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Offline djbase

Re: OS4 on the pegasos
« Reply #74 from previous page: June 10, 2004, 02:50:45 AM »
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Trolling and speculations. Congratulations. OS4 is well written
and you know it, both the system have some strong and weak point, you
are instead spreading fud. And the Articia bug... doesn't exist. Has
been proven but you want to spred false information. Pegasos 1 have a
useless hardware workaround, OS4 betateste have a working idedivice
with dma at full speed and without any workaound, only driver written
right with articia support.


:roflmao:
 

Offline djbase

Re: OS4 on the pegasos
« Reply #75 on: June 10, 2004, 02:57:08 AM »
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Amiga OS4 is based on Amiga OS source code, it is the natural evolution of AmigaOS on the PPC. Why it shouldn't be Amiga?



OS4 is a re-implementation of the original AmigaOS for PowerPC. Same as MorphOS or AROS. It doesnt matter if it is based on the orig. source or re-written. Everything is Amiga. It is a alternative. Nothing more. The orig. AmigaOS is dead since 1994.
 

Offline Van_M

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Re: OS4 on the pegasos
« Reply #76 on: June 10, 2004, 05:01:32 AM »
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Amiga OS4 is based on Amiga OS source code, it is the natural evolution of AmigaOS on the PPC. Why it shouldn't be Amiga?

Large part of the original AOS sources were in assembly right? In addition to the above it was also designed for different kind of hardware (different CPU, custom chips, different expansion ports etc)...
Now, a small quiz:
WHAT MAKES MORE F@£%$%N' SENSE!?!
1)Writting an OS from scratch, in such a way that it provides a compatible API and an emulator for the old applications + a GUI that immitates the original (to a certain degree)? OR....

2)Getting the 68K/ASM sources and
   a. reverse engineer them into something easier to understand
   b. Changing the kernel so it works with the new cpu
   c. locating and cutting out the custom hardware bits
   d. porting the 68k ASM functions into PPC C/C++.
   e. Adding support for the new hardware (BIOS, AGP, PCI, SDRAM... more or less everything!)
   f. making an emulator so the old apps work
   g. pressing the big, red "compile" button with a silly smile on your face!

for crying out, loud....

--EDIT-- h. Celebrate 2028! :lol:
The new Megadeth album rules!
 

Offline Waccoon

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Re: OS4 on the pegasos
« Reply #77 on: June 10, 2004, 06:01:12 AM »
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Cymric:  I've read on various sites that one of the reasons a machine might be sluggish is a sh*tload of spyware and other nasty things infecting your computer

What bugs me is that people seriously think this is a Windows-only problem.  Even Linux distroes come loaded with bloat these days if you don't look around.

What matters to me is how easy it is to get rid of the junk, and how many places spamware can hide.  Windows is infamous for this, but many other OSes aren't much better.  Download AppPaths and you can snuff out 95% of spamware from the registry.  It's not as bad as people think.

I used to be a sysadmin for a Mac network, and believe me, there's nothing like staring down 250+ system extentions -- most with cryptic names -- and having to eliminate the one that's causing the machine to crash every 10 minutes (and it'll likely be a system extention you can't remove, anyway).

Oh yeah, THAT was a BLAST -- especially when the Mac people could only sit around and tease Wintel people all day.

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Personally I think they sell snake oil (who on Earth needs a 64-bit CPU in a system, and why would you need personalised benchmarking specs for your machine...?)

Never trust anything in the ultra-performance market.  64-bit is meaningless at the moment, but so long as it's faster than 32-bit and price competitive, I don't care.

Game companies have been touting bits for years.  It's all bunk.

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Given the facts that very few people run these special applications at their own home, that everyday games are not amongst those, and that said systems are offered to game fanatics, I can only conclude one thing: you're being ripped off. It is just show.

Athlon64 is a good performer and cost comparible to the 32-bit P4.  Where's the ripoff?

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Go to nVidia and ask for hardware documentation and you'll be politely told to f*ck off.

Well, not unless you have money.  Apple got the Geforce3 pretty quick with their own drivers, until ATI started stepping on nVidia's toes, again.

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Welcome to the world of open x86 hardware.

Right.  We all know Macs use all their own proprietary standards these days.  Nobody ever heard of PCI, USB, and Ethernet on a Mac!  ;-)

Really, a Mac is just a PC with a different CPU... that costs more.

