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Offline Lionheart

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Re: Very hard to understand
« Reply #59 on: March 11, 2015, 02:53:32 AM »
Quote from: Tripitaka;786164
Providing it's not the OS4 umbrella as you clearly don't like that one. Well, nothing like a nice bit of exclusivity to bring us all together right.


OS4 has no future.  It's tied to expensive hardware, which it can barely support.  It makes no sense to spend $3000 just to run Hyperion's OS4 as it's not that impressive to begin with.   Once again, try to convince someone outside the Amiga cult-like mentality to buy a $3000 computer with 10+ year old technology to run an operating system like OS4 when they can buy a more useful and more powerful computer running Windows or MacOS for less than half that price.
 

Offline apsturkTopic starter

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Re: Very hard to understand
« Reply #60 on: March 11, 2015, 03:26:49 AM »
Quote from: matthey;786161
Was that before or after the Hyperion bankrupsy announcement? You also forgot to mention Timberwolf, based on Firefox v4, which should be out soon after Firefox v40. Sorry, I couldn't resist. I wouldn't go much by announcements or dates in the perpetual Amiga time warp world of "just two more weeks" :D.
O yes I know what you mean for sure. One of the reasons I jumped in was that A-Eon has delivered on everything that said they would do. Life is a big chance and I am betting on them and some others. If I am wrong so be it.
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Offline apsturkTopic starter

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Re: Very hard to understand
« Reply #61 on: March 11, 2015, 03:29:51 AM »
@Lionheast

That doesn't expand the userbase, it just gives the existing base something to collect

By definition it sure does.

&
Once again, try to convince someone outside the Amiga cult-like mentality to buy a $3000 computer with 10+ year old technology to run an operating system like OS4 when they can buy a more useful and more powerful computer running Windows or MacOS for less than half that price

You are chatting with that person now, me!
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Offline ChaosLord

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Re: Very hard to understand
« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2015, 04:10:34 AM »
Dear apsturk,

Please chat with the YAM coder and send him a $200.00 bribe to add IMAP and the other feature you need.
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
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English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline matthey

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Re: Very hard to understand
« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2015, 04:11:32 AM »
Quote from: apsturk;786169
O yes I know what you mean for sure. One of the reasons I jumped in was that A-Eon has delivered on everything that said they would do. Life is a big chance and I am betting on them and some others. If I am wrong so be it.


I agree that A-Eon has been better at delivering on promises than Hyperion and most other Amiga businesses. They seem to have more (financial) resources than most which helps get things done. You are at least one new Amiga user which is a positive. We need more than the few hundred new Amiga users which expensive hardware will bring, a less divided Amiga community and stable professional parent companies to attract outside users and development. All of these are problems. You must be a real optimist to have looked at the current Amiga situation from the outside  and think it looks good :).
 

Offline amigasociety

Re: Very hard to understand
« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2015, 04:26:18 AM »
I am also a new Amiga OS user that had zero interest in amiga back in 2010 and thanks to A-Eon, I was one of the 1st in USA for buy a X1000 FC system and still to this day own and use it.  Rolling with all the good and bad ever since enjoying the Amiga experience.  There are more out there that some may believe.  

TJ
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Offline agami

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Re: Very hard to understand
« Reply #65 on: March 11, 2015, 07:19:02 AM »
A-Eon delivered on their promises? Talk about selective memory.
The thing was supposed to come out in July of 2010 to coincide with the 25th anniversary of the Amiga 1000 release. Instead it arrives 18 months late and only partially functional with a moniker of First Contact.

Meanwhile, no Xorro add-ons and still not fully functional. Just sayin' is all.
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Offline Tripitaka

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Re: Very hard to understand
« Reply #66 on: March 11, 2015, 10:23:17 AM »
Quote from: Lionheart;786167
OS4 has no future.  It's tied to expensive hardware, which it can barely support.  It makes no sense to spend $3000 just to run Hyperion's OS4 as it's not that impressive to begin with.   Once again, try to convince someone outside the Amiga cult-like mentality to buy a $3000 computer with 10+ year old technology to run an operating system like OS4 when they can buy a more useful and more powerful computer running Windows or MacOS for less than half that price.


You are of course entitled to your opinion. I don't give a fug what that opinion is of course as I'm op[en to all Amiga flavors. My point was you just can't say that we should all work together and then choose who to include like that. That's just a hypocrisy.

