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AuthorTopic: Request about OS Development  (Read 8183 times)

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Offline number6

Re: Request about OS Development
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2017, 09:03:10 PM »
Quote from: kreciu;833620
IF that is true, then we can't do nothing about it, but IF it is not... then I don't know why not.


Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions from public information that exists.
In that vein, if you devote the time to read what follows, you might conclude there are yet
other factors involved:

Source

I outline in latter pages, where applicable, certain important dates that are on the horizon which might affect change.
Regardless, enjoy your hobby. This series of filings merely illustrates that some people are forced to spend both their time and money on "other" things currently.

#6
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Request about OS Development
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2017, 10:25:20 PM »
Quote from: kreciu;833618
I know, but somewhere behind my head I have this sentiment that AmigaOS could takeover whole world :).


According to Commodore UK there were 5 million Amiga sold in UK and USA.

Sony sold 100 million PlayStation, 155 million PlayStation 2, 80 million PlayStation 3, 67 million PlayStation 4.

Amiga has no hope of taking over anything.
 

Offline AmigaNG

Re: Request about OS Development
« Reply #62 on: November 30, 2017, 11:01:41 AM »
Quote from: psxphill;833624
According to Commodore UK there were 5 million Amiga sold in UK and USA. Sony sold 100 million PlayStation, 155 million PlayStation 2, 80 million PlayStation 3, 67 million PlayStation 4.
 Amiga has no hope of taking over anything.


I do think some people aim way to high for the amiga market, I think if we could get the community back to where it was in the 90s it would be victory, which is now regarded a small community and would only make up around 1% of the computer market today, but still be a thrive little community for us to have and I think there is still a small chance that such a community could be built.

Offline stefcep2

Re: Request about OS Development
« Reply #63 on: November 30, 2017, 11:13:18 AM »
Quote from: AmigaNG;833633
I do think some people aim way to high for the amiga market, I think if we could get the community back to where it was in the 90s it would be victory, which is now regarded a small community and would only make up around 1% of the computer market today, but still be a thrive little community for us to have and I think there is still a small chance that such a community could be built.


1%?  I seriously doubt it is that high.
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: Request about OS Development
« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2017, 07:00:24 PM »
Quote from: AmigaNG;833633
I do think some people aim way to high for the amiga market, I think if we could get the community back to where it was in the 90s it would be victory, which is now regarded a small community and would only make up around 1% of the computer market today, but still be a thrive little community for us to have and I think there is still a small chance that such a community could be built.


Do you have any idea how large 1% of the current computer market is today?  You obviously don't because it's in the millions.  Linux has 3.37% of the entire market currently and in 2014 there were an estimated 14 million Linux users.

There can't be more than 5,000 Amiga users worldwide at the moment, so either you need to brush up on your math skills or bring your expectations back down to the real world.

It would be different if the Amiga had something to offer the general consumer, but it doesn't.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Request about OS Development
« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2017, 09:49:25 PM »
Quote from: AmigaNG;833633
I think there is still a small chance that such a community could be built.


Build it and see. But how will it be different to Linux?
 

Offline gregthecanuck

Re: Request about OS Development
« Reply #66 on: December 01, 2017, 12:58:16 AM »
Quote from: psxphill;833645
Build it and see. But how will it be different to Linux?


I think that we need to let this play out. There are a lot of people looking for a simple desktop experience. Other operating systems (i.e. Windows) are getting huge and piggish.

The snappiness and compact setup of Amiga operating systems is attractive... especially with the new Vampires coming soon with 512MB memory and full HDMI support.
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: Request about OS Development
« Reply #67 on: December 01, 2017, 03:35:22 AM »
Quote from: gregthecanuck;833651
I think that we need to let this play out.



It's like an old gold mine that played out years ago.  There's nothing left but a few scraps....
 

Offline gregthecanuck

Re: Request about OS Development
« Reply #68 on: December 01, 2017, 06:24:45 AM »
Now where did I put my 'grumpy old man' GIF....   ;-)

It appears AmigaKit just sold out their most recent batch of Vampires in one day... again. When the standalone comes out that will start another wave of adoption.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 06:27:37 AM by gregthecanuck »
 

Offline polyp2000

Re: Request about OS Development
« Reply #69 on: December 01, 