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Author Topic: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t  (Read 10670 times)

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Offline the_leander

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #44 from previous page: June 01, 2004, 02:04:33 PM »
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KennyR wrote:
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tpg wrote:
Uh-huh... I shouldn't have taken that job. I should have starved instead.


Doing work isn't the part I detest. We all have to do stuff we don't want, that's how civilisation works. But this layer of pretentiousness they have over the whole jobs industry really stifles it and makes entry really hard for the right kind of people, the kind of people I'd want working for me if I was an employer. Instead we just get people well trained in the art of glamorising every little mundane and banal thing in their lives and turning it into positive - but very false - things to say.

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People in some situations just don't have the choice, much as I sympathise with you.


They do have a choice in some situations: to be more honest and to put a cap on the industry bullsh!t fountain from concerted effort. But like that's ever going to happen... :-(


Pride and integrety are one thing, but you seem to take to extreems. I'm sorry if I seem rather angry in my last post but I consider things like food of greater importance, especially when I consider that my son also has to eat. So you have to be "Interview Kenny" for what? half an hour.. so what! You can take pride and have integrety in yer job but you got to be more flexable in yer approach to getting the job. As for glamorising the mundane, have you ever thought that that is what keeps them going? When I was a cleaner, I know it was what kept me going. The pay and conditions were crap, but I kept going and thats how I did.

(BTW cleaning is perhaps the most soul destroying job one can embark in, you do a great job, only for the people you clean for ruin it day after day after day. But I'm proud I stuck at it for 18 months until I got my nightshift factory job, shame that didn't last heh).
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Offline T_Bone

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2004, 03:01:39 PM »
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iamaboringperson wrote:
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Offline KennyRTopic starter

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2004, 06:43:12 PM »
Why does everyone think I'm young? For someone trying to get their first job, I'm horribly old (26 is old for someone who's never had a job, trust me). And that counts against me a lot, I'm certain.
 

Offline KennyRTopic starter

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2004, 06:45:59 PM »
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the_leander wrote:
(BTW cleaning is perhaps the most soul destroying job one can embark in, you do a great job, only for the people you clean for ruin it day after day after day. But I'm proud I stuck at it for 18 months until I got my nightshift factory job, shame that didn't last heh).


I wonder if that's as soul destroying as filling out form after form of meaningless fluff and getting no interviews, no interest, and only the ocassional "Sorry but we regret to inform..." letter while your health and looks are disappearing fast from having nothing to do all day, and you're heading fast towards the point where your qualifications will mean nothing and soon you'll have to pay back £5000 at £180 a month. That's really quite frustrating, to put it mildly.
 

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2004, 06:51:26 PM »
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KennyR wrote:
Why does everyone think I'm young? For someone trying to get their first job, I'm horribly old (26 is old for someone who's never had a job, trust me). And that counts against me a lot, I'm certain.
I'm 38 years old, as of today as a matter of fact, and your questions, statements, and actions make you seem very, very young.  I would not have guessed 18.  I can state unequivocably that I understand how you feel, and what you're going through, because I've been there.  Most of us have, so good luck.

Wayne
 

Offline KennyRTopic starter

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2004, 06:51:29 PM »
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T_Bone wrote:
What do you actually know about someone once you filter out the trendy "spice it up" cliches everyone includes?


Nothing, that's my point. It's unnatural selection. Survival of those with the biggest inflatable cheek pouch.
 

Offline AccyD

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #50 on: June 01, 2004, 09:08:20 PM »
@Kenny,

Although you and I have differing perspectives on most things I still see you as an intelligent & articulate person.

However, as mentioned by Wayne earlier you need to learn to "play the game" when applying for jobs a little more than you are doing at present.

Yes this does involve bending your principles and quieting your views whilst at the interview and application stages. Your attitude smacks of much more of the immature student rather than responsible potential employee. You need to listen to what others have said on this post and follow their guidance, believe me they have done it and so have I the methods you choose to express your views simply burn more bridges than they build.