Oh, and as for making no sense to spend $3000 on a computer etc... Does it make sense to buy an IDE controller for $70 or a 50MHz CPU for hundreds? Certainly not to anyone outside the Amiga community you speak of. If you don't like OS4 or the X1000 just don't buy them. Just as you have a choice so does everyone else. Excluding sub-groups within the Amiga community does not help anyone, not MOS users, not AROS users, not OS4 users.
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Offline wawrzon

Re: Very hard to understand
« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2015, 10:27:13 AM »
Quote from: apsturk;786169
O yes I know what you mean for sure. One of the reasons I jumped in was that A-Eon has delivered on everything that said they would do.


aeon has been delivering on hardware atleast in one case so far, namely they delivered x1k. though they delivered it with a lot at least questionable or misleading tags, like the price that went up through the roof while it has been advertised, xorro ("you will tell use what to do with it"), multicore support, 3d and other goodies that should have been included in os4.2, now likely never to come, they even put some printing on board resembling the genuine machines and tried to make it look a bit like it could be called "amiga x1000" which the customers willingly did, of course. so if i was aeon customer today i would certainly feel not to be delivered what was promised, whether it is their fault or not.

other than that i cant see what much has been delivered. libre office, warp3d, the simple chip audio decoder they like to advertise as a "sound card", all that in a queue since ever with quartal announcements about everything almost ready and other announcements to be made in half a year. so far they bought up some genuine software, to fill up the app?-store a bit, but hard to guess what to do with it, except some changes to make it run under os4 and cosmetics hardly making it better.

Quote
Life is a big chance and I am betting on them and some others. If I am wrong so be it.


well. i wish you luck but considering my years long observation i doubt you bet on a right thing. but lets see in a year, in the meantime what do you intend to achieve with this thread if you are content? its hard to expect, there is a bunch of unemployed but very gifted developers reding this fora, who just did not realized yet, what they could do for you, especially if you paid them some xk$ for, lets say an imap mail client.
 

Offline Thorham

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Re: Very hard to understand
« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2015, 03:38:53 PM »
Quote from: Tripitaka;786184
Oh, and as for making no sense to spend $3000 on a computer etc... Does it make sense to buy an IDE controller for $70 or a 50MHz CPU for hundreds?
Exactly. Does it make sense to not buy something that you're going to enjoy if you can afford it?
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: Very hard to understand
« Reply #69 on: March 11, 2015, 04:33:07 PM »
Quote from: agami;786166
Because I'm not an Amiga hobbyist, duh.

And your answer is a bounty?! Really?! If that ain't a wait for a train that don't come.
The reason it would be nigh on impossible to raise $10,000 for something like a solid up-to-date email client would be because y'all are happy with your YAMs and your SimpleMails. Y'all have become too content with the lack of quantity and quality of software available on the hobby platform.
apsturk points this out and all y'all can do is say, "try YAM" or "SimpleMail works fine for me", i.e. "Try something older and less functional", or "The problem must be with you". That my friends is what a content group sounds like.

You might have also tried:
"Just use webmail"
"No one uses a desktop for email anymore, get a smartphone"
"Reinstall everything and try again"
"Maybe the problem is with your IMAP provider"

And as far as sales of the yet to be released X5000 and X3500, I'm willing to bet the porting of a Linux email client that 75% of individuals that buy those are X1000 owners. Not that they'll actually release sales and market figures.


it sounds not like a "content" group but a "realistic" group. For many years you can no longer earn money with developing amiga software (last remainders of the former commercial market vanished in about 2001) so we have what we have and all development is done by programmers in their spare time, in most cases for no money. The request sounded like "I have spend a professional amount of money on the hardware so I now expect professional software". *Whisper* a small secret, the developers have got nothing of the money, most got Varisys and then Aeon and Amigakit. If he wants to get new features then best would be to contact the active developers and ask for features and make a donation or make a bounty and a donation or do it himself. Sitting and saying "I would buy it if it would be not such crap" (it sounded like that) is hardly motivating anyone. He should know better.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: Very hard to understand
« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2015, 04:41:26 PM »
Quote from: apsturk;786170
@Lionheast

That doesn't expand the userbase, it just gives the existing base something to collect

By definition it sure does.

&
Once again, try to convince someone outside the Amiga cult-like mentality to buy a $3000 computer with 10+ year old technology to run an operating system like OS4 when they can buy a more useful and more powerful computer running Windows or MacOS for less than half that price

You are chatting with that person now, me!


