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AuthorTopic: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"  (Read 15792 times)

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Offline kolla

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #225 on: February 24, 2020, 02:45:02 PM »
I would rather see AmigaOS take same approach as HaikuOS - https://www.haiku-os.org/about/ and I also see Claonto as a much better equivalent to Haiku Inc than Hyperion can ever hope to be.
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Offline ronniebeck

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #226 on: February 24, 2020, 03:32:56 PM »
Yes, but "closed source" does not mean "companies".
Correct.  It is a licensing standard.  Nothing to do with the organisation of developers be they employees of a company or freelancers working from home in their spare time.  Nothing to do with development models.  Or trolls.  Just the rights granted to users/developers/recipiants/etc of the software.

I believe this is an ideal compromize: The sources are kept together, decisions can be made openly and transparently, the thing can be funded.
Sources kept together and decisions made openly and transparently.  Music to my ears.  Sounds like you are warming to the idea of open source.
But no need to compromise!  You need not stop at the halfway point.  Make the full journey to openness!

Actually, this is not at all so different from the "ISO" or "IETF" model I know. It may be a bit slow (especially on the ISO side with all its overhead), but it is workable.
Where is Kolla?  This is where he writes something like: Yes, because that's exactly what the Amiga needs.  More slow development.

And when they go, the knowledge and source code sometimes go with them.  Ope source could preserve that.
Open Source does not preserve knowledge. Documentation does.
Correct.  Because Open Source is a licensing standard.  You need to write documentation independently of your License and development model.  A task not at all prevented by Open (or closed) Source.
But the act of open sourcing software allows people to legally keep copies of the software source code AND documentation.  Thus preserving it!  And a good programmer keeps good comments with their code to allow others to pickup where they left off.  Again, not at all something hindered by Open (or closed) Source.  Just simple good developer discipline.

Thus, I strongly believe that the whole thing requires more organization than an open source model could deliver.
Thus, I strongly believe that the whole thing is about organisation (and possibly control) and not about open source.

Nothing you have said is prevented by open source.  In fact, you sound quite open yourself in many respects.  Keep it up!  It gives me hope.

Offline Brian Hoskins

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #227 on: February 24, 2020, 03:49:41 PM »
I would rather see AmigaOS take same approach as HaikuOS - https://www.haiku-os.org/about/ and I also see Claonto as a much better equivalent to Haiku Inc than Hyperion can ever hope to be.

From their website:
Quote
The project consists of a single team writing everything from the kernel, drivers, userland services, tool kit, and graphics stack to the included desktop applications and preflets.

See, this is exactly what I think wouldn't happen if AmigaOS were simply made open-source.  We'd end up with a bunch of different 'teams' all thinking they know best and taking the OS in their own directions in multiple forks.

Thomas' suggestion of the foundation approaches a good compromise, I think.  You would need to have some entity in charge of the AmigaOS development otherwise chaos would ensue.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #228 on: February 24, 2020, 04:01:40 PM »
you guys completely unerestimates how much work it to create a own forke. Even on aros there are no forkes because it is too much work (even if someone is motivated)

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #229 on: February 24, 2020, 04:33:57 PM »
Let me remind you that the topic here is a hobby operating system, which primary function is to be pretty to look at and launch old games - what you describe is just utter overkill. FFS...

Holy crap what a flashback - open amiga, an amiga council... this did not work 20 years ago, and will certainly not work now.
You are contradicting yourself. At one point, you blame me for modifying the shell syntax (for reasons, I explained them). At the other hand, you like to invite everybody to play with the sources as they like. How likely, do you think, is it then that somebody modifies the sources in another way you do not like? What happens then?

Folks, this thing *requires* some sort of coordination, and you do not get that by "free forking for everyone", and "a troll attack every day".

