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Author Topic: just saw the worrying Poseidon news  (Read 18470 times)

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Offline lempkee

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Re: just saw the worrying Poseidon news
« Reply #74 from previous page: November 19, 2003, 01:34:45 PM »
t_bone: aint you out of line now? , it seems you never owned a elbox product oh and that comment about 12 usb standards , well there will be atleast 2 from now on or maybe i should say 1 since Poseidon is obviously only for E3b products and this is yet another example of what went wrong with p96/cgx , pup/wup etc.

i am atleast 110% sure i wont by any hw from e3b until i know for sure it wont do my setup any harm, and for that i need to wait for mediator updates which should come pretty soon i guess.

i know that it works with the drivers we have now, but what happens with the next updates, lets see and as i said i wont buy anything before i know.

i simply dislike all of this thread, it shows what monopolism is and how its done and now it seems elbox is willing to play a mudfight against e3b and Ch , i dont take any side of this but i am not willingly giving up my mediator with the hw around it just because of some cry babies in both camps.

this is simply STUPID! and i hope elbox never will do this.
Whats up with all the hate!
 

Offline xeron

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Re: just saw the worrying Poseidon news
« Reply #75 on: November 19, 2003, 01:48:15 PM »
Quote

Rassilon wrote:
(when no one had accidently activated the anti-piracy code)


This is impossible to prove since the person wouldn't know that the Elbox software was the culprit.
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Offline lempkee

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Re: just saw the worrying Poseidon news
« Reply #76 on: November 19, 2003, 01:58:07 PM »
xeron:well i normally dont loose my rdbs , last time i ever did so was maybe 3 years ago, and i have been a spider user for quite a while, and a mediator user for longer.

and to prove what did it if it happened, how can you prove it was elboxs code that did it then? and not something from some anti elbox people maybe?.

sorry but i am really fed up here atm.

Whats up with all the hate!
 

Offline Rassilon

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Re: just saw the worrying Poseidon news
« Reply #77 on: November 19, 2003, 02:48:26 PM »
@T_Bone

Quote
Even when the whole trojan incident happened, Chris *could* have walked away from the contract, but he didn't, he asked them to apologise, which was a VERY easy thing to do for Elbox. Chris didn't even have to do that. Elbox had a way out, a damned easy one at that, and didn't take it.


I think you should look up the meaning of the word trojan, as it doesn't describe Elbox's anti-piracy code.

We both know why Elbox did not appologise
- They didn't believe what they did was wrong, after all they were trying to safegaurd their investment.
- Apologising is admission of guilt leaving them open to being sued.

Now I'm not saying that what they did was right, but they removed the code from the driver, the code that was the cause of CH concern. THERE problem solved, any further requests were for his own gratification.

If one person can come forward with the legitimate and proveable occurence of the Elbox code going awry (without them hacking it!) then we may start to get somewhere. But until then there is no point in Elbox appologising for something that as far as we know hasn't happened.

Rassilon
Yes it is a dodgy picture, but what do you expect from a mobile phone camera!!

Oh yeah and I own an A1200T/060 with Mediator etc and an A1G3SE
 

Offline xeron

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Re: just saw the worrying Poseidon news
« Reply #78 on: November 19, 2003, 02:55:57 PM »
Quote

lempkee wrote:
xeron:well i normally dont loose my rdbs


Neither do I. I'm not saying it happens all the time. Far from it. I'm just saying that you can't say its never happened, because its just not possible to say either way.

Quote

and to prove what did it if it happened, how can you prove it was elboxs code that did it then?


I'm not saying it is or isn't possible to figure out what killed your RDB. My only points are:

1. Elbox were wrong to include the code. It was illegal, and it was wrong. What if due to human error the checking code was broken in a future update (had the code been left in there)?

2. Nobody can say that the code has or has not been triggered by accident. It has almost certainly never ever happened, but people DO get struck by lighning and people DO win the lottery. It could have been triggered, but the person won't know what happened. All they'd know is that their hard disk stopped working.

