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Author Topic: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t  (Read 10677 times)

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Offline KennyRTopic starter

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This crap really p1sses me off. Why is it every job application form wants to know absolutely everything about me? Work (and unemployment) history, hobbies, age, marital status, interests... what the hell have these got to do with my competence? I'm applying to work for someone, not trying to be a sperm donor, for god's sake. As I see it, the employer doesn't need to know about me, and doesn't really have the right to know about me either. I just wish they'd butt out and just fuxxing take my qualifications of evidence of my competence and dedication - I only spent most of my life getting them! :-x

I'm a boring guy who's unlikely ever to be very friendly and even less likely to socialise, but I can do the work and will do it, and better than most people ever could. So why the hell do they want all this trivial and superficial rubbish most people lie through their teeth about anyway?

Work is work. People do it for money. The sooner these companies learn that and stop blowing this bullsh!t avalanche all over us and giving jobs to better liars rather than better workers, the better for everyone.

Grrrr! :pissed:
 

Offline iamaboringperson

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2004, 02:24:44 AM »
:-)



Quote
So why the hell do they want all this trivial and superficial rubbish most people lie through their teeth about anyway?
It's mostly not trivial or superficial.

It's virtually all optional, anyway.

During the interview, if they ask about your marital status(for example), and you reply with something like: "Why, is that important?" - or - "What an interesting question, why do you ask?" they are likely to find you intelligent and be more likely to employ you. (Always ask 1 or 2 questions at a job interview BTW)


It's quite understandable that an employer wants to know about whom they are going to be employing - you could be a psychopath, or a thief.

Much of it is only there to get an idea as to how intelligent the person is, and what kind of person they are(are they honest, for example), so that they can feel more comfortable in hiring you.
 

Offline KennyRTopic starter

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2004, 02:26:40 AM »
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It's quite understandable that an employer wants to know about whom they are going to be employing - you could be a psychopath, or a thief.


Then I would have a criminal record and would be forced to tell them this by law. The rest I don't need to tell them. All they need to know is that I can do the job. To be perfectly honest I could enjoy paint drying as a hobby - it has absolutely nothing to do with them and no bearing on my ability to work.

It's not optional, by the way. Miss it out and I might as well not apply for jobs at all.
 

Offline iamaboringperson

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2004, 02:35:17 AM »
It depends on the job. What's the job?

If it's shoving stuff in boxes all day long(in a pre-defined order), they probably want to know they can trust you - you can tell alot about a person at an interview, and usually you particular answers don't matter.


If the job was something that required more skill and intelligence, it's easy to understand how they would want to see how you perform during the interview.

Perhaps the job requires people skills - during the interview, if you can't face up to a panel without shaking and 'umming and arring' ... well, you can probably see why they wouldn't employ you.

I once went for a telemarketing job, for example, that day I was tired, I was nervous, I couldn't think of what to say - even though I was ment to be talking about myself - and it was obvious that I couldn't do the job (however if I had of been feeling better, they would have seen a very different me)

Another example was a job that really required me to be able to socialize - and be honest. I did extremely well at that interiview. I didn't get the job, however I was told over the phone later that day, that I would be put on their list just incase there was anything coming up in the future.

I've done some interviewer skills training, and I realize that there is more to it than just getting all of the write answers filled out in the right boxes.

 

Offline KennyRTopic starter

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2004, 02:47:50 AM »
The job is a lab technician. It's a skilled job but hardly needs a lot of people skills - being told what to do is most of it. Knowing my way around chemistry and being able to solve problems for people is also important. No problems there. I don't see why they want to know my life story.

Quote
I once went for a telemarketing job, for example, that day I was tired, I was nervous, I couldn't think of what to say - even though I was ment to be talking about myself - and it was obvious that I couldn't do the job (however if I had of been feeling better, they would have seen a very different me)


If they ask me a question about the job, I'll be able to answer it. I'd be able to tell them why conjugated polymers conduct electricity in great detail, or how reversed phase HPLC works.

If they ask me things like "If you were a biscuit, what kind would you be?" or any of that meaningless psychobabble, then I'll be screwed, because I'm a practical thinker and don't have room in my head for that kind of arty farty mince. Personal questions will be deflected too, because as far as I'm concerned, I cooperate better with people if I have the advantage that they don't know what kind of a person I am. I like to be left alone personally.
 

