real amiga vs winuae

[hooligan]

I was asking you to prove your statement: these "unique amiga advantages" are ancient history and has no use whatsoever in todays computing.

This was just a speculation on your part.

I was not speculating. I was telling a cold hard fact. Let's turn it all around, if AmigaOS has so much good in it and is so superior in so many areas, why it hasn't found even a nichemarket for itself, while many OS-projects that started later with less to begin with has succeeded in some way? Partly its of course by bad management (lightly said) but theres something else to it: time. Time has passed, needs have changed. Even if there was plenty of hardware at decent prices it still wouldn't help AmigaOS to rise from the pit it sunk itself years back.

To get back to topic, this is why I think emulation is the way to go, especially because of the superb emulation WinUAE provides. It's a simple and costeffective way for many people to hobby Amiga and keep even some attachment to it, and still do the important things with proper tools. Not to mention those who really WANT to use AmigaOS, but can't be arsed to buy uberexpensive underpowered hardware.

[jkirk]

They found web browsing, email, Office, dvd playback, mp3 and divx playback, banking, youtube was not that different on the old machine. And Win98Se was just as responsive as Vista if not more so.

web browsing?? youtube?? email?? banking?? these are influenced more by connection speed not os performance.

dvd playback?? divx?? these are dependent on vid card drivers/codecs moreso than anything else.

mp3?? this is dependent on the efficiency of the codec.

 

Thats most of the stuff people do.

most?? i don't think so.
it is just a portion of what people use a computer for. i myself use mine as a video recording system as well as dvd playback.
i have another system for gaming, vid editing, web browsing, database operations etc.

 

I would have thought on an Amiga forum, people might question why things on the PC are still the way they are.

because they aren't in the realm of being fixed by an os. sure you can optimize some of these and make it better but there will never be a fix per se.

ie is made my microsoft they have full control over the software but not the internet.
codecs are made by third parties and are limited by the available hardware. microsoft has tweaked the interface to improve performance but the actual codec/hardware problem remains.

as for loading times windows(as i said before) has deliberate timers that slow down it's operation to give a consistant feel with previous versions of the os. also the added features in the os also slow down loading time.

aos has no timers of this sort so it feels faster despite slower hardware.

like i said before try playing the pc version of a D&D gold box game in windows if you want to see why timers were implemented in windows.
this game was dos based iirc and uses no timers either internal or in windows. tho using dosbox may slow it down enough to be playable(with animations at proper speed.

[jj]

Timers that slow the OS loading down on purpose.  Who in theirr right mind would do that.  You would want to make your OS as fast as possible.

[Karlos]

Timers that slow the OS loading down on purpose.  Who in theirr right mind would do that.  You would want to make your OS as fast as possible.

For GUIs this is not a stupid idea at all. Having the UI flash up things as fast as possible and hide them again (eg, rolling over menu options and having the submenu attached flicker in and out of view) is actually a really bad idea for the end user, psychologically speaking.

[ElPolloDiabl]

Here's something cut and pasted from another forum:


Versions of Windows;

Windows Trial - Only allows you to run one program, expires after 30 days, can't be upgraded, no networking code included, doesn't allow multiple users.

Windows Preview - Only allows you to run one program, no networking code included, doesn't allow multiple users.

Windows Basic - Allows running unlimited number of programs, no networking code included, doesn't allow multiple users.

Windows Networking Trial - Same as Windows Trial, but includes networking code.

Windows Networking Preview - Same as Windows Preview, but includes networking code.

Windows Networking Basic - Same as Windows Basic, but includes networking code.

Windows Multi-User Trial - Same as Windows Trial, but allows up to 3 users.

Windows Multi-User Preview - Same as Windows Preview, but allows up to 3 users.

Windows Multi-User Basic - Same as Windows Basic, but allows up to 3 users.

Windows Multi-User Networking Trial - Same as Windows Networking Trial, but allows up to 3 users.

Windows Multi-User Networking Preview - Same as Windows Networking Preview, but allows up to 3 users.

Windows Multi-User Networking Basic - Same as Windows Networking Basic, but allows up to 3 users.

Windows Pro Trial - Same as Windows Multi-User Trial, but allows unlimited users.

Windows Pro Preview - Same as Windows Multi-User Preview, but allows unlimited users.

Windows Pro Basic - Same as Windows Multi-User Basic, but allows unlimited users.

Windows Pro Networking Trial - Same as Windows Multi-User Networking Trial, but allows unlimited users.

Windows Pro Networking Preview - Same as Windows Multi-User Networking Preview, but allows unlimited users.

Windows Pro Networking Basic - Same as Windows Multi-User Networking Basic, but allows unlimited users.

[jj]

For GUIs this is not a stupid idea at all. Having the UI flash up things as fast as possible and hide them again (eg, rolling over menu options and having the submenu attached flicker in and out of view) is actually a really bad idea for the end user, psychologically speaking.

 
For things like GUI etc then this makes sense.  Cant see how it ccould ever make sense for loading of the OS or the speed of backgroundd processes

[amigaksi]

I was not speculating. I was telling a cold hard fact. Let's turn it all around, if AmigaOS has so much good in it and is so superior in so many areas, why it hasn't found even a nichemarket for itself, while many OS-projects that started later with less to begin with has succeeded in some way? Partly its of course by bad management (lightly said) but theres something else to it: time. Time has passed, needs have changed. Even if there was plenty of hardware at decent prices it still wouldn't help AmigaOS to rise from the pit it sunk itself years back.

