course they are doing it for money. This is not about "liberation of AmigaOs" or whatever someone may consider in their dreams. That's just a story Cloanto sells, for the same reason as Hyperion: Hoping to attract developers to jump on their bandwagon, and do the work for them.

Of course Cloanto is in the business of making money - as are the majority of us, to larger or lesser extents.  Ultimately, money is the medium through which we house, feed and better the position of our families (and/or ourselves).
Most of us have to continually make money in order for the show to go on.  Other, more fortunate people, eventually have enough money that they can afford to fund their lifestyle and interests without the requirement to earn any more.

Some people (like myself, actually) have a very blurred line between what is considered working because they have to, and what is considered working because their job is satisfying an interest. 
Unless you're in the position where you literally don't need to make any more money, then having a nice blurred line like this is about as good a compromise as you're going to get.

So when you say Cloanto is in this for the money, I'd agree.  When you say it isn't about liberation of AmigaOS or other such fanciful things, I don't think I can necessarily agree because those goals are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

It's possible, is it not, that Mike Battilana is a core AMIGA fan first, and a money earner second.  Running Cloanto is the means by which he keeps his family happy, and also sustains his very expensive interest in the betterment of the AMIGA platform.  Having his cake and eating it, so to speak.

Now, I've never met Mike Battilana so I am not claiming this is the case for him.  But I am offering to you that this is a possibility.  Indeed, not so outrageous a possibility given that most software (or hardware) development companies could almost certainly make more money outside of AMIGA circles these days.

So I guess I take a less cynical view on this point.


Offline Kremlar

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #259 on: March 01, 2020, 02:10:16 AM »
Sell? Market? How do you know?
Because I know the sales numbers of 3.1.4, and yes, there is some money in it. Not big one, but more than nothing.

What if Cloanto is not doing it for money?
Exccuse me, are you a bit naive? Why would anyone pay lawers and go to court and sue its competitor in multiple cases if this anyone does not assume to get his money back, at some point? If Cloanto isn't for money, why not just let Hyperion sell whatever they want to sell, and be good with it? As there is no business in your assumption, it couldn't harm Cloanto.

Cloanto sees its market damaged, that's why. Plain and simple, because they cannot come up with a competative product, they go to court.

Is it naive to believe you worked on 3.1.4 for "free" as well?

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #260 on: March 01, 2020, 06:44:59 AM »
Is it naive to believe you worked on 3.1.4 for "free" as well?
What do you want to imply? That I'm lying? Thank you so much. It's probably not enough having worked on 3.1.4 without payment (not alone, of course), and having provided freeware over the last 20 years or so, also without payment. What else do you need? Do I need to open up my bank account to prove it? Which type of conspiracy theory comes next?

Offline kamelito

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #261 on: March 01, 2020, 09:42:51 AM »
@Thomas Richter
Honestly I don’t understand why you waste your precious time with those guys.

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #262 on: March 01, 2020, 10:18:17 AM »
@Thomas Richter

Is it for the love of the purity of the code? Doesn't Cypher talk about that in The Matrix? When you start wholeheartedly supporting shady lawyers masquerading as a software developer for free your in the realms of politically championing a cause rather than traditional employment! While I admire the coding skills I think the whole Hyperion business model is a mess! Do they give you a bottle if wine at Christmas or just free legal representation?  ;D
« Last Edit: March 01, 2020, 10:19:43 AM by BozzerBigD »
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #263 on: March 01, 2020, 11:32:11 AM »
Is it for the love of the purity of the code?
There is nothing "pure" in the AmigaOs code, but call it "the hope for improving the situation", and "the desire to get all the bugs out". I had long enough an always crashing A2000, and I always wondered why. On the road of finding the issue, lots of code was created, the COP debugger for one thing. After all, it turned out to be a hardware issue. What this is all about is to lower the frustration at user side when software crashes, avoid the need for incompetent hacks and patches, and provide something that is robust and stable, worth calling an Os.

When you start wholeheartedly supporting shady lawyers masquerading as a software developer for free your in the realms of politically championing a cause rather than traditional employment!
I already have traditional employment, so I have an income, and thanks, not an income from Hyperion. Too risky.