Offline iamaboringperson

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2004, 03:28:08 AM »
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If they ask me things like "If you were a biscuit, what kind would you be?" or any of that meaningless psychobabble, then I'll be screwed,...
The sort of questions you can expect are (EG):

- Why do you wish to work here?
- What do you have to offer us?
- Might you be continueing study in the future?
- What are your strengths? / What are your weaknesses?

They might also like to find out if you would prefer to work elsewhere in the future(next 10 years for example), where are you headed?

I've never been asked any tricky psycho. questions.

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as far as I'm concerned, I cooperate better with people if I have the advantage that they don't know what kind of a person I am.
Which is a problem for them.
 

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2004, 04:11:06 AM »
@kennyr,

I hope that you don't misunderstand this, but based on your attitude about this stuff, it would be very difficult for anyone to hire you, and I'll tell you why.

Job applications and the like are very much miniature psychological evaluations.  There are millions of people out there who are qualified to do the actual job (any job) that you're applying for, but there's a hell of a lot more to it than the basic qualifications.  If there weren't, there would be zero unemployment.  

For example, a prospective employer needs to know, are you an arse or a fun-loving guy with hightened family morals?  Did you waste your youth building plastic models (if the job was model making, that would be a great thing) or did you spend your school years doing extra-curricular school activities such as high-school politics (good for political or public relations positions) or the debate team (good for sales and political positions)?

Are you rude and abrasive?  Are you a slacker or a ass-buster?  Remember... Work places are many people crammed into a small area for the express purpose of creating or performing a task.  If you don't get along well with your peers, or you think you're above them, or whatever, that disrupts the entire team.

Imagine if you will, you and "Polyhead" both applying for the same job.  Imagine that like you, "Polyhead" has all of the qualifications to do the job itself (as do thousands of other people).  The difference between hired and not is very often how well you answer those stupid questions.

The biggest question in the mind of the employer is, "which of these two people do I believe would best represent you and your company to the customer"?  If you both apply for the same job, and both have similar basic qualifications, how else would you expect a prospective employer make a logical choice?

In most cases, the ONLY way to do that would be to ask stupid questions on an application.  In 1985, things were different and interviewers could use their "gut instinct" during the interview to decide who was best suited for a position.  Nowadays, it's quite possible that someone might sue a company for not hiring them, claiming racial, gender, sexual preference, or whatever discrimination.  If you're a company and you have something on paper, you can prove it was not based on anything personal whatsoever.  Otherwise, it can get really, really messy.

In short, those who answer the stupid questions well are worth considering.  Those who {bleep} about the stupid questions are not.  

Answering the questions well depends on your ability to evaluate the position itself.  Your ability to answer these stupid questions well reflects 110% on your ability to both think on the fly as well as to be a professional.  After all, answering a bunch of stupid questions is probably the easiest thing you'd EVER be asked to do by a boss after you were employed later.

Your basic qualifications are not even really relevant at that point, because when they're interviewing you, they already KNOW that you're technically proficient (otherwise why bother with an interview)?

It's really that simple, and the person doing the interview is normally a very good judge of character.  While they do make mistakes, they can usually tell in the first three minutes whether you're going to work well with their other employees or not.

It's all just a game, but if you want to get paid, you have to play it.

Wayne
 

Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2004, 10:52:31 AM »
Quote

KennyR wrote:
This crap really p1sses me off. Why is it every job application form wants to know absolutely everything about me? Work (and unemployment) history, hobbies, age, marital status, interests... what the hell have these got to do with my competence? I'm applying to work for someone, not trying to be a sperm donor, for god's sake. As I see it, the employer doesn't need to know about me, and doesn't really have the right to know about me either. I just wish they'd butt out and just fuxxing take my qualifications of evidence of my competence and dedication - I only spent most of my life getting them! :-x

I'm a boring guy who's unlikely ever to be very friendly and even less likely to socialise, but I can do the work and will do it, and better than most people ever could. So why the hell do they want all this trivial and superficial rubbish most people lie through their teeth about anyway?

Work is work. People do it for money. The sooner these companies learn that and stop blowing this bullsh!t avalanche all over us and giving jobs to better liars rather than better workers, the better for everyone.