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #230 on: February 24, 2020, 04:35:20 PM »
you guys completely unerestimates how much work it to create a own forke. Even on aros there are no forkes because it is too much work (even if someone is motivated)
I don't know how AROS is managed, but AmigaOs has - in the meantime - a pretty workable build infrastructure that can be executed on Linux.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #231 on: February 24, 2020, 04:45:02 PM »
yes but someone skilled with both interest and time has to make commits
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #232 on: February 24, 2020, 05:16:02 PM »
I don't know how AROS is managed, but AmigaOs has - in the meantime - a pretty workable build infrastructure that can be executed on Linux.

you mean a build system? yes. aros has this. it can be executed in linux. it can be executed on darwin as far as i gather from commits and developers (but im personally not using it). its has been used under windows apparently for mingw hosted, but i think it isnt maintained right now. and it has also been possible to a degree to build aros natively on aros (target platform), but this also is not properly maintained right now. however it should be possible to build smaller apps natively. the choice of gnu tools, etc. are building from contributions and one can run them on aros.

as compiler there is a choice of gcc version varying currently from 6.5-0 to beta 10. the previous have been obsoleted. on darwin apparently also clang/llvm is being used.
the usage and handling of aros build system is pretty easy on any linux i came across. its just configure, followed by target and demanded flags and then make. you can also clean, build or rebuilt particular modules. such as specific programs/binaries. yes it has some quirk here and there, but altogether is pretty versatile.

when building m68k as example you can set up the build dir as a drive in fs-use for testing and off you go. when testing ppc you may want to choose the built bootiso as your boot drive in qemu. testing linux hosted i396/x86_64 is straight forward as it gets.

Offline wawrzon

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #233 on: February 24, 2020, 06:24:23 PM »
btw. no need to guess. the (current) source is in the open and everybody can download or browse it and check for themselves:
https://github.com/aros-development-team

Offline giZmo350

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #234 on: February 25, 2020, 01:09:58 AM »
I see ya'll took the day off!  ;D
.......or, "Were bunkin off!"   :o




« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 03:43:32 AM by giZmo350 »
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Offline Tygre

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #235 on: February 25, 2020, 02:14:24 AM »
Hi all!

The discussion is now completely off-topic... Could moderators create a thread dedicated to open-sourcing (or not) AmigaOS and move there most of the posts in this thread, starting with the post #17?

On the topic of open-source, this article from Ars Technica summarises very well the different open-source licenses. This is a must-read for anyone who wants to contribute to this thread! ;D

Regarding the need to keep AmigaOS closed source, two thoughts:
  • The difficulty to fork, compile, change the code would probably prevent "silly" forks;
  • Even if some developers managed to fork the code:
    • Their changes are beneficial and users will use them.
    • Their changes are silly and nobody will care.

With an open-source license (copyleft), beneficial changes would/could be integrated back into the "main" repo., thus benefitting everyone, without creating too much "noise". 8)

Are there any other reasons for which the code should not be open-souce? (Not talking about legalese here, I'm talking about serious ;) management, community, and-or technical issues.)

Cheers!

Offline wawrzon

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #236 on: February 25, 2020, 03:33:50 AM »
beneficial changes would/could be integrated back into the "main" repo.

thats probably the very philosophy behind forks and pull requests on github, right?

Offline wawrzon

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #237 on: February 25, 2020, 03:36:25 AM »
btw. judging by commits tonight looks like our llvm toolchain improves.
 

Offline Tygre

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #238 on: February 25, 2020, 04:08:38 AM »
beneficial changes would/could be integrated back into the "main" repo.

thats probably the very philosophy behind forks and pull requests on github, right?

My thoughts exactly! :)

Cheers!

Offline bison

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #239 on: February 25, 2020, 04:09:17 AM »
you guys completely unerestimates how much work it to create a own forke. Even on aros there are no forkes because it is too much work (even if someone is motivated)
This is a good point.  Not only is it a lot of work to create a fork, but it's a lot of work maintaining it, trying to back-port changes to keep it in sync with the trunk.

The Fear of Forks is overblown.  No one creates one unless they have a good reason to.  And I'm not really sure what a "silly fork' is -- it sounds like a Monty Python sketch to me. ;)
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 04:11:10 AM by bison »
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