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I don't believe that for a second. A1 was designed (and later replaced by TeronCX) for one purpose, and one purpose only - to run OS4. No real effort has been made to get it to run anything else, except by Mai.

I thought the Teron was made to be a dev board for the PPC, so people could more easily make embedded software for other boards build on the Artica chipset.  It's not really designed to compete in any traditional market.

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Most hardware is overhyped and/or bad. I'm fed up off all these sh1tty PC motherboard with huge design flaws being sold off as packaged PCs, for instance.

Serious question: what's the worst thing about PC quality?  Stability, heat, reliabilty, technical documents...  ?

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The two different Operating systems are, for all intents and purposes, identical -- being that they both emulate the old real classic Amiga OS. Neither OS is "Amiga", so why get hung up on a name brand?

Nice.  :-)

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So? You said there was no decent support for nVidia cards, and no 3D drivers. Nothing about them having to be open source.

Seriously, how many drivers are open source that aren't hacked up for 10-year-old cards nobody uses anymore?  Everyone I know with a Linux box runs the OS on some tinny computer with a Celeron and a PCI card with no 3D support -- cause all they do is use it as an Apache/scripting server.

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The gfx card race is really cut-throat and neither ATI or nVidia are willing to spill the beans.

Do S3 and Matrox throw around their documentation?

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The suggestion that one company is evil and closed while the other is open and helpful is laughable.

I'm always suspicious of open source.  I've had more than a handful of these applications that are just as buggy and crash prone as the rest (FireFox and PHP BBSes come to mind), and unlike commercial apps, their interfaces suck to boot.  No matter how many people "contribute" to a project, the maintainers pull all the strings.

Quality depends more on commitment than coding style.

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A "tweak" to one person is a "workaround" to another one. As long as special mofications are needed, of any sort, that's a workaround to me. Scale is irrelevant.

For anything to be portable, all hardware has to have a reference of commonality (is that a real word?)

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Sure, but they're being sold at a fifth of the price of a Pegasos board, or even less, and you don't have to buy them. You can choose another model, and yet get exactly the same compatibility with the rest of your system. Conversely, the alternative to a Pegasos board is...
...another Pegasos board. Not exactly a breadth of choice, then.

So much for licensing.  I have no trouble being required to buy a specific x86 board with a ROM modification, so long as I can be assured the likeliness of a decent replacement in the future.  There's a LOT more x86 chipset choices than PowerPC choices.  Hell, what's to say they can't supply two motherboards built by two manufacturers with completely different specs, but based on the same chipset?

Meanwhile, Java programmers are laughing their butts off over all this hardware debate.

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Amiga OS4 is based on Amiga OS source code, it is the natural evolution of AmigaOS on the PPC. Why it shouldn't be Amiga?

My Oekaki BBS is based on cleaned-up OekakiPoteto source code, but I've changed it so much you'd never recognize it.  Design is more important than raw code, and in that respect, AmigaOS4 and MorphOS seem close enough to me.

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Either machine may sell well to the Linux community, and that is the niche they need to be marketing to. The remaining Amiga market however will never put food on the table for anything but a few dedicated hobby developers.

Funny how people who hate Windows the most always end up killing themselves.  Even BeOS wasn't terribly revolutionary once you clip through the hype.  I'm surprised they even lasted for 10 years at all.

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Good if you define "good" as being "incompatible and buggy as hell", that is. The complaints of Linux users about these drivers are constant. Change kernel, you have to wait for update. Choose any CPU but x86, too bad. This goes totally against the Linux mindset.

User-mode recompiling is easy enough, but things get really ugly in kernel mode.  I don't like microkernels that much, but Linux has really overgrown itself and could use a really good driver framework.  But, you know how UNIX people feel about low-level interfaces...

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And your implying that if one doesn't use these big companies for a computing solution then the result must be crap by default is equally laughable. You are trapped in this world where only the cutting edge is any good, which is really not better than some who believe anything x86 is inherently evil just by existing

Everything in the computer industry is like that.  I was trying to fix the transmission of data from a Java applet to a BBS programmed in PHP, and was horrified to see that the BBS has to import the data with $HTTP_RAW_POST_DATA and do lots of handiwork with hex matches!  I thought HTTP headers were supposed to format all the POST data!  Well, it *IS*, but the applet programmers were too damn lazy to do it right.  So, any change to the applet, and all the BBSes that use that applet will have to be completely reprogrammed or else they stop working.

When will people wise up?!

