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AuthorTopic: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"  (Read 15793 times)

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Offline wawrzon

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #240 on: February 25, 2020, 04:29:40 AM »
tbh. there are forks of aros, an example is abi v0, a base for current x86 distri, which is being maintained, sort of in a separate repo, while most of work is done on abi v1, also arix and probably anubis were kind of forks. and there is sure few more, but they dont seem to gain much attention. also we provide a kind of slightly modified fork of the main repo, for stuff that doesnt belong there.

edit: and actually almost anyone contributing to aros hosts himself a fork of main repo, containing his own changes and experiments..
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 08:39:57 AM by wawrzon »
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #241 on: February 25, 2020, 09:11:31 AM »
at the end most of the forks were dead soon after being created...
 

Offline kolla

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #242 on: February 25, 2020, 09:58:57 AM »
You are contradicting yourself. At one point, you blame me for modifying the shell syntax (for reasons, I explained them).

I have not blamed you for syntax changes (what syntax changes?), I blamed you for introducing new features, apparently without much thorough testing, shipping this immature and buggy version of the shell,  _in kickstart roms_.

Quote
At the other hand, you like to invite everybody to play with the sources as they like. How likely, do you think, is it then that somebody modifies the sources in another way you do not like? What happens then?

What happens then is that code is tested "in the wild" thoroughly for quite some time before ending up on kickstart rom chips.
Another thing that happens is that customers will not have to wait an unknown number of months for updates and bugfixes.

Quote
Folks, this thing *requires* some sort of coordination, and you do not get that by "free forking for everyone", and "a troll attack every day".

This "free forking for everyone" FUD is nonsense, and giving trolls a committee does not help much.
.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM460 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #243 on: February 25, 2020, 10:12:18 AM »
Most "forks" on github etc are not about forking projects, but more about having a source for pull requests to the main repo.

Also people keep "forks" simply as backup in case the main repo vanishes.

(I keep my own "forks" of quite a few projects just for simple modifications, mostly related to meta-data (tagging, packaging etc) and not so much because of actual code changes, these "forks" automatically pull from upstream regularly, and packages are built via gitlab-ci when I tag something for production ready.)
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM460 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline mschulz

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #244 on: February 25, 2020, 12:03:47 PM »
Quote
Most "forks" on github etc are not about forking projects, but more about having a source for pull requests to the main repo.

This is exactly how we do it. I have my own AROS for from main repository. There, I can work on one or more several things at once, keeping each of them in separate branch. Once such branch is ready to be merged (e.g. a feature is complete, bugs fixed or whatever) I can create a pull request to the main AROS repository. Alternatively, I can create a pull request to any other for of the main repository if someone else wants to have it/test it.

Such workflow is very helpful and allows one to keep things separated as long as necessary.

Offline Plaz

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #245 on: February 27, 2020, 12:57:34 PM »
Once such branch is ready to be merged (e.g. a feature is complete, bugs fixed or whatever) I can create a pull request to the main

I use a similar work flow. I work on my own "deadend" forks and branches to both learn the code base better and then contribute back to the main supported branch. My projects are not opensource either and come with their own license, but the code is available to work with.

Plaz
 

Offline Steino

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #246 on: February 28, 2020, 05:59:17 AM »
@cgutjahr
Cloanto does not offer anything at all. They have never approached us with any sort of plan or proposal.

Never approached? In one of the recent livestreams Mike was saying how he and developers met at Amiga 30 to discuss Amiga Classic. What do you know about that meeting, and about what followed?

It's Hyperion who apparently hijacked that.

Though, if by "us" you are referring to those who are financing Hyperion's various lawsuits against Amiga, Amino, Itec and Cloanto, I might forgive you for taking sides.  ;)
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

George Orwell
 

Offline Steino

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #247 on: February 28, 2020, 06:10:59 AM »
Cloanto seems to believe that it is a good idea that "the community" drives "development", they take a snapshot from time to time, put a nice box and a binder around it and sell the result.
...
Cloanto, however, is either acting foolish, or is trying to fool you. If they really want to go where they claim, they are destroying their product and their market, just for the attempt at looking nice.

Sell? Market? How do you know? What if Cloanto is not doing it for money? That would disrupt your whole pile of assumptions, wouldn't it?

Just look at the 2019 lawsuit (the one Hyperion won't even respond to), the Amiga/Cloanto parties didn't ask for money (damages), they just asked that the settlement agreement be clarified, and that Hyperion respect it.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

George Orwell
 

Offline Rotzloeffel

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #248 on: February 28, 2020, 06:57:46 AM »

In one of the recent livestreams Mike was saying how he and developers met at Amiga 30 to discuss Amiga Classic.