Grrrr! :pissed:
Work's for life (or should be for life), KennyR. And working solely becomes a rarity these days.

btw. grow up KennyR.
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline dezignersrepublic

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2004, 05:20:27 PM »
A friend of mine in recruitment said that the reason why they have the type of questions that Kenny doesnt like is it's a way of reducing the number of applications.  That way the lazy people see those types of questions and don't bother filling in the application, and that way employers use that as a first pass filtration system.

--
 

Offline cecilia

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2004, 05:31:06 PM »
hey, Kenny, while I agree that the "interview" is a giant pain in the a55, and I personally hate all that bullsh.it, it seems to be the way things are. Wayne basically has it right.

what I do - when I have the energy for it - is the turn the tables and interview THEM. I basically want to know if their company is good enough for ME. what do I get If I work at their place? does it satisfy MY creative needs, my ambitions, my goals?
Of course, I have Emmys, so I can use that to my benefit. But I've only recently come to the conclusion that I need to push that. Previously, I was too humble. And that wasn't doing me any good.

Speel, I disagree that the trend is moving away from self-employment. When the economy is bad, such choices happen more often. mostly out of dire need.
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Offline that_punk_guy

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2004, 06:05:22 PM »
Quote
dezignersrepublic wrote:
A friend of mine in recruitment said that the reason why they have the type of questions that Kenny doesnt like is it's a way of reducing the number of applications.  That way the lazy people see those types of questions and don't bother filling in the application, and that way employers use that as a first pass filtration system.


Based on my recent experiences I have to agree.

The Job Centre advisors told me that to apply for one position, I'd have to send a CV and covering letter, which I did. A week later, the company sent me an application form. I filled that in and sent it off, then got a letter saying I was now on the database and would be contacted prior to any media advertisements about any new opportunities. No mention was made of the position I originally applied for.

I then missed a call from them and on my voicemail was a message asking that I call back. I did, and was told the same thing that was in the letter and that I may be called in the near future about a position.

Maybe a day later, she called about a vacancy. It sounded good, and she said she'd send some information out. The information arrives and it's the exact same information she gave me over the phone. I then have to call her up again to arrange an interview...

Perseverence must be 90% of the game. I still didn't get the job, though. Missed a day of heavenly unskilled labour for it too, I'd have been a good £70 better off if I hadn't bothered.

 

Offline The_Editor

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2004, 06:26:14 PM »

Answer is simple..

DONT work for someone else.

Start up on your own..

but wait ... Your a chemist (did I get that right ?)  What the hell would you know about sales ?  Marketing ?

I guess your'd better employ someone ...

Now ...  how do we choose who's gonna be best for YOUR company ?  they all seem qualified.

Yours is a fledgling company,  make a bad choice and ... well ... Your'll probably go down the pan.  You can't just sack underperforming workers these days.


i'm sure your getting the drift of what I'm driving at.


Yup .. It Sucks,  BIG TIME.  Especially when it nearly ALWAYS turns out to be .. NOT WHAT you know

BUT WHO you know.

Cecilia is right ..to a degree .. Throws em off guard and shows YOU have vision..  Push it too far though and they'll think.. Huh ..what a smart ass.


Good luck.
The Reluctant Pom
 

Offline KennyRTopic starter

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2004, 06:56:12 PM »
@the_editor

Nah, self-employment is not an option. I'd need millions to start up a business in what I'm trained for - equipment, labs, chemicals, accreditation, insurance... And then there's the point that I'm just a graduate and haven't made any decisions more important than passing an exam.

Self-employed people usually work very hard and get little back. I'd like to work in the reverse of that situation. :)
 

Offline KennyRTopic starter

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2004, 06:58:47 PM »
@All

I can't do it. All this stuff is pretentious above belief. It's like accepting the person who has the biggest feather in their hat. I'm just not into that kind of thing, and I'm sure thousands of able people are just the same. Employers are missing out on a lot.

I don't believe for a second that CVs ever properly reflect the person they're written for. There's more chance that Hollwood action films show real life, or that catwalk fashions will actually be worn by real people. It's all p1ss and wind, and I just can't stand that. It's a game I'm not willing to play, and if that means I can't get a job - tough luck.
 

Offline The_Editor

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Re: Work is work - or why job application forms and CVs are bullsh!t
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2004, 07:00:24 PM »
Good point.

Which is EXACTLY why I never bothered to buy my own truck.

Too much hassle for not much extra reward.

But then ...  Speculate to accumulate.
The Reluctant Pom