You are now in the adult world and have to act appropriately, whilst your chosen trade / profession does not mean an external customer facing role, potential employers still want to employ someone who can work well within their existing team and will not rock the boat, this is what you have to convey at interview, not give the impression of someone who will fight (verbally) at any given opportunity.

Once you have been given a job you can gradually let your true personality come through and this is where you can show your true potential, but by this time you will have had chance to assess the organisation you are working for and the culture within, and thus hopefully you will have a more mature approach to your working life.

For example I am 23 (no uni degree but qualified accountant) and earn c.£30k pa plus co. car & PMI and a few other benefits, I am now in a position of recruiting people who are often twice my age, as stated by others, once the qualification barrier has been passed the next hurdle for potential interviewees is one of fitting in with the existing team, and frankly your attitude is the biggest thing that needs to change. I can find a thousand people with the same qualifications as you, but what will separate the applicants (& hence interviewees) is their personality, and whilst you appear bright & well educated you also come across as arrogant and a trouble causer.

Sorry for the blunt statement but this is what is holding you back, you need to play the game more, and in time you will learn when it is appropriate for you to air your views and when it is best to keep your mouth shut. This is only something you will learn in time as you are not selected for interviews.

I understand that this is not what you want to hear and you will feel that I have no backbone, but the truth is it is me, and people like me who do the recruiting for firms and you either play by our rules or don't play at all, for any one position I will have dozens of applicants but only space to see 4 or 5 for interview if i can save myself some time by weeding out those who I think won't fit I will do so. Prejuidiced it may be, that is the business we are in.

I am sure you will respond to this post with a sarcastic reply, but before you post please remember that I and the others who have posted on this thread are only trying to give you the benefit of our experience - not trying to pull down your views or opinions, if we didn't care we would not bother to post.

I wish you well with your job hunting and hope you find the transition from student to worker a pleasant one, but if it doesn't happen as soon as you wish try and do some voluntary work both for something to put on your CV and to give you some real life experience - potential employers will look on this with high regard.

Best of luck !!
 

Offline the_leander

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #51 on: June 01, 2004, 10:27:27 PM »
Quote

KennyR wrote:
Quote
the_leander wrote:
(BTW cleaning is perhaps the most soul destroying job one can embark in, you do a great job, only for the people you clean for ruin it day after day after day. But I'm proud I stuck at it for 18 months until I got my nightshift factory job, shame that didn't last heh).


I wonder if that's as soul destroying as filling out form after form of meaningless fluff and getting no interviews, no interest, and only the ocassional "Sorry but we regret to inform..." letter while your health and looks are disappearing fast from having nothing to do all day, and you're heading fast towards the point where your qualifications will mean nothing and soon you'll have to pay back £5000 at £180 a month. That's really quite frustrating, to put it mildly.


Yes it is a lot more soul destroying (try it, you won't like it!), and yes its very frustrating to get "Sorry but we regret to inform you..." style letters. Though I have to say its more frustrating when they simply don't bother with the above style letter.
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Offline cecilia

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #52 on: June 01, 2004, 10:37:29 PM »
Quote

KennyR wrote:
Why does everyone think I'm young? For someone trying to get their first job, I'm horribly old (26 is old for someone who's never had a job, trust me). And that counts against me a lot, I'm certain.
you are younger than me, so that makes you "young". not immature, just young.
I know what you mean, however.
After I left graduate school (experiments, don't ask  :lol: ) I was told that I was overeducated for the jobs I was looking for. they fully expected me to get bored and leave.

well, duh! So, that is one of the reasons I became an artist. I don't really have the personality for office work. I love working alone. and. being a very disciplined person, I am completely self-motivated. I don't need and in fact hate people telling me what to do. I know EXACTLY what I have to do.

That, in fact, is a requirement for special effects. no one has time to hold your hand, you have to solve the puzzle on your own. and do it as quickly as possible.

the reason I'm going on about this boring aspect of my career is because it takes some effort to find the best place to apply your abilities. I've done lots of different things over the years - all creative and artisitic in some sense, but sometimes not very fun. I've tried to see each as a learning experience as well as an adventure. and because most of the jobs were fairly short, if it was unpleasant i knew it would be over soon.

at this point widen your net. try different things, just for the hell of it. don't look at any one job as THE JOB of the century. Each or any job should just be for trying on. plus this gives you a chance to see if you like the people who work there.