To get back to topic, this is why I think emulation is the way to go, especially because of the superb emulation WinUAE provides. It's a simple and costeffective way for many people to hobby Amiga and keep even some attachment to it, and still do the important things with proper tools. Not to mention those who really WANT to use AmigaOS, but can't be arsed to buy uberexpensive underpowered hardware.

You didn't answer the point and just made a declaration that it's a "cold hard fact".  I wasn't speaking of the OS.  You are PC-fanatic so obviously, you prefer people use emulators on PCs than Amiga hardware.  But I guess you can go one step further and state that it's better to use PC native mode for a particular software than emulated version since it's more efficient, but I guess first you want them to start using PC hardware.

[jkirk]

For things like GUI etc then this makes sense.  Cant see how it ccould ever make sense for loading of the OS or the speed of backgroundd processes

well in the loading of an os if you loaded everything at once it would be fast however to prevent one service with a dependency from opening before another that fills the dependancy you have to have a systematic loading of each module. aka if the os opened full on you would see a plethora of crashes. as such they open then as fast as possible without causing such a conflict.

[amigaksi]

that's an easy question: Windows is SO SLOW and bloated because users are stupid: People is educated to use scumm. They don't notice/care.
...

Most of the audience for Windows is non-technical so the OS that becomes slower and slower gradually by using it can't be blamed on users.  It has to be blamed on the OS since that's a major point they missed in all the upgrades they keep offering.  

As far as shut-down, I know for older Windows I used to tell people to just turn off the power but now with hard disk accesses going on almost constantly, you have to tell them to shut-down from the start menu.  If they do turn it off, it increases their boot-up time since the disk checks hog up a minute or so (and 99% of the time they find nothing).

[Woobagong]

Thinking of booting... I remember the startup-sequence on my Amigas.

I was always asking myself why the Amiga was booting faster with slower hardware. On the Windows PC I always felt as if very much stuff gets started at the same time. The Harddisk is more or less a sequential device, so if programs and services get started concurrently this should explain the constantly burning HDD LED on PC's. The disk is not used in a very wise manner!

The Amiga instead started everything as a sequence, the disk had not to switch back and forth between many locations of programs like it seems to happen on a PC. So... if a PC would boot in a sequencial manner, the boot time would come down a lot, just because there are so many seeks left out.

Does anyone know if my theory has the true of it? I am not completely sure if the Amiga was starting programs really as a sequence during boot time.

[jkirk]

Thinking of booting... I remember the startup-sequence on my Amigas.

I was always asking myself why the Amiga was booting faster with slower hardware. On the Windows PC I always felt as if very much stuff gets started at the same time. The Harddisk is more or less a sequential device, so if programs and services get started concurrently this should explain the constantly burning HDD LED on PC's. The disk is not used in a very wise manner!

The Amiga instead started everything as a sequence, the disk had not to switch back and forth between many locations of programs like it seems to happen on a PC. So... if a PC would boot in a sequencial manner, the boot time would come down a lot, just because there are so many seeks left out.

Does anyone know if my theory has the true of it? I am not completely sure if the Amiga was starting programs really as a sequence during boot time.

no i remember on my amiga that tho they were started sequentially they would load simultaneously as a result in your statup sequence if you had something that needed loading before another component you had to put that program as high in the sequence as possible or call a seperate script that put the startup on hold till the program was fully loaded.

basically the startup sequence was a list of programs to load but it did not necessarily wait till that program finished loading before going to the next on the list.

for more info on the windows startup sequence.

[Woobagong]

Ok, so the Windows PC just starts a lot more stuff which slows the system even more down. It could also be, that even if every program would wait for the other until completely loaded, the boot time would be even longer.

No wonder NCQ SATA Disks were developed. These Disks sort out those wild seeks and try to execute them as sequencial as possible.

But hey, funk that disks. Lets go SSD and hope the live as long as a HDD or even longer, fingers crossed. :afro:

[hooligan]

You didn't answer the point and just made a declaration that it's a "cold hard fact".  I wasn't speaking of the OS.  You are PC-fanatic so obviously, you prefer people use emulators on PCs than Amiga hardware.  But I guess you can go one step further and state that it's better to use PC native mode for a particular software than emulated version since it's more efficient, but I guess first you want them to start using PC hardware.

Me? PC-Fanatic? :-)

Been Amigist for almost 20 years, longtime Pegasos1 and 2 owner (which I sadly had to sell as I was going bankcrupt) and on top of that I am still moderating at Morphzone.org, been since it was born. You better come up with something else than that bull, mate

[amigaksi]

Me? PC-Fanatic? :-)

Been Amigist for almost 20 years, longtime Pegasos1 and 2 owner (which I sadly had to sell as I was going bankcrupt) and on top of that I am still moderating at Morphzone.org, been since it was born. You better come up with something else than that bull, mate

Your behavior was that of a PC-fanatic.  Not familiar with Pegasos-- does that have amiga h/w or just all software emulation?

[koaftder]

Your behavior was that of a PC-fanatic.  Not familiar with Pegasos-- does that have amiga h/w or just all software emulation?

[jkirk]

Your behavior was that of a PC-fanatic.  Not familiar with Pegasos-- does that have amiga h/w or just all software emulation?

lol no the pegasos 1 & 2  is a next gen board as was the a1 and sam.
they ran morphos and linux, tho i think aos 4.1 is available for the pegasos 2