Rebol for MorphOS

[SHADES]

@downix
Oh a different angle now?
>>There are folk out there running AmigaOS without a single Commodore designed library.
What, Linux? or are we talking MOrph OS now lol

I agree, I have friends who run Windows and there is not 1 single Commodore Libray in that, infact it's even called Microsoft Windows. Yup even people who run Linux on the AMIGA classic Hardware, that's not AMIGa either though is it?, that's Linux.  If I was able to run Windows on my classic AMIGA hardware, would I be using AMIGA? Would it be an AMIGA or just another WINDOWS box?

I know lots of differnt libraries for Windows that ar not Windows libraries, how about Linux ones I'm sure we could go on.

It's quite simple. MorphOs is in direct competition with AMIGA Os. It's an alternative to the AMIGA OS and it is being offered as such.
It is not AMIGA Os, it has nver claimed to be AMIGA OS, it is offering another opperating system to use INSTEAD of AMIGA OS.  It is claiming to have a similar "feel" to that of AMIGA OS. I guess BE could be considered to "feel" like only the best bits of M$ Windows opperating system, but it's not Windows, it's BE. Pointless.

Even your 3rd party libraries and programs that enhance the AMIGA OS still have to run on it's foundation. Directory Opus runs under Windows now, but that doesn't make it "Opus opperating system"

If the 3rd party "enhancements" Don't run under AMIGA os enviroment, they crash. or fail to work or if they change the code, then they could be labled as a trancoder, or emulator.

Easy to draw the line. Morph OS is an Alternative, that's what it is, it's not the AMIGA OS, nor does it pretend to be. It is in direct competition with the AMIGA OS, and having Carl S brought in is just another blow to the already dented AMIGA OS community.

[downix]

@Shades

And what about components that replace that foundation, such as a replacement exec.library?  Where do you draw the line?

[gary_c]

That's a pointless statement. If you were to define AMIGA as commodore then it's already dead.

No, I'm not defining Amiga as Commodore: I said "progressions of the classic Commodore Amiga." By that I mean things that have evolved from the old platform.

 

f we are still discussing MorphOS It's not a progression of the original classic platform at all it's another opperating system.

Sure it's a progression. Have you used MorphOS on a Pegasos? The lineage is undeniable. Yes, it's also another operating system. For all intents and purposes, AOS4 is also another operating system, relative to 68xxx AmigaOS. Isn't the goal to have it all PowerPC-native? Is it *a good thing* to have the old 68xxx code in there and have to have it running in emulation? The AOS4 developers are working like mad to get away from the old code and here you are trying to hold on to it. ;-)

Sorry, but this is a classic case of valuing brand name over product qualities. That's your choice, though, so that's fine. But other people interpret things their own way. In this view *all* of these post-Commodore projects are descendants of the original in one way or another, because of the backgrounds of the people doing them (apart from the manufacturers of the AmigaOne hardware, anyway), the design goals, the "look-and-feel," the third-party developers, the end-users, etc. Trying to draw some artificial line down the middle of all of these based on an IP purchase just doesn't cut it.

To bring the developer of the AMIGA OS over to help make Morph OS is a kick in the teeth to AMIGA users.

Sorry you feel that way, but I imagine he'd also work with Amiga, Inc. or Hyperion if he was approached with a good plan. Maybe somebody should ask Fleecy.

However that doesn't make it AMIGA OS.

Nope. Nobody's saying it is. It's "Amiga-like." If you get a chance, try it out. You'll see how true that statement is. This question of is it or is it not "Amiga" will eventually fade away. It isn't even important or fun to think about anymore.

-- gary_c

[SHADES]

@downix
Well that depends, if you are talking about an update or rewrite like OS4, It's still there to run AMIGA OS and AMIGA OS software like the transition from Windows 3.1 to 9x series or NT. Nt meaning New Technolgy where a kernal is implimented. Much closer like exec.

It is not however an OS replacement like MorphOs is.
If your claiming that Morph Os is AMIGA OS, think again. If you replace the opperating system with completly new everyhting, it becomes that.

Linux on the AMIGA replaces EVERYTHING when running on the AMIGA, hence would be classed as a Linux Box no matter the hardware.  Running a complely new OS on AMIGA hardware for example, MorphOS makes it a MorphOS box . It's really not hard to define where it stops.