I really do understand how soul destroying this can be, but even great and talented people like Asimov got rejection slips. alot of people are just TOO dumb to appreciate intelligence and quality.
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Offline iamaboringperson

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #53 on: June 02, 2004, 02:57:06 AM »
Dude, I knew a woman who was earning 25K(+super) when she was 18. That was 5 years ago! Imagine what she'd be earning now! :-o
 

Offline macto

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #54 on: June 04, 2004, 01:44:34 AM »
If integrity is a sign of immaturity, then I shall remain immature.

That said, you will have to make comprimises if you want to maintain your integrity.  You will have to save up for those rainy days, because they will hit you harder.  You may have to settle for contract work or the so called 'survival' jobs.  Working for yourself may even be viable, if you have the ability to attract clients.  And attracting clients, not building a fancy laboratory, is the issue.  (You can secure loans, deal with an inadequately equipment to start out, or work a bit outside of your field.)

I'm guessing that your history is more of an issue.  You probably don't have many contacts inside of your industry, and it seems like that is the only reliable way to find a job.  The lack of prior work experience may also be an issue (I was working for my university from the first summer onwards, and even that seems inadequate).
 

Offline mikeymike

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #55 on: June 04, 2004, 09:18:47 AM »
KennyR, have you considered that maybe you won't be able to get a job along this career line?  You've got a degree, there are a lot of unrelated jobs that simply ask you to have a degree.

Don't give me a tonne of flack about integrity, you have got to find a job, simple as that.  Or stay with mum and dad for the rest of your life.
 

Offline macto

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #56 on: June 04, 2004, 01:30:20 PM »
There are a lot of people with integrity.  The fact that none of them are attracted to this thread (or to politics) should not dissuade you. ;-)

When you are applying for work, there are three types of resumes: honest ones, ones where the applicant over represents themself, and ones where applicants lie.  Honest ones don't attract attention, but they will get the odd nibble.  Outright lies will probably be detected in the interview and will probably get you fired if anyone finds out.  Over representing yourself seems to be the middle ground which everyone is satisfied with.  The 'probably's in the outright lies sentences turn into meer possibilities, so it is somehow okay.  I don't think it is okay, but I'm clearly in the minority.  Then again, my resume may be impressive enough that there is enough nibbling for me to get a job (though I don't see why it would be all that impressive).

I think the problem is in the application process: you are not going to get far if you pull a listing off a job board and submit a resume.  At least I have found the miss rate too high.  I have had far more success asking people directly, or having someone ask for me.
 

Offline Glaucus

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #57 on: June 05, 2004, 03:04:52 AM »
@Kenny,

Start up a chemistry forum, and make millions off the ads.  ;-)

Well, Kenny, I think you need to go on a trip, get drunk and let your hair down (figuratively speaking). Perhaps Amsterdam would be a good destination? Hang out with Speel? Whatever, you seem to be very frustrated and set on a one way track. You getta jump off before things derail.

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Offline KennyRTopic starter

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #58 on: June 07, 2004, 11:17:24 PM »
Well, another promising placement turned down without even requesting an interview. The most promising in a long while in fact. It only took them a day to refuse it.

Funny how your home changes from a castle to a prison when you've been unemployed for a long time. This is really, really starting to get me down.
 

Offline T_Bone

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #59 on: June 08, 2004, 06:17:08 AM »
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KennyR wrote:
Well, another promising placement turned down without even requesting an interview. The most promising in a long while in fact. It only took them a day to refuse it.

Funny how your home changes from a castle to a prison when you've been unemployed for a long time. This is really, really starting to get me down.


Come to North Carolina, plenty of jobs here, despite what you hear. (unless you're looking for an IT job.) Hell, you could walk right in to one of our evil Pharmecuitical companies and be working tomorrow. ;-)

(Then we can work on converting you into a moneygrubbing Republican ;-))
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