Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents?

[L8-X]

Saw this on ANN...is this really true??

Alkis Tsapanidis points out a comment posted by Bill Buck and Raquel Velasco in the Genesi on /. thread. "Thendic (and all affiliated companies) hold a valid worldwide right and license to Amiga DE, the "Amiga" patents, and all associated copyrights and trademarks. This Agreement was signed between ourselves and Bill McEwen on 10 November 2000. The Agreement remains in effect today."

[System]

Yes ... in a way.
Note that this is over 2 years old, targeted solely at AmigaDE and can probably be cancelled due to EU law and the genesi merger.
No effect at all.

[L8-X]

Phew! :-o

[System]

Thendic most certainly holds no Amiga patents. And regarding that ancient AmigaDE license, it was solely for a device running PocketPC in conjunction with AmigaDE.

IMO this news item is very misleading, and as I stated on ANN, unless you want to cause confusion, totally not news worthy.

(Other than that I have been told that Thendic did not pay Amiga Inc  the required money for using  this license, so IMO it would be best to take such statements with a grain of salt)

[ikir]

?

[catohagen]

bah...just another desperate act of getting in the
headlines again...

[CodeSmith]

Of all the different instances of alleged FUD here and at ANN, this is actually a textbook example of what *real* FUD looks like.  bPlan/Thendic makes a statement that sounds like it could mean something ("We have an Amiga license") and posts it to a discussion site known to attract people with extreme opinions (ANN).  When all the dialog starts ("so what exactly does that mean?") they just sit back and watch the zealots from both sides slug it out.  If enough people demand more info, they just make cryptic statements ("just read paragraph 4.2 of this document that only 5 or 6 people are legally allowed to look at") .  Eventually enough noise is generated that Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt creep in as a natural side-effect.

Gotta hand it to these guys, they took a market leader (Microsoft), analyzed what put them at the top of the foodchain (all the court transcripts are freely available on the web) and got to work.

:madashell:

[Argo]

I find it hard to believe anything from them.

I actually don't see the point in them mentioning this, as they stated on ANN that they have this licence (whatever it actually is) but they're not going to use it. So... I guess they believe that there is no such thing as bad publicity.

[bbrv]

Hi CodeSmith...

We posted this on another thread here on www.amiga.org:

Not a Fake!
-----------------------------
Here it is again:

Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 21 of 22
Posted by bbrv (212.198.0.93) on 24-Nov-2002 16:13:18

Here is an official statement that we have made before on Amiga-News:

http://www.amiga-news.de/archiv02/020417_interview_bb_pt.shtml

It says (toward the end): Thendic France: We will release and promote the products whether there is cooperation with Amiga Inc. or not. They have chosen their principal direction with AmigaDE. Great. We have tried to work with them, but we want to do what we want to do -- not what they want to force us to do. It would be wonderful if we could work together, but this is not a precondition for us to move ahead. We would like to cooperate with Amiga. We (Thendic-Germany) were the first organization to achieve an Amiga DE license (our lawyers wrote the license agreement) and we would have been happy to extend our current license --and pre-pay royalties -- but we unfortunately cannot get them to see things our way. Amiga belongs to them so that is their call. We are going ahead anyway.

@all concerned

We signed this agreement with Bill McEwen on 10 November 2000 when we were not competitors, but rather partners. The Agreement gives us a worldwide license for AmigaDE (not the "classic" OS) and use of the "Amiga" patents and trademarks. Under the terms of the Agreement we even have the right to sublicense under certain terms and conditions (which are actually very easy to meet). What has happened since that time is unfortunate, but the Agreement still stands. If we thought there was something useful we could do with Amiga DE we would.

If there is anyone interested in working as a *paid* Developer for this "special" project, that is, bringing MorphOS and Amiga DE together then please contact us. It might be interesting to do, but as before and for the moment now, we do not see the value of such an effort. Please convince us otherwise if we are incorrect.