I will speak slowly. Morph OS is an a l t e r n a t i v  e  to the AMIGA OS, it is marketed as such. It is also in direct competition with AMIGA OS. If it was not, AI would have bout it and intergrated it into the OS that is AMIGA OS. They have not, and they have re-written the OS to what is now considered to be OS4. Exec is but a part of that. Tell me, re-compiling the kernal in Linux to run on or whereever, does that mean it is no longer Linux? No it does not. Many compilations of the kernal are developed for linux, I just did a build the other night with the latest revision.  Some different kernals break certain things, some support more or different. The OS remains.

Morph Os is not AMIGA OS, ask them if you don't believe me.

The lines are drawn and are clear.  The AMIGA OS is being updated and re-compiled and enhanced, it is still AMIGA OS, although it is compiled for a newer hardfware base now. i can run Linux on a sparc station too, is that now Sparc OS, no it's not.

[bloodline]

The lines are drawn and are clear. The AMIGA OS is being updated and re-compiled and enhanced, it is still AMIGA OS, although it is compiled for a newer hardfware base now. i can run Linux on a sparc station too, is that now Sparc OS, no it's not.

You really don't know what you are talking about.

I've asked people before NOT to enter into disscusions they do not understand. :-x

[DaveP]

@Matt

It would help an awful lot if you explained why he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Seemed like an accurate description of what is happening for the migration from AmigaOS3.x to AmigaOS4.x.

The poser at the end was an interesting one, and goes back into the done-to-death question of what makes an Amiga an Amiga ( apart from the stamp on the box ).

Dave.

[SHADES]

@bloodline
Says who?, you? where is you argument.
The disgussion may have gone slightly askew from the original topic, but something needed to be cleared up.
i was trying to explain that Morph OS is not AMIGA OS, that it is an Alternative OS to the AMIGA OS. It is marketed as such. An OS that does run AMIGA and copyed on it's roots would be called a clone or dervitive of the origonal. Like slackware is to RedHat.
All well and good to throw in your statement and I welcome it, but to just say blindly I can't describe what an OS is is really narrow. If my statements are so wrong, why don't you contribute in a positive way instead of slander, you think you're capable, jump on board and offer some constructive criticism.

 I have worked with computers from vic20 to spectrum and even built my own z80 machines from parts as hobby projects and programed them for simple tasks as well. I have ass dip in electronics, certificate in electrical engineering and I am completing study in comp sys engineering.
I think I may have some sort of a clue, well my education seems to say such. Oh did I mention I maintain systems for a very large communications company?
i find that your comment is only derogatory, not insightful or helpful. I don't know why you bother to post when it's putting people down. Have a nice day now won't you .

[SHADES]

@gary
>>
No, I'm not defining Amiga as Commodore: I said "progressions of the classic Commodore Amiga." By that I mean things that have evolved from the old platform.

Same with window? so? Windows runs on a multitude of platforms. Linux too.

>>Sorry, but this is a classic case of valuing brand name over product qualities. That's your choice, though, so that's fine. But other people interpret things their own way. In this view *all* of these post-Commodore projects are descendants of the original in one way or another, because of the backgrounds of the people doing them (apart from the manufacturers of the AmigaOne hardware, anyway), the design goals, the "look-and-feel," the third-party developers, the end-users, etc. Trying to draw some artificial line down the middle of all of these based on an IP purchase just doesn't cut it.

Sure it does, why do people use Windows.  Or why do people choose Coke over Pepsi. Brand name loyalty is very big buisness. Has a lot to do with succsess.

>>Sure it's a progression. Have you used MorphOS on a Pegasos? The lineage is undeniable. Yes, it's also another operating system. For all intents and purposes, AOS4 is also another operating system, relative to 68xxx AmigaOS. Isn't the goal to have it all PowerPC-native? Is it *a good thing* to have the old 68xxx code in there and have to have it running in emulation? The AOS4 developers are working like mad to get away from the old code and here you are trying to hold on to

Says who? I nver stated I was holding onto anything? I mearly state it is based on the foundations of the pervious classic OS. Who says they can't update it or run it even on a strong arm if they want. that's not 68000 code.

>>Sorry you feel that way, but I imagine he'd also work with Amiga, Inc. or Hyperion if he was approached with a good plan. Maybe somebody should ask Fleecy.

Given enough money, you're probably right. From last I heard AI was struggleing to stay afloat. Carl S has stated before he is interested in seeing where his "baby" has ended up.  He needs to take his future into account, perhaps the deal is better with Morph.