Nobody is forced to buy the expensive hardware. It is (and was) no secret what you get and there were enough threads with "troll" discussions where people exactly said that. That AmigaOS has basically the same software as the other camps is no real secret either so I am a little wondering what you are now discussing about. If you want a existing version improved with certain feature(s) then get in contact with active devs then show your interest and make perhaps a donation. To put the software in mud is not really helping and saying "I would buy something if it is not such crap" is not helping either. Brandnew commercial quality applications for 1000-2000 users will not happen and paid work is unrealistic (except everyone would pay hundreds of dollars for it). So live with what is there and show support there or leave it.
 

Offline danbeaver

Re: Very hard to understand
« Reply #71 on: March 11, 2015, 05:04:29 PM »
Hmm, sounds like Yam and SimpleMail are not as full featured as you would like
 

Offline Lionheart

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Re: Very hard to understand
« Reply #72 on: March 11, 2015, 06:01:52 PM »
Quote from: Tripitaka;786184
You are of course entitled to your opinion. I don't give a fug what that opinion is of course as I'm op[en to all Amiga flavors. My point was you just can't say that we should all work together and then choose who to include like that. That's just a hypocrisy.


Speaking of hypocrisy, how open were you to CUSA?  

Quote from: Tripitaka;786184
CUSA to me is just some shoddy company that rapes the Amiga name for profit and does nothing to advance real Amiga's at all.
Source: http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=669446

Funny you could say the same thing about A-Eon, ACube, and Hyperion, whose only real accomplishment has been giving the community a proprietary platform running a PowerPC processor with a dead end road map.  And how many developers do you think are willing to invest $3,000 to develop software for a system few people own let alone can afford?  

Quote from: Tripitaka;786184
Oh, and as for making no sense to spend $3000 on a computer etc... Does it make sense to buy an IDE controller for $70 or a 50MHz CPU for hundreds? Certainly not to anyone outside the Amiga community you speak of. If you don't like OS4 or the X1000 just don't buy them. Just as you have a choice so does everyone else. Excluding sub-groups within the Amiga community does not help anyone, not MOS users, not AROS users, not OS4 users.


Spending $70 on a hobby is one thing.  Spending $3000 on a computer, which is suppose to be more than a collector's item, is another.  If A-Eon and Acube's sole reason for existing is to provide expensive computers with outdated technology to satisfy the fanatics in the community, they'll eventually cease to exist.
 

Offline Tripitaka

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Re: Very hard to understand
« Reply #73 on: March 11, 2015, 08:42:20 PM »
Quote from: Lionheart;786202
Speaking of hypocrisy, how open were you to CUSA?  


That's no hypocrisy as CUSA never made any real Amiga products. Yeah they said they would support AROS but did they? I don't seem to recall them actually doing it. Nor do I recall them making any Amiga compatible ... well, anything. In fact all they did was use the Amiga name.

Oh, just for the record, from my own point of view I include all Amiga OS's from Commodore proper, Hyperion, the MorphOS team and the AROS guys, any Amiga emulators and any Amiga specific hardware from Catweasel  to the X1000 as "Amiga products". I'm not anti anyone who makes anything Amiga related but ripping the name to sell Atom based Linux boxes was just wrong.

Quote
If A-Eon and Acube's sole reason for existing is to provide expensive computers with outdated technology to satisfy the fanatics in the community, they'll eventually cease to exist.


Well that's not really your problem now is it? If you are not interested in the products they make why does this even concern you? Now before you dig a big hole for yourself, some of those "fanatics in the community" are the very people who are doing real work developing Amiga software. All Amiga flavors benefit from porting between themselves. Without OS4 you will have less, not more.

If, as I suspect, you think we would achieve more by all getting behind one flavor in particular and maybe get some kind of mass appeal again then you are of course quite deluded. I've no doubt that we would all love to see any Amiga OS on top but it's not going to happen. Perhaps if someone had several hundred million and decided to build an FPGA memristor (mrFPGA) based home computer that used an Amigalike OS then perhaps that could happen but frankly I don't see any other tech out there that is radical enough to cut into the market place and re-establish the Amiga as a popular home platform oozing power and elegance other than that, so don't get your hopes up.
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Offline danbeaver

Re: Very hard to understand
« Reply #74 from previous page: March 11, 2015, 08:47:52 PM »
Quote from: matthey;786161
Was that before or after the Hyperion bankrupsy announcement? You also forgot to mention Timberwolf, based on Firefox v4, which should be .
Bankruptcy?