We appreciate ANN very much. The quality of the posts here can be as good or bad as they are anywhere else. ANN has been of great assistance to us over the last year. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Raquel and Bill

P.S. We appreciate www.amiga.org too!
-----------------------------

Contrary to the comments here there was nothing misleading about the original statement on ANN.  It says we have a license to DE and we do.  It says we have a license to use the Amiga patents in the devices we develop and we do.  It says we can use the trademarks in conjunction with these devices and we can.  If AmigaOS5 is supposed to be a magical merger of the OS4 and DE, why couldn't MorphOS and DE?  Well, we do not really think this is a particularly useful direction, BUT we are willing to fund the development of this IF there is someone out there that can actually do it.  Please send us an email.

Mike Bouma, you pass yourself off as an impartial journalist.  You are not.  If you had read the 10 November Agreement then you would not that you are VERY incorrect in your statements.  You will also notice that Ben Hermans has not responded to the subsequent post we made in the ANN thread.  He does have a copy of the Agreement and he knows we are quite correct in our statements.  Further, if you have read it, how?  Did someone who had signed an NDA let you read it?  The Agreement is valid.  There are no royalties currently due.  Your claims are wrong and *your* statements as usual distort the truth.

Back to Mr. CodeSmith and Bellvue, Washingtom :-), this statement DOES mean something.  We "put our money where our mouth is."  Can you do this development?  Can you find us someone who can do this development and/or who can really explain why it would be useful to do this?  What do our statements have to do with FUD?  We made this agreement with Amiga Inc. in a POSITIVE spirit -- no one forced Bill McEwen to sign the Agreement.  What is wrong with trying to resurrect that cooperation?  Yes, we do think the Message Boards are very useful to understand the various opinions.  That is why we post.  If you can try to understand what we have posted here, we will sincerely try to answer to your objections.

We invite Bill McEwen or Fleecy Moss to post here, on ANN, MooBunny, or even MorphOS-News.  You have not answered our constructive emails, so post here.  How about a genuine response and not real FUD about the legality of MorphOS for example.  

Finally, for all of you that are so quick to criticize the use of these Boards to publicize opinions or ambitions, what are you doing?  How does the field of action look from the bleechers?  Worse, how about those anonymous folks who do not even have enough guts to say "here I am," but throw mud from hidden positions with no intention of responsibility or accountability.  Who is a "Punk?"

This community still has plenty of potential.  We are making a genuine and diligent effort to pull some of this back together.  The Genesi Team have spent quite a bit of money, expended resources and devoted significant time to enable the success of the Pegasos and MorphOS -- these are originally created products.  Any of you laid out a working PCB lately?  How about an OS?  Who is "leeching" from who?  Ask yourself, "what have I done today to be part of all this," irregardless of which "side" of the arguement you take?  If you can do something creative and productive, we have a place for you.  Our team gets a paycheck and will be rewarded with a proportional amount of the success.  In the meanwhile, if we can figure out ways to bring this creative community together again we will.  When the Slashdots thousands arrive (as they did at www.morphos-news,de this past weekend), it would be better for them to see at least the appearence of a united front.  Maybe, we could agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Sincerely,

R&B

[Orgin]

Blah blah blah.

/Björn

[Fot]

Dear R&B,

It says we have a license to use the Amiga patents in the devices we develop and we do. It says we can use the trademarks in conjunction with these devices and we can

Well, according to Bill McEwen on ANN, or a post by someone claiming to be Bill on ANN, this is not the case.

http://ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1038088382&category=web&number=22

So, please act in a professional manner and take this discussion offline. After all, it's something that needs to be sorted out between Thendic France and Amiga Inc. IMO, inviting Bill McEwen or Fleecy Moss to post on message boards and discuss matters of this nature is totally unprofessional.

Regards,
Fotios.

[bbrv]

Hi Fotios,

Yes, thank you for the link.  Here is our response:

Genesi's turn to be featured on Slashdot. : Comment 24 of 24
Posted by bbrv (212.198.0.93) on 25-Nov-2002 07:09:14
In Reply to Comment 23:

Dear Bill,

Of course, Amiga Inc. is the only holder of the IP. That is why we reached and Agreement about the license.