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YES! It was! Hardware designs for the A1 were being processed years before a single line of code were being written for OS4. How have you missed that?

Well, they were all canceled, and then they went with an off-the-shelf mobo by Mia Logic.  Expensive, but infinately better and cheaper than the original AmigaOne would've been... if they had even gotten it to work.

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"tweak" to one person is a "workaround" to another one.

Actually, I don't see the difference between those two, either.

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...this is beginning to sound like the infamous KDE/Gnome flame war. Gnome is a huge waste of time, manpower, programming effort and disk space, just to avoid one slightly restrictive (read: non-GPL) license. And in the end the problem ceased to exist thanks to Trolltech's change of mind.

Tried both.  *I* think they both suck.  I don't know why anyone wants to use the same "pick-n-place" GUI tools when we could be using markup, instead.

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"incompatible and buggy as hell" is sheer FUD in my experience. I haven't found anything it caused crashes with, and I've always been able to install the drivers on my system.

Well, I never was able to get my GeForce3 to work on Linux using any driver made for the GeForce3.  It kept dumping me to a desktop with white lines going across the screen and an invisible mouse cursor.  That's when I went to the TNT2.

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Anyway, anything to do with open source is totally against the Amiga mindset, so what's your point?

God, I miss the Public Domain scene.  Forget games and mutimedia... PD was *THE* thing that seperated Amiga from the stuffy, self-congratulatory PCs and Macs.

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"Almost obsolete" may still have plenty of merit, but I wouldn't advise anyone to pay more for it than they would have to for "cutting edge". Get it?

It's all about value.  I don't mind proprietary hardware, but I don't want to pay $800 for a machine that performs like a PC I can build for $150 today.

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...making an emulator so the old apps work

Good point.  Any app worth its salt is going to be recompiled natively to the new hardware, and it it can't be, it's because the company is out of business and nobody cares enough to make a BETTER app.  So, what's so bad about emulation?  You wouldn't buy a new PC to run Windows3.1, would you?  I have fond memories of my old DOS games, but I didn't buy a P4 to run Red Baron and Whiplash.

Some people argued that backwards compatibility in the PlayStation2 would hurt new game sales, because people could play their old PlayStation games all day.  Yeah, right.  I'm sure anyone would pay $300 for a machine to play old games.  PSOne compatibility was one of the few things about the PS2 I really, really liked both from a marketing standpoint, as well as practical.  People only buy new games, but the psychological impact of being able to run old software is still a selling point.  Now, it looks like backwards compatibility will be a normal expectation for any game console, and rightfully so.
 

Offline Cymric

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Re: OS4 on the pegasos
« Reply #78 on: June 10, 2004, 09:50:10 AM »
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Waccoon wrote:
What bugs me is that people seriously think this is a Windows-only problem.  Even Linux distroes come loaded with bloat these days if you don't look around. What matters to me is how easy it is to get rid of the junk, and how many places spamware can hide.  Windows is infamous for this, but many other OSes aren't much better.  Download AppPaths and you can snuff out 95% of spamware from the registry.  It's not as bad as people think.

First a little clarification: when I wrote the reply, I wasn't writing it to you, but to the person complaining about sluggishness of his PC. I malquoted, and for that I apologize. However, this answer is for you.

It is a Windows-only problem, as spyware is specifically designed to be obnoxious, insidious, hard to remove, and to not do anything useful except pointing your browser at vague sites and displaying advertisements you don't care one iota about. Or worse. Plus it cripples your machine in the process. I've had Windows Explorer and my audio drivers crashing all the time thanks to some little punks idea of a good program. The worst thing is that if your machine is compromised, it seems to attract a sh*tload of other crap, almost as if these programs know they've found a nice spot to hide.

And believe me, there have been examples of malicious code which are exceedingly clever at hiding themselves, going as far as removing themselves off of the main task lists, so the process doesn't show up anywhere but still runs in the background. On any halfway decent OS, such a thing would be impossible to achieve. Yet someone managed it under Windows. Check out this link for some hairy stories. Yes, you can remove them with programs like Spybot or HijackThis. But sometimes even those programs are not enough---and your 95% removal success still means there's 5% {bleep} left. I want everything removed. Or, even better, not have to go through the trouble of running these programs twice a week to see what got in this time.

You are confusing easy-to-remove, not-designed-to-hide bloat of applications with truly sneaky spyware. The first is slightly annoying, but once you remove it, it's gone and won't come back. The second is much more obnoxious. Please make sure you know the difference between the two, and thus also why it definitely is a Windows-only problem: namely because the OS has more holes in it than Swiss cheese.