Elbox are supposed to have removed the code now, but their reputation in my eyes is tarnished by the whole affair.
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Offline xeron

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Re: just saw the worrying Poseidon news
« Reply #79 on: November 19, 2003, 02:58:38 PM »
Quote

Rassilon wrote:
But until then there is no point in Elbox appologising for something that as far as we know hasn't happened.


He wasn't asking them to apologise for the code triggering, he was asking them to apologise for the codes existance, which is known and proven. I think Chris' problem was Elbox maintaining that they had done nothing wrong.
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Offline Rassilon

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Re: just saw the worrying Poseidon news
« Reply #80 on: November 19, 2003, 03:20:29 PM »
Hi Xeron,

you wrote:

Quote
He wasn't asking them to apologise for the code triggering, he was asking them to apologise for the codes existance, which is known and proven. I think Chris' problem was Elbox maintaining that they had done nothing wrong.

I understand that, and I wrote in a previous message they won't do that because it would leave them open to legal action.

As I said before I don't condone their practise, but I understand why they did it, and as far as we know no-one has been a victim of it. (Yes it would be very difficult to prove anyway)

But I know that you have developed lots of software, so you should have experienced the odd developmental crash  ;-) has any triggered the elbox code to your knowledge?

I think its highly unlikely that anyone could trigger it unknowingly without resorting to unscroupulous means.

I just don't see why the public appology was such a big thing to CH.

Rassilon
Yes it is a dodgy picture, but what do you expect from a mobile phone camera!!

Oh yeah and I own an A1200T/060 with Mediator etc and an A1G3SE
 

Offline xeron

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Re: just saw the worrying Poseidon news
« Reply #81 on: November 19, 2003, 03:25:22 PM »
Quote

Rassilon wrote:
and as far as we know no-one has been a victim of it. (Yes it would be very difficult to prove anyway)


Aaaarrghh... That whole point is irrelevent since it doesn't excuse the code, and its impossible to prove either way. Stop bringing that up as if it makes it ok! THAT is the thing that bothers me.

Quote

has any triggered the elbox code to your knowledge?


Whats that got to do with anything?

Quote

I think its highly unlikely that anyone could trigger it unknowingly without resorting to unscroupulous means.


I know. I agree. This does not excuse its existance.

Quote

I just don't see why the public appology was such a big thing to CH.


I think he just wanted them to admit they were wrong.
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Offline AmiGR

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Re: just saw the worrying Poseidon news
« Reply #82 on: November 19, 2003, 03:37:08 PM »
Look, if anyone's machine was ####ed and and had
sensitive, not recoverable, data in it and he got pissed off, he could have sued Elbox AND Chris.
Chris would have to proove that he was innocent in
court. He eventually would get out of it but would be
harmed by the costs of the lawsuit.
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Offline AmiGR

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Re: just saw the worrying Poseidon news
« Reply #83 on: November 19, 2003, 03:40:40 PM »
1) He did not switch off anything. You can still use the version YOU BOUGHT THE KEY FOR!
2) There was never a real agreement with Elbox.
BTW, do you have any explainations to the earlier
#### Elbox pulled on companies?
VFD, the P96 team, Hyperion? No? Too bad...
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Offline AmiGR

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Re: just saw the worrying Poseidon news
« Reply #84 on: November 19, 2003, 03:44:04 PM »
Now I'm not saying that this is the same situation, but look at the last time Elbox had a contract with a driver supplier.... CGFX..... and look what happened, another company nullified there contract by arranging an exclusive contract.
--

They had NO contract with VFD...
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Offline Rassilon

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Re: just saw the worrying Poseidon news
« Reply #85 on: November 19, 2003, 03:56:07 PM »
Hi Xeron,

as I said in my previous posts I don't condone their methods.

I just understand why they wanted to include an anti-piracy deterrent, and why they haven't appologised ie.e legal problems

With regard to whether you had managed to trigger the code through programming experiments accidentaly  - I was trying to show that if a programmer (who by nature would have more crashes than a normal user) hasn't triggered the code, then it would be highly unlikely that a user could.