And These "Developers" are? Most of the Rights for "new" System-Tools in 3.9 felt back to the original developers… what would your so called developers develop without any Sources ??

Mike was talking foo… look at 3.x! A bunch of dirty patches which giving more problems to users than benefit......
Save Planet Earth! It is the only one in the galaxy with fresh and cold beer :laughing:
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #249 on: February 28, 2020, 07:03:26 AM »
Sell? Market? How do you know?
Because I know the sales numbers of 3.1.4, and yes, there is some money in it. Not big one, but more than nothing.

What if Cloanto is not doing it for money?
Exccuse me, are you a bit naive? Why would anyone pay lawers and go to court and sue its competitor in multiple cases if this anyone does not assume to get his money back, at some point? If Cloanto isn't for money, why not just let Hyperion sell whatever they want to sell, and be good with it? As there is no business in your assumption, it couldn't harm Cloanto.

Cloanto sees its market damaged, that's why. Plain and simple, because they cannot come up with a competative product, they go to court.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #250 on: February 28, 2020, 10:41:56 AM »
you are very uniquesided... despite claiming not to have interests or get money...

it is not only about having not a cpmpetitive product, Hyperion also sold license for kickstarts to iComp

from Cloantos business view they are doing what Hyperion is not allowed to, they were only allowed to develop 4.X based on 3.X sources

Hyperion obviously interprets this very differently and that is the reason for the lawsuit

who is right from a legal point will be decided before court. You often sound like a speechman and clerk from hyperion

BTW I cannot judge too who is right there (regarding the contract)

« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 10:52:11 AM by OlafS3 »
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #251 on: February 28, 2020, 10:57:23 AM »
you are very uniquesided... despite claiming not to have interests or get money...
Please read again: This is Cloanto who wants to earn money, and Hyperion that wants to earn money. I am not Hyperion, and I don't earn money with their products, and I don't even care about it. Don't confuse me with Hyperion. Why do you believe that if I don't want to earn money, Hyperion doesn't either? I'm not claiming that at all.

it is not only about having not a cpmpetitive product, Hyperion also sold license for kickstarts to iComp
That's not the accusal, though. If Cloanto wanted to stop Hyperion selling 1.3 - IMHO correctly so - why not bringing this particular case - namely on 1.3 - to court?

from Cloantos business view they are doing what Hyperion is not allowed to, they were only allowed to develop 4.X based on 3.X sources
Hyperion obviously interprets this very differently and that is the reason for the lawsuit
Well, yes, but if Cloanto isn't bringing this to court to maximize their income, why would they? Does anyone really believe they run a charity?

You often sound like a speechman and clerk from hyperion
And the O.P. like one for Cloanto. These are competing enterprises. Believing that Cloanto is doing this "to be nice to anyone" is just naive. They want to protect their market and their products, obviously.

 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #252 on: February 28, 2020, 10:59:28 AM »
I do not think Cloanto is for charity

Both obviously want to earn from the amiga market (what some call classic) and interpret a contract to their favor

Business against business
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #253 on: February 28, 2020, 11:28:20 AM »
I do not think Cloanto is for charity

Both obviously want to earn from the amiga market (what some call classic) and interpret a contract to their favor

Business against business
Absolutely, what else? Never stated or believed anything else.

And this claim:
Quote
What if Cloanto is not doing it for money?
is just naive.

Of course they are doing it for money. This is not about "liberation of AmigaOs" or whatever someone may consider in their dreams. That's just a story Cloanto sells, for the same reason as Hyperion: Hoping to attract developers to jump on their bandwagon, and do the work for them. Just like Hyperion, just a different development model. Fine enough, just understand what is going on here, and I'm not accusing them for this particular business model.

Just predending to do something else, or believing "they are not doing it for money" is naive. That is the wrong part. The problem Cloanto has now: The sources are (physically, maybe not legally) under control of Hyperion, and that is a problem they try to solve with this lawsuit. Nothing else.

 

Offline number6

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #254 on: February 28, 2020, 01:26:02 PM »
@Thomas Richter

Quote
That's not the accusal, though. If Cloanto wanted to stop Hyperion selling 1.3 - IMHO correctly so - why not bringing this particular case - namely on 1.3 - to court?

From statement of the original case:
Quote
1. This is an action for copyright infringement, trademark infringement, unfair
competition, breach of contract, and declaratory and injunctive relief under the United States
Copyright Act of 1976, as amended, 17 U.S.C. § 101, et seq., the Lanham Act, 15 U.S.C. § 1119
and § 1125(a), based inter alia on Defendant’s unlawful appropriation, exploitation, and
commercial distribution and use of Plaintiff’s AMIGA Kickstart ROM, Version 1.3 computer
code (hereinafter “Kickstart 1.3”),

Just curious. Who told you this was never a part of the lawsuits?

#6