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Athlon64 is a good performer and cost comparible to the 32-bit P4.  Where's the ripoff?

It being touted as a superior machine to run games on, because it's not. Emphasis on superior. I have no doubt it performs well, but that's where the buck stops. It is purely for ego-flattering and show, and I consider that a ripoff. YMMV.
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Offline Lando

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Re: OS4 on the pegasos
« Reply #79 on: June 10, 2004, 10:03:41 AM »
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Amiga OS4 is based on Amiga OS source code, it is the natural evolution of AmigaOS on the PPC. Why it shouldn't be Amiga?


If we look at the OS4 featurelist, we read that everything is either completely rewritten from scratch or was never part of Amiga OS in the first place.

Exec - "completely rewritten and renamed"
Intuition - "OS4.0 sees a complete rewrite of intuition"
Graphics - "AmigaOS 4.0 includes a brand new font management system"
Audio - AHI (never part of AmigaOS until now)
Fonts - "Brand new font management system"
Filesystems - "Completely rewritten in C"
Amidock - "Complete rework"
TSP/IP stack - Completely new
AmigaInput - Completely new
Moovid and MUI - 3rd party addons
 

Offline Waccoon

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Re: OS4 on the pegasos
« Reply #80 on: June 11, 2004, 02:29:39 AM »
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It is a Windows-only problem, as spyware is specifically designed to be obnoxious, insidious, hard to remove, and to not do anything useful except pointing your browser at vague sites and displaying advertisements you don't care one iota about. Or worse.

Uh, so just HOW does all that prove it's a Windows-only problem?

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And believe me, there have been examples of malicious code which are exceedingly clever at hiding themselves, going as far as removing themselves off of the main task lists, so the process doesn't show up anywhere but still runs in the background

If so, I've never seen such stuff.  I know you can hide stuff from the Task Manager, but you can't hide from the Process List.  Tasks are not the same as Processes, which is a very common misconception about the Windows process model.  If Ctrl-Alt-Del is your way of looking for spyware, no wonder you can't find anything.

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I want everything removed.

Then don't install anything.  If someone really wants to take over your computer, and you let their software run on your computer, they can.

The only solution is a total quarantine security system, but no OS offers that, as far as I know.  Java comes pretty close, but it has had many famous bugs that allow apps to read the hard drive, and Java is an application, not an OS process.

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Or, even better, not have to go through the trouble of running these programs twice a week to see what got in this time

In my experience, nothing gets on the computer uless you let it on.  Spyware killers only identify software on your computer, they don't prevent it from getting installed.  I don't understand where the Internet Explorer paranoia comes from, because I've never had a virus get on my machine via Explorer.

The only time I had a problem with software I didn't want was years ago with IE 5.0, when Comet Cursor installed on my system without me knowing.  Seeing how that was the only app ever to do that since I got online in '96, I consider that to be a security compromize rather than a regular, valid programming construct permitted by the OS.

And don't start complaining about security holes.  All computers have them.  I found out a way to get pop-ups to work in FireFox, and there's ways to get around Opera's pop-up blocker, so a site can be given permission to use pop-ups without you approving them.  There's probably a way to read the HD in the Linux version of FireFox, given how damn buggy that browser is.

I come from the camp that believe all computers suck.  Yes, Windows sucks, but I don't really think other "real" OSes are any better.

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Check out this link for some hairy stories

Either my Apache server prevents me from viewing that site, or the site is dead.  But, I've heard plenty of horror stories, and as someone who regularly fixes other peoples' computers, I've come to the conclusion that people are morons and allow melicious software on their machines willingly.  I've heard similar stories from people using other OSes, including Amigas.

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You are confusing easy-to-remove, not-designed-to-hide bloat of applications with truly sneaky spyware

If spyware gets on a Linux system, how many files do you have to check to trace all executables that run when the system is started?  How do you tell if a process "CCStart" is malicious or not?  What if the app hides itself by patching another executable?  Do you think any "real" OS is immune to stuff like this?  What about the fact that you have to log into root to install some kinds of software?  Spyware can't patch system files, then?

UNIX is famous for lousy security.  If you don't believe that, read some decent books on UN*X architecture.  This is most definately not a Windows-only problem.
 

Offline Cymric

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Re: OS4 on the pegasos
« Reply #81 on: June 12, 2004, 01:29:48 PM »
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Waccoon wrote:
Uh, so just HOW does all that prove it's a Windows-only problem?

