Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents?

[Orgin]

Approach to heal the community Type 1:

"Hi all.

We can see that there is some interrest in running AmigaDE software on MorphOS. In the year 2000 we spoke with Amiga Inc about AmigaDE on our PDA style device and signed a licence agreement to run AmigaDE. This could form a basis to porting AmigaDE to MorphOS and if there are some developers willing to take on such a task we would in turn be willing to contact Amiga Inc about this issue.

Regards
R&B"

Approach to heal the community Type 2:

R&B: "We have a contract to use AmigaDE as we see fit and use all Amiga trademarks and patents!!"

Community: "Wha? Huh? really?"

AInc: "Hmm, no you don't."

R&B: "Yes we do! Look at paragraph 4.2, haha!"

R&B: "They left the discussion so we must be right, haha! They have done so before, so we must be even more right! Haha!  We are the ones trying to heal the community!"

/Björn

[jedi]

I totally agree with Senex.

Bill&Raquel/Thendic/Genesi give only information concerning some points (by answering always correctly to everybody), and some people try only to attack them without arguments and reasons except uninformation.

And @ all who say "in a very unprofessional way on a public forum" concerning Bill&Raquel/Thendic/Genesi : do you really think that Hermans, Moss,... interventions/posts on forums (like ANN or Amiga.org) are more professional ??... (especially Ben Hermans the first, as OS project leader, should take more, professional, distance himself...).

Personnally, I follow Pegasos/MorphOS/bPlan/Thendic since the beginning, and what I see everytime is a great, and serious, work to offer the best product (machine & OS) to the Amiga Community and outside the Community.

But, what I see too often on forums like Amiga.org (or ANN), are people who don't respect this hard and excellent work !

When I read some posts/comments, I'm sure that a majority of you have NEVER really seen, and tested/used, the Pegasos/MorphOS running, and all the work, with today results, of Thendic/bPlan/Genesi.

Before to judge something, wait and see. And speak only about what you really know. For that, try to come to Meetings & Shows where Pegasos/MorphOS are demonstrated, especially the next Aachen in Germany  ;-) (where will be sold to anybody the first really new product in the Amiga market since 1994  :-))

So, be constructive and respectuous, please.
"we are all in the same boat" ;-)

[Senex]

@Ketzer:

Well, why can't Mr. McEwen - after already posting a comment on ANN - also comment if bbrv's claim regarding §4.2 is true or not?

And since you said it's up to the court if it's still valid or not - then WHY all those comments here on Amiga.org using the opportunity for mud-wrestling against Thendic? Stay calm then. As I said, in the beginning there just has been an answer to a question somewhere deep in a thread at ANN. Seems some AI-fans didn't like that piece of information (although basically being old news already) and THEY then started all the fuss about it.
 
So much hate and prejudices (or did you actually use a Pegasos already at an Amiga-show) against their products. Why? Fearing the "Amifan-effect"...?

Sorry, but as I said already, I fail to understand any rational reason for all this Anti-Thendic-mood here.

@Mike:

Okay, then we agree to disagree. Being liberal in general and even more after all the lies towards the Amiga community in the past, especially also by AI & Co, I prefer to get as much information aspossible in public instead of believing blindly into everything Amiga Inc. is telling me. Especially if, as in your case (as you said on ANN), my source is Mr. McEwen who's latest interview speaks for itself...

If AI tells the truth there's no need for secret "official channels" - they could answer right here and now. (As they did before.)

@ (the current) Amiga Inc.:

So, AI, does §4.2 of the mentioned contract include the usage of the Amiga trademark and patents together with the AmigaDE license or not?

[strobe]

@jedi

Many, if not most amiga.org posters don't care about technology, only the Name™

I think "Genesi", or whatever they are called now, realize this sad fact and threw this out there just to make people THINK what the Name™ really means. Sadly it will probably backfire.

[System]

@ Jedi

As the way I see this, Ben Hermans mainly clarifies questions/statements with regard to their product, AmigaOS4.

If this is wise to do so, on a public forum like ANN, I have difficulty forming an opinion. (considering trolling, public insults, etc on ANN)  If Mr. Buck would mainly clarify questions/statements with regard to their products, namely MorphOS/Pegasos, I would most certainly applaud this. And this would IMO mean alot of added value to such forums.

Confusion hower should IMO be avoided at all cost.

[Senex]

just to make people THINK what the Name™ really means

Basically I do understand those people here at Amiga.org who cling that much to The Name. Back in earlier times, when proDAD announced their pOS, I, too, have been against it, against any split, against anything non-Amiga. But history changed my mind - especially and finally Amiga Inc.'s plain, intentional, impertinent lies in 2001.

Therefore I do know that it takes time and hurts to solve oneself from that name. The name one has fought for all those years...

But as I wrote before - and while I've been typing someone else already in more detail - Genesi actually HAS products! bplan designed and built a new motherboard. They and the whole MorphOS-Team built a PowerPC-OS continueing the AmigaOS (not in source-code but in compatibility, look & feel and spirit). And finally Thendic (not Amiga Inc.) attended many important Amiga shows, let the people play around with their products to make their own opinion about it, they supported ambitioned developers, creatives and groups with products, they CARED about the community as "Papa Petro" did in the old days. Thendic cooperates with Petro Tyschtschenko's Power Trading, have Allan Havemose on board doing the Java-VM for them, and, and, and...

To make it short: Genesi is where the action is. They develop, they design, they deliver. (Not just vapor and plain lies in interviews...)

So, as others said before: Check what YOU did this year for the AMIGA (which is way more than a trademark, given like a prostitute from one to the other) and the community, and THEN judge again over Genesi & friends!

[Desler]

Before to judge something, wait and see. And speak only about what you really know. For that, try to come to Meetings & Shows where Pegasos/MorphOS are demonstrated, especially the next Aachen in Germany

It might be that the pegasos/morphos solution is a very nice package, and that the hardware is cheap and so on. But  the fact is still that its not an amiga!!!
Its an OS which is compatible with amigaOS. It may outrange Aos 4.0 for all that I know but its still not the real thing.
It seems to me that there have been alot of hard feelings between morphos/pegasos and amiga inc from the start. Maybe one should just accept the loss and try to marked the morphos as an independant os

[Senex]

@Mike:

If Mr. Buck would mainly clarify questions/statements with regard to their products, namely MorphOS/Pegasos, I would most certainly applaud this. And this would IMO mean alot of added value to such forums. Confusion hower should IMO be avoided at all cost.

Exactly. And so he did. Others made fuss about it. And the last answer he gave has been that §4.2 would prove him right. Since then there's "radio silence" from Amiga Inc. ...

[jedi]

@MikeB

"As the way I see this, Ben Hermans mainly clarifies questions/statements with regard to their product, AmigaOS4."

Certainly not.
I would like to suggest you to read again the hundreds posts of Ben Hermans on forums (ANN the first), but I don't want that you lose your time ;-)

Seriously, Ben Hermans is certainly the first "project leader" inside the Community who posts on forums whatever the subjects, concerning AmigaOS4 or not, confidential or not, respectuous of the contracts/NDA or not.

Sometimes, its posts are professional and interesting, sometimes not.

[Senex]

@Desler:

It may outrange Aos 4.0 for all that I know but its still not the real thing.

But the only difference (except being available now) is that the one team had the source code as reference and the others public documentation about AmigaOS's behaviour - and the result then is the same: two OS's that are compatible to 68k-AmigaOS  and keep it's look & feel.

So really the only thing between them that's important to you is the name? Maybe, I don't know, your imagination of MorphOS is still that of a  totally alien OS like Linux or MacOS? If so, please take the opportunity to just play around with it at some Amiga show - you'll see, if someone would have told you it'd be AmigaOS4, you would have believed it immediately.

Maybe one should just accept the loss and try to marked the morphos as an independant os

As it's done. But Amiga Inc. doesn't own us, the community - they just acquired the trademark. So it's absolutely legitimate for other companies to advertise towards us for buying or even developing for their products. As others - including Gateway, QNX, Be Inc. or the current Amiga Inc. with their totally unrelated Tao stuff - did before...

[jedi]

@Desler

"It might be that the pegasos/morphos solution is a very nice package, and that the hardware is cheap and so on. But the fact is still that its not an amiga!!!
Its an OS which is compatible with amigaOS. It may outrange Aos 4.0 for all that I know but its still not the real thing.
It seems to me that there have been alot of hard feelings between morphos/pegasos and amiga inc from the start. Maybe one should just accept the loss and try to marked the morphos as an independant os"

That's your personnal point of view ;-)

For me, Pegasos/MorphOS is really a new, powerfull, "Amiga" with a new, modern, "AmigaOS". Ok, that's my personnal point of view. You can agree it or not.

And everybody can consider MorphOS like an independant OS, that does'nt shock/disturb me ;-)

When we love something, and when we believe in something, the name is totally indifferent and not important. I prefer to consider the machine, the results and the perspectives instead of some letters of a simple name.

[System]

Well, why can't Mr. McEwen - after already posting a comment on ANN - also comment if bbrv's claim regarding §4.2 is true or not?

Because it is under NDA?  :-o

[System]

(except being available now)

*sigh* It is NOT available. A public beta is NOT the final product. Even when 1.0 is final it still contains only an emulation box and very few parts of the actual Morphos, the qbox.

[System]

For me, Pegasos/MorphOS is really a new, powerfull, "Amiga" with a new, modern, "AmigaOS". Ok, that's my personnal point of view. You can agree it or not.

Neither can it be named AmigaOS nor does it contain parts of AmigaOS. At best it is an Amiga-like OS (well, it should be since it emulates an Amiga environment).

Edit: I consider it to be closer to Amithlon; and that is imo no Amiga either.

[System]

Hello,

Just by curiousity, i'd really want to know what is an "Amiga" for you?

Thanks in advance for your answers
Regards

[Senex]

@Ketzer:

Nitpicking. The OS is there, available for Joe Public. And the Q-Box stuff is equivalent to OS5, OS4 to the A-Box.