Where in the world did I say Morph shouldn't survive or isn't worthey, quote me again"there is plenty of room for other Os's"  But it's not AMIGA as you have said yourself (Nope. Nobody's saying it is. It's "Amiga-like." If you get a chance, try it out. You'll see how true that statement is. This question of is it or is it not "Amiga" will eventually fade away. It isn't even important or fun to think about anymore.)

I dissagee with your comment on importance. It is important, It is very important for the survival of the company with an OS that has changed the way people compute and spawned the ideas for other OS's.
If it fails, then people will have no choice but to go with another company. AMIGA OS will dissapear, just like GEM, OS2 etc........

[downix]

@Shades

By your logic against gary, we'd be long-dead.

Amiga, Inc is just a company.  If it goes under, oh well, life goes on.  It is not the end of the Amiga community, and possibly not of the OS itself.  If the OS vanishes, at least we have 2 remaining choices for a next-generation platform, MorphOS and AROS.  Why are you so stedfast on killing the community all for the sake of a company?

[SHADES]

@downix

>>By your logic against gary, we'd be long-dead.

>>Amiga, Inc is just a company. If it goes under, oh well, life goes on. It is not the end of the Amiga community, and possibly not of the OS itself. If the OS vanishes, at least we have 2 remaining choices for a next-generation platform, MorphOS and AROS. Why are you so stedfast on killing the community all for the sake of a company?

That's not true either. There have been updates to our OS from 1.0 to 3.9, hardly dead although takeovers and bankrupsy have strangled develpoment .

>>Amiga, Inc is just a company.
Of cousre AMIGA is a company.

>> If it goes under, oh well, life goes on. It is not the end of the Amiga community, and possibly not of the OS itself.
Sure if they realease the code of the OS to the public, it may.

>> If the OS vanishes, at least we have 2 remaining choices for a next-generation platform, MorphOS and AROS
Well, that's true too, so? I have Slackware and Red Hat and Suse etc....all versions of Linux, which one do you want to use.

>>Why are you so stedfast on killing the community all for the sake of a company?

A little harsh don't you think. Why would I want to kill a commmunity that is the only reason why "the company" is relaesing another version of my favourite OS.  )

You want an alternative? Go use it. I want to see my OS of choice go forward, I'm not killing anything lol I'm standing up for it.

[downix]

@Shades

Amiga, Inc is just a company. If it goes under, oh well, life goes on. It is not the end of the Amiga community, and possibly not of the OS itself. If the OS vanishes, at least we have 2 remaining choices for a next-generation platform, MorphOS and AROS. Why are you so stedfast on killing the community all for the sake of a company?

That's not true either. There have been updates to our OS from 1.0 to 3.5 .

Right here, your logic is absolute nonsence.

What do OS updates have to do with there being 2 additional amiga compatible OS's availible?

[SHADES]

@downix
>>Right here, your logic is absolute nonsence.

What do OS updates have to do with there being 2 additional amiga compatible OS's availible?

What are you talking about, OS updates are 1.0, 1.2, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1, 3.5, 3.9

>>What do OS updates have to do with there being 2 additional amiga compatible OS's availible?

What do you mean, Where is there another AMIGA OS that runs AMIGA?? What Morph? Morph runs Morph OS

What do you mean 2 AMIGA OS's I only know of one.
If you mean OS4? OS4 runs OS4 native apps and emulates what it cant run native for classic apps. It doesn't use Morph though. Morph is it's own OS.

[downix]

@Shades

Ahem...
 

What do you mean, Where is there another AMIGA OS that runs AMIGA?? What Morph? Morph runs Morph OS

I mean just that, there are Amiga compatible OS's out there.  They are not another Amiga OS that runs Amiga, they are other OS's that run Amiga software, modules, libraries, even system core files if you are so inclined.  If you cannot understand the distinction, than this conversation is at an end.  Good day sir.

[SHADES]

@downix
They are not AMIGA OS just because they run modules that work under AMIGA OS lol.
That's the point.  Modules are just that, things that run under AMIGA Os. If they don't need AMIGA OS, then they are not AMIGA OS or a module any more as they are not based on AMIGA OS and don't require it to be loaded to function. They have their own code and don't rely on any part of the origanl base AMIGA OS.

They may be compatible to some degree but as far as I know, the source code for AMIGA OS was never released for anyone to copy. Wine allows you to run windows apps under Linux, it runs on the same platform but is not Windows.

No need to get all snooty. It's a debate, It's not a personal attack on you by any means. If you're offended, I am sorry.
Good day to you too