I've read through your reply, and I think that you are still not clear on what exactly I mean with spyware. Spyware to me are malignant browser extensions which take advantage of bugs in the browser to make sure you visit sites or see advertisements you normally would avoid. In addition, some spyware might track what you are doing in order to establish a user profile. Some might register keystrokes in order to capture passwords or credit card details. A select handful will jump out of the browsing environment and hack themselves into the main system. Spyware is designed to enter the system via the browser and be hard to remove for someone without knowledge of OS internals. And most importantly, it installs without your knowledge or say-so.

While equally malignant and despicable, I do not consider keyloggers on an OS level or packet sniffers (i.e., programs which are not dependent on the browser to function) to be spyware, although it is exactly what they do: spy.

That is why it is a Windows/IE-only problem: no other combination I know of allows such easy hijacking and modification of the browser by outside parties, despite you trying your best to surf cleanly and patch your system as often as you can. While I applaud your ingenuity to bypass Firefoxes built-in popup blocker, I notice that it has very little to do with the insidious means at which spyware gets into my Windows system. Bypassing a Javascript function is one thing, adding machine-executable code to the browser is quite another.

Just to give you a taste of the situation I find myself in: I run Windows 2000 SP4 with IE6. The system is fully patched. All services not critical to my daily job of using the computer have been disabled: therefore no Telnet, no NetBIOS over TCP/IP, no domain features (as this is a stand-alone machine) and much more. I do not use an Administrator account to operate the machine. I have not loosened to access permissions on \WINNT and \Program Files, despite my losing several useful utilities which assume more lenient access rights in the process. I check the event logs regularly, and have various anti-spyware tools installed: CWSShredder, HijackThis, Spybot, and thanks to your generous hint, AppPaths. (HijackThis and AppPaths are rather similar in design and do more or less the same.) I have disabled ActiveX, Java and active scripting; I only enable the latter for sites I trust (Amiga.org, a Dutch newspaper, a few forums for board games). I rarely install software, and most of it is either scientific, or a game demo from a respectable (read: trustworthy) site. I use Eudora for email. I do not look at attachments: email from senders I do not know is deleted on sight. I do not visit pr0n or warez sites. I do not use P2P-programs. Noone else uses the computer. You now have some idea about what I did to and do with the machine, I hope.

Let's continue. You seem to have built up an enviable record of holding off the crap, and based on your repairing experience, have come to realise that people are, and I quote, 'morons who allow melicious software on their machine willingly'. Let us assume for the sake of the discussion that I am such a moron. I must be, because I find spyware on my machine twice a week. Considering that my 'net behaviour on Windows 98SE/IE5.5 and Linux/Mozilla 1.4 was far more promiscuous than under Windows 2000, and that I never got a single infection under those two systems, I am really, really interested in hearing your opinion as to why and how it got onto my Windows 2000 system, but not the other two. As en encore, take into account that the Windows 98 system was unprotected: no virus scanner, no firewall.

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If spyware gets on a Linux system, how many files do you have to check to trace all executables that run when the system is started?  How do you tell if a process "CCStart" is malicious or not?  What if the app hides itself by patching another executable?  Do you think any "real" OS is immune to stuff like this?  What about the fact that you have to log into root to install some kinds of software?  Spyware can't patch system files, then?

I have yet to see it happen as easily as it does on my Windows system. I have experienced two break-ins into a Linux-cluster, and both were caused by me and another sysadmin not knowing that lpd (the printer daemon) had security issues. I have never seen a break-in via a browser. I very, very much doubt said program would have gotten in that way, and thus it does not belong to the class of spyware I was talking about. Perhaps your definition of spyware is different from mine, as you seem to draw in much broader aspects of computer security than just the ones affecting the browser because later on you wrote:

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UNIX is famous for lousy security.  If you don't believe that, read some decent books on UN*X architecture.  This is most definately not a Windows-only problem.

Excuse me while I laugh. If there is one OS which is famous for lousy security, it's Windows. Yes, Unix is not totally secure either, and suffered from major break-ins and worm damage. Yet most break-ins were caused by social hacking, and the last great worm which targetted Unix was many years ago. But the far more modular design makes it inherently more robust than Windows ever will be. Plus that you can see and modify a lot of the source code of the programs you use. That is not a guarantee it is safe (find out at your own peril, I would say to anyone who believes this), but it does make scrutiny a whole lot easier.