While I admire the coding skills I think the whole Hyperion business model is a mess!
The business model is as clear as it can be. Sell software for money. That's simple enough, but the whole implementation of this model is a mess. Nobody there knows how to run a business, that's for sure.

Do they give you a bottle if wine at Christmas or just free legal representation?  ;D
I asked for nothing, and I don't want presents from them.
 

Offline Senex

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #264 on: March 01, 2020, 11:53:22 AM »
Quote
What do you want to imply?

What I thought he wanted to imply is that you are not dependent on an income from your Amiga work, since you're earning your money by another job. Thus the same could apply to Mike.
 

Offline Brian Hoskins

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #265 on: March 01, 2020, 12:24:38 PM »
Is it naive to believe you worked on 3.1.4 for "free" as well?
What do you want to imply? That I'm lying? Thank you so much.

@Kremlar: In harmless forum interactions with people why not take them at face value, unless you have a good reason not to?

Thomas' claim to have worked for free - published numerous times on a public forum - would be easily (and I imagine quickly) falsified by an employer if it were a lie.  Given that there has been no such rebuttal, it seems very unlikely that Thomas is not telling the truth in this matter.
 
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Offline Gulliver

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #266 on: March 01, 2020, 02:19:23 PM »
Quote
What do you want to imply?

What I thought he wanted to imply is that you are not dependent on an income from your Amiga work, since you're earning your money by another job. Thus the same could apply to Mike.

They are both totally different categories of people. Mike does not develop Amiga software right now.
He lives in part by licensing Commodore stuff. He is charging money for Amiga Forever and licensing roms.
The only development he does is on the emulation wrapper he provides, and even that, I believe is outsourced.
 

Offline Senex

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #267 on: March 01, 2020, 02:30:32 PM »
Quote
Mike does not develop Amiga software right now.

And? Trevor himself doesn't program any software either. The comparison was that someone can indeed "waste" spare time and/or money for some hobby when his real job earns him enough money to do so. And as far as I know Mike did not state yet he does his C-A Acquisition endeavor for a living.

Please note: I don't claim the opposite either. I just considered it funny to totally rule out Mike could do this out of enthusiasm only while there's Trevor at the same time going around for several years now spending his money here and there.
 

Offline number6

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #268 on: March 02, 2020, 05:27:40 PM »
Quote
Mike does not develop Amiga software right now.

And? Trevor himself doesn't program any software either. The comparison was that someone can indeed "waste" spare time and/or money for some hobby when his real job earns him enough money to do so. And as far as I know Mike did not state yet he does his C-A Acquisition endeavor for a living.

Please note: I don't claim the opposite either. I just considered it funny to totally rule out Mike could do this out of enthusiasm only while there's Trevor at the same time going around for several years now spending his money here and there.

I'm seeing a slight difference in the content of the last 2 documents from the court and a new document not mentioned yet by the court, which appeared a few days ago.
I'll repost the old links and the new one for you to compare:

the order to show cause ( the contract case)

Quote
Plaintiffs request the Court order the parties to participate in alternative dispute
resolution. Dkt. #86 at 6. The Court does not believe that such is required at this point, as the
parties have recently participated in settlement discussions and can continue to do so
voluntarily.

the order staying the trademark case

Quote
the Court hereby finds and
ORDERS that this matter is STAYED until Case No. 18-cv-381-RSM is resolved or until otherwise ordered by this Court. Upon the resolution of Case No. 18-cv-381-RSM, Plaintiffs are to file a status report in this case within fourteen (14) days.

Both of these sound somewhat vague as to the next court ordered deadline, no?

Yet the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board says:
 
Quote
The parties are allowed until thirty days from the date of this order in which to
inform the Board of the status of the civil action which occasioned the suspension of
this proceeding. If no response to this order is received from either party, the Board
will resume proceedings and reset dates, as appropriate.

Source 4 days ago

Giving a due date of 30 days for response sure sounds different than "until is resolved" imo.

#6

Offline Louis Dias

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #269 on: March 02, 2020, 06:54:51 PM »
#6

How dare you go on topic!