Rassilon
Yes it is a dodgy picture, but what do you expect from a mobile phone camera!!

Oh yeah and I own an A1200T/060 with Mediator etc and an A1G3SE
 

Offline Rassilon

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Re: just saw the worrying Poseidon news
« Reply #86 on: November 19, 2003, 03:58:56 PM »
Quote

by AmiGR on 2003/11/19 15:44:04
They had NO contract with VFD...


Well thats untrue. Elbox provided Frank Mariak with an A1200 tower complete with Mediator, Voodoo3 card and development docs. They did that because they had a contract. I don't know whether it was written or verbal, I imagine it was written (as in email)

Rassilon
Yes it is a dodgy picture, but what do you expect from a mobile phone camera!!

Oh yeah and I own an A1200T/060 with Mediator etc and an A1G3SE
 

Offline platon42

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Re: just saw the worrying Poseidon news
« Reply #87 on: November 19, 2003, 04:37:42 PM »
@Rassilon
>I understand your concern over the anti-piracy code, but as it was removed by Elbox that should have been the end of the issue. Your insistance of a public apology, (when no one had accidently activated the anti-piracy code) was unecessary, and a poor excuse for removing support.

Actually, if you have truely read the soap opera, the stop of registrations was NOT an issue about apologies for the RDB issue (except for implicitely calling me a liar), but their denial to clearly state on their websites and advertisments that the software necessary to use the Spider card (Poseidon USB Stack) is NOT shipped with the Spider and is NOT registered, thus potential buyers being maliciously deceived (and me getting mails from angry users). Moreover, they were promoting their product with the features that it does not have per se, but only with Poseidon installed. In fact, they copy & pasted the poseidon feature list. I told them to remove it (copyright violation). They denied it. They treated me like sh*t. They even claimed that they did not need a registered copy of Poseidon to develop their drivers, thus never registered it. Stopping the registration process was my only way to attract attention to this issue. The only thing that eventually would hurt them. Unfortunately, I was wrong: These bunch of [insert your favourite word here] did not stop selling the Spider or deliver their own product, but actively continued to promote it, intentionally not mentioning that registrations have ceased. They just don't care what happens to the user, as long as they can sell their stuff.

So, as the users kept supporting Elb*x and their exceptional moral concepts, things will change again soon.
--
Regards, Chris Hodges )-> http://www.platon42.de <-(
hackerkey://v4sw7CJS$hw6/7ln6pr7+8AOP$ck0ma8u2LMw1/4Xm5l3i5TJCOTextPad/e7t2BDMNb7GHLen5a34s5IMr1g3/5ACM
 

Offline Rassilon

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Re: just saw the worrying Poseidon news
« Reply #88 on: November 19, 2003, 04:59:09 PM »
@Chris Hodges

What confuses me in this matter, is that you went along with their bundling option for a good while before you requested that they highlight the unregistered nature of the version of poseidon that was available.

If I was being cynical I would ask why it suited you originally but not now?

As for using the feature list, while again I can understand you wanting to protect your property, their marketing of the spider was netting YOU registrations. So you shot yourself in the foot?!?

If they were to market the Spider card as- A USB2 card - it wouldn't sell many because it doesn't mention any benefits.

By marketing the card with the featurelist of the available USB stack it seems much more attractive. So why would you want Elbox to sell fewer Spider cards? It would mean you get less registrations. It doesn't seem (on the surface at least) to add up.

Rassilon
Yes it is a dodgy picture, but what do you expect from a mobile phone camera!!

Oh yeah and I own an A1200T/060 with Mediator etc and an A1G3SE
 

Offline AmiGR

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Re: just saw the worrying Poseidon news
« Reply #89 on: November 19, 2003, 05:15:08 PM »
They had a verbal agreement, not something remotely as bining as a contract. DCE offered him
a contract to do something under payment and he
accepted it.
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