Unix in the hands of a newbie can be made to be very vulnerable. If you stick to the default installation of your everyday Linux distribution, a cracker just might still get in. But it will cost him a lot of effort, and it will most certainly not be via the browser.

In any case, this discussion is really way off-topic and in order to keep the noise on the forum down a little, I am willing to continue it  using other channels.
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Offline Holley

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Re: OS4 on the pegasos
« Reply #82 on: June 12, 2004, 10:06:34 PM »
ummm, who cares?  Spyware is part of going on the internet these days, even classic Amigas get tracking cookies.

Incidentally I think Spybot is one of the best Windows utils I've ever used ;-)

Now what exactly are the important hardware differences between the A1 and Pegasos?
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Offline Van_M

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Re: OS4 on the pegasos
« Reply #83 on: June 12, 2004, 10:13:23 PM »
Personally, I use SpySweeper. I think it does the job pretty well. My machine was showing up clean with Ad-Aware, and when I first ran SpySweeper it found 64 pieces of spyware!
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Offline Van_M

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Re: OS4 on the pegasos
« Reply #84 on: June 12, 2004, 10:23:46 PM »
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Now what exactly are the important hardware differences between the A1 and Pegasos?


The pegasos2 uses the Marvell Discovery 2 northbridge which is somewhat newer technology. It doesn't have a real AGP bus, but relies on a PCI64 port adapted to AGP. Currently this isn't a problem since there are no amiga applications or games demanding enough, so that they'll bottleneck the bus. Pegasos2 also has 1 10/100 megabit and 1 gigabit ethernet (integrated inside the nb) and a firewire controller. Marvell's gigabit ethernet and the firewire controller are still unsupported by MOS, though. The Pegasos2 works with PC2100 memory rather than PC133 ECC/registered. This removes a big deal of trouble, finding the appropriate ram module.
--EDIT-- I forgot to add, that the Pegasos 1/2 have a working onboard sound chipset. It's not anything fancy like 5.1 but it does the job well (with the latest firmware upgrade).
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Offline Holley

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Re: OS4 on the pegasos
« Reply #85 on: June 12, 2004, 10:39:04 PM »
THANKYOU!  Thats exactly what I wanted to know.  The further I dig the more appealing a Peg looks, especially as the only downside (AGP) is something I'm not fussed about.  Am I right to think that neither will take a 4x or 8x card?

AGP may be academic in a couple of years anyway, with PCI Express on it's way ...
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Offline mikeymike

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Re: OS4 on the pegasos
« Reply #86 on: June 12, 2004, 10:43:24 PM »
I had an AGP4x graphics card work in an AGP 2x system ok.  There's a voltage difference between 8x and 4x, but AFAIK most AGP4x capable motherboards can use an AGP8x graphics card.
 

Offline Van_M

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Re: OS4 on the pegasos
« Reply #87 on: June 13, 2004, 08:29:20 AM »
Quote
I had an AGP4x graphics card work in an AGP 2x system ok. There's a voltage difference between 8x and 4x, but AFAIK most AGP4x capable motherboards can use an AGP8x graphics card.


The problem would be if you attempted to install an AGP 2x card on a motherboard that works with AGP 4x.
The 2x cards demand 5v power to work while the later demand 3.3v.
If the mobo doesn't support 2x then the card might "burn" the motherboad while trying to pull electricity that the board cannot provide. Nasty stuff, indeed!
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Offline Holley

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Re: OS4 on the pegasos
« Reply #88 on: June 13, 2004, 07:52:01 PM »
Mmmm, so careful choice is needed.  Lots of the Peg guys are running Radeon 9200s, but are waiting for proper 3D & TV out support (neither of which I'm fussed about :-)).  Lots of the XE guys seem to have Radeon 7000s, but that might be because they bought them a while back ... (?)
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Offline vic20owner

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Re: OS4 on the pegasos
« Reply #89 on: June 13, 2004, 09:17:00 PM »

Tired of spyware? Stop using Internet Explorer, and read the license agreement before installing sofware. Some legitimate companies install spyware but they disclose it in the agreement.  

Internet Exploder on the other hand.... don't even get me started.  I refuse to use it.  I'm using Firefox only.

I do still occasionally run SpyBot... just in case.

I don't understand how these companies get away with spyware, especially the exploit variety.  They hack our boxes to steal information, and call it a business.

Where's the Unibomber when you need him?

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