1. Please refer to Paragraph 4.2 concerning the issue you make about DE, the patents and the trademarks. You are incorrect. You are being "misleading," not us.

2. Yes, the list of products did initially include the SmartBoy which was developed for use with WindowsCE. However, the Agreement is quite clear that it applies to "any" Thendic product. We call your attention to Paragraph 2 of Appendix A specifically.

Bill, you have gone through a hard time and fought against incredible odds. Please do not let this this potential show of support become distored.

Sincerely,
R&B
-----------------

This is precisely the reason we have finally felt it was necessary to go 'public."  How is this effort unprofessional?  We are interested in gaining the support of the Community and to make a fully informed decision the Community should know all the facts.  Certainly, you are entitiled to you opinion, but the Community is our FIRST interest and focus here on these threads -- NOT Amiga Inc.  Amiga Inc. does not own the "amiga spirit" or the Community.

Sincerely,
R&B

[CodeSmith]

@bbrv:

First, why the smiley next to my hometown? yes, most people familiar with computers know that Microsoft has its offices here.  But if I look across the street from my apartment I can see Nintendo's offices, right next to Digipen, the videogame school.  Walk a bit and you can see S3's offices.  Drive half an hour (not an unreasonable commute) and I'm in Bill McEwen's office.  You have no idea if I'm even employed right now, the recession hit this state pretty hard.  You are using innuendo to try and discredit me ("oh no, he lives right next to the Beast - he obviously works there, probably in the 'crush the competition' division"), and I don't appreciate this.

Secondly, here is a cut'n'paste of your post at ann.lu:

Here is something for you all to consider...;-)

Thendic (and all affiliated companies) hold a valid worldwide right and license to Amiga DE, the "Amiga" patents, and all associated copyrights and trademarks. This Agreement was signed between ourselves and Bill McEwen on 10 November 2000. The Agreement remains in effect today.

Who knows what the future could hold?!

Best regards,

Raquel and Bill

So, what *exactly* does that mean?  If you say something like "we have rights to use these licenses, so we plan on doing ", that's an announcement.   The announcement is whatever you're planning, the licenses are just a means to an end.  Simply saying that you have the licenses is a means without an end.  This does not make sense so most people will try and imagine what that end is.  If those people are the ann crowd (not that I have anything against them, but they *are* excitable), you end up with all sorts of weird theories and misinformation flying around.  Add to that the tone of the message, ie "we have a signed contract, so we can use the name 'amiga' whether you want us to or not'" and you are guaranteed an 100+ post thread.  Lots of bad stuff flying around and your hands are completely clean - you just made an innocent little post, it was all those other people who blew it out of proportion.

Next, the paragraph you keep on mentioning - I bet that you'd get in trouble if you just posted it here, since it's probably confidential.  If so, why mention it? if you feel you must make a response on the forum do so, but keep 'secret' stuff to private mails (post something like "Bill, I believe you're incorrect - see the personal mail I sent you").  Anything else is more speculation waiting to happen.

To finish my little rant, here is Bill McEwen's reply to your post on ann:

In Reply to Comment 17:
I am sorry to report that the statements made here are very misleading and incorrect.

The contract mentioned was for AmigaDE on Windows CE. It does not in ANY way have anything to do with patents, or our IP.

Amiga, Inc. is the only holder of our IP

Regards,

Bill McEwen

Please stop trying to use the 'court of public opinion'.  If you have something you're working on, sort it out with the relevant parties in private and *then* make an announcement.  If you're genuinely trying to bridge the two camps then I apologize, but your current attempts at online diplomacy are causing more harm than good.

[Argo]

use of the "Amiga" patents and trademarks, reguarding DE only?

[Orgin]

@CodeSmith

"but your current attempts at online diplomacy are causing more harm than good"

True indeed.

/Björn