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AuthorTopic: Bill Gates not a philanthropist?  (Read 9199 times)

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Offline Iggy

Re: Bill Gates not a philanthropist?
« Reply #75 on: January 19, 2014, 09:50:31 PM »
Quote from: gertsy;757560
Thus the importance that we all take responsibility for our impact on the world and try to leave it in a better place by the time we leave. Philanthropy is the way to do that, in a considered and developmental way. Sponsoring agri projects and medical initiatives. Just like Bill Gates has.

Look at the amount of money Gates and Microsoft has pumped into the EU and the third world (Spain) through forced donations to corrupt bureaucracy.

A better place?
Naive.
Has Bill Gates and his monopoly REALLY made this world a better place?
Not from my point of view.
Certainly not in relation to the costs imposed in making Gates the richest man on the planet.
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Offline jj

Re: Bill Gates not a philanthropist?
« Reply #76 on: January 19, 2014, 09:57:51 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;757550
I think most people are blissfully ignorant of the evil that western civilisation imposes on the rest of the world to supply the things that make our lifestyle what it is.

Ignorance is a choice IMNSHO.


+1
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Offline blanning

Re: Bill Gates not a philanthropist?
« Reply #77 on: January 20, 2014, 01:10:30 AM »
Quote from: JJ;757543
Fossil fuels.


So it's better to force people not to have children than to find technological solutions to the reduction of fossil fuels?

Quote

They metals and minerals we are force miming form places like Africa to make mobiles and computers.  


Again, there are technological solutions.  The only reason these things aren't recycled from old electronics now is because it's not economically viable to do so.  So should we force people not to have children only because it's cheaper to do it that way?

Maybe if we had a different attitude, we wouldn't need to replace electronics so often.  No one ever suggests that.  

Quote

Food will become an issue in the not too distant future


Listen to me...  there is no food shortage.   You're being lied to.  If a place has no food, it's either because someone is economically raping a country, or because food is being used as a weapon.  The answer to this is not to reduce population.  It's to stop the people who are causing these problems.

Us "educated" and "advanced" people in the western world think we have all the answers.  We figured out how to do it all.  We know for sure that there's just too many people on the planet for the amount of food and water we have.  We really have this farming and nature thing down pat, right?  lol  Such arrogance!  Not even close.  Wanna see how wrong we got it?  Watch this movie:  http://www.backtoedenfilm.com  I challenge you to watch it to the end with an open mind, then tell me how much arable land there is on the planet.

You want to fix fossil fuel usage?  How about we stop using all these chemical fertilizers.  They're all petroleum based.  What about all the plastic bags and bottles that are so bad for the environment?  What was so bad about wood or metal boxes, glass bottles, or paper bags?  I think they were all better anyway.  If we stop our world-wide plastic orgy, that might reduce fossil fuels right?  Plastic sucks anyway.

Did you know that my car gets more than 45 miles to the gallon?  It kicks the Prius' butt.  And it's not even available for sale in the US.  Why?   But let's not stop there.  How about making all cars are electric cars?  And don't tell me about how we're burning coal at the plant anyway.  For the cost of a new car, I'm about to go off grid and install a wind and solar system at my farm.  Why couldn't I charge my car with this?

My point to all this is that there are technological and sociological solutions to all these problems that don't require forced sterilizations, aborting babies, and killing people.  But why aren't we pursuing those solutions?  When it comes to blowing up people at wedding parties, we have the highest technology ever attained by humans.  How about we apply that level of research dollars and effort into something that helps people instead of killing people?  I guess there's no money in it.

Like I said way up higher, humans have an attitude problem.
 

Offline blanning

Re: Bill Gates not a philanthropist?
« Reply #78 on: January 20, 2014, 01:22:06 AM »
Quote from: nicholas;757550
I think most people are blissfully ignorant of the evil that western civilisation imposes on the rest of the world to supply the things that make our lifestyle what it is.

Ignorance is a choice IMNSHO.


I agree completely.  

If anyone wants to really see how deep the rabbit hole goes, go to amazon or youtube and search for "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins.   That's a good place to start.

brian
 

Offline blanning

Re: Bill Gates not a philanthropist?
« Reply #79 on: January 20, 2014, 01:27:58 AM »
Quote from: gertsy;757560
Thus the importance that we all take responsibility for our impact on the world and try to leave it in a better place by the time we leave. Philanthropy is the way to do that, in a considered and developmental way. Sponsoring agri projects and medical initiatives. Just like Bill Gates has.


Heh, and Warren Buffet is just a nice old man who likes ice cream.

Quote

Look at the amount of money Gates and Microsoft has pumped into the EU and the third world (Spain) through forced donations to corrupt bureaucracy.


Spain is a third world country.  lol

I....  wow.
 

Offline Kesa

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Re: Bill Gates not a philanthropist?
« Reply #80 on: January 20, 2014, 01:41:05 AM »
I believe you when you say there is enough food in this world to feed everybody. But only in quantity. The quality of that food is not fit for consumption. I am going to make a guess and state that 99% of the food available is processed rubbish. How many generations can humanity flourish eating nothing but crap before our own DNA begins breaking down? I believe we should be focusing on quality nutrition and not quantity mush for the masses. To do this we need to reduce the population significantly.

And no before you say it i don't think we have the technology now to do it. Even if we wanted to. They tell us that we should eat lots of wholemeal grains to be healthy but the real reason is that grain is easy to mass produce. The human body isn't designed to eat this much grain. Technology cannot provide 9 billion people with quality food. We need to reduce the population
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Offline Iggy

Re: Bill Gates not a philanthropist?
« Reply #81 on: January 20, 2014, 02:24:36 AM »
Quote from: blanning;757573
Heh, and Warren Buffet is just a nice old man who likes ice cream.

I must admit I liked that comment.
Don't count on rich philanthropists to solve the world's problems folks, they have their own interests to look after.

As to food production, about 12-15 years ago I looked into this and without much significant improvement we can probably manage to feed about 14 to 15 billion people.
So production is not really an issue.
Distribution and economics, those are the controlling factors.

I think its inevitable that we will see the world's population continue to rise.
It has about doubled in my lifetime alone.

The trick will be raising the general population's standard of living (which tends to inhibit over population) while reducing their impact on the environment.

Trust me, the biggest myth is that we are running out of space. Its a damned big planet.
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Offline Kesa

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Re: Bill Gates not a philanthropist?
« Reply #82 on: January 20, 2014, 02:32:36 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;757576

I think its inevitable that we will see the world's population continue to rise.
It has about doubled in my lifetime alone.

Only in 3rd world countries. In western countries it is more or less staying the same.


Quote from: Iggy;757576
Trust me, the biggest myth is that we are running out of space. Its a damned big planet.

Right. Look what they are planning to do in Egypt. Really quite brilliant: http://pavelpodolyak.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/terraforming-sahara-desert.html
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Offline Iggy

Re: Bill Gates not a philanthropist?
« Reply #83 on: January 20, 2014, 02:38:27 AM »
Quote from: Kesa;757578
Only in 3rd world countries. In western countries it is more or less staying the same.

EXACTLY, which is why, as hard to believe as it may be, we need to encourage the improvement of living standards globally.

Quote from: Kesa;757578
Right. Look what they are planning to do in Egypt. Really quite brilliant: http://pavelpodolyak.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/terraforming-sahara-desert.html

Makes sense to me.
That desert was once perfectly useful land.
Desertification need not be irreversible.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

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Offline blanning

Re: Bill Gates not a philanthropist?
« Reply #84 on: January 20, 2014, 02:44:24 AM »
Quote from: Kesa;757574
I believe you when you say there is enough food in this world to feed everybody. But only in quantity. The quality of that food is not fit for consumption. I am going to make a guess and state that 99% of the food available is processed rubbish. How many generations can humanity flourish eating nothing but crap before our own DNA begins breaking down? I believe we should be focusing on quality nutrition and not quantity mush for the masses. To do this we need to reduce the population significantly.


Nope.  When I say there's no food shortage, I mean there's enough arable land to feed everyone on the planet fresh fruits and vegetables and grains and even meat.

Did you know that Qaddafi had nearly completed a huge public works project in Libya that was a huge underground aqueduct?  Had it been allowed to continue, it would have transformed Libya from a desert into farm land.  But we brought "democracy" to Libya.  In the 1940s, Israel was a desert.  Now they export fruit to Europe.  Why can't this be done in, oh I don't know, Ethiopia?  How about Sudan?  Somalia?  There's no reason why it can't.  Yet it doesn't happen.

I agree that most food out there is garbage.  Some in third world are malnourished because of the absence of food.  Some in the first world are malnourished because the food they have is devoid of nutrients.  

Quote

And no before you say it i don't think we have the technology now to do it. Even if we wanted to. They tell us that we should eat lots of wholemeal grains to be healthy but the real reason is that grain is easy to mass produce. The human body isn't designed to eat this much grain. Technology cannot provide 9 billion people with quality food. We need to reduce the population


I disagree.  That is, I agree that the food pyramid is a joke.  And the we shouldn't be eating the quantities of grain we're "supposed to".  But I don't think we need to reduce the population to feed everyone a quality diet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsAracLBCxI

Where I am (Uruguay) has some of the best farm land in the world.  And vast areas are simply empty.  No people, no food growing.  So much is thrown away because of economics or mismanagement.  Yet there are still poor people here who don't get enough to eat.  Would reducing the population here solve that problem?
 

Offline Kesa

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Re: Bill Gates not a philanthropist?
« Reply #85 on: January 20, 2014, 02:44:58 AM »
Improve living standards? I believe the reason why we are not breeding at the same rate is because of life pressures such as work. People are too busy to have kids these days. But yes i see your point.
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Offline Kesa

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Re: Bill Gates not a philanthropist?
« Reply #86 on: January 20, 2014, 02:47:55 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;757579
EXACTLY, which is why, as hard to believe as it may be, we need to encourage the improvement of living standards globally.



Makes sense to me.
That desert was once perfectly useful land.
Desertification need not be irreversible.

Improve living standards? I believe the reason why we are not breeding  at the same rate is because of life pressures such as work. People are  too busy to have kids these days. But yes i see your point.
Even my cat doesn\'t like me.
 

Offline Iggy

Re: Bill Gates not a philanthropist?
« Reply #87 on: January 20, 2014, 02:49:07 AM »
>Improve living standards? I believe the reason why we are not  breeding at the same rate is because of life pressures such as work.  People are too busy to have kids these days. But yes i see your point.

Great! Lets get them jobs then and cut down on their free time to fornicate.

BTW - How the heck did these two posts change places?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 02:54:29 AM by Iggy »
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

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Offline Kesa

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Re: Bill Gates not a philanthropist?
« Reply #88 on: January 20, 2014, 02:49:49 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;757579
EXACTLY, which is why, as hard to believe as it may  be, we need to encourage the improvement of living standards globally.

Makes sense to me.
That desert was once perfectly useful land.
Desertification need not be irreversible.

Improve living standards? I believe the reason why we are not breeding   at the same rate is because of life pressures such as work. People are   too busy to have kids these days. But yes i see your point.
Even my cat doesn\'t like me.
 

Offline Kesa

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Re: Bill Gates not a philanthropist?
« Reply #89 on: January 20, 2014, 02:54:21 AM »
@Blanning. We have the same problem in Australia. We have excellent farming land that isn't being used. Instead we prefer to import our fruit and vegetables at a higher cost :confused:

@Iggy. What happened there?  :huh:

@Iggy. How is your quest for being self sustaining going? I remember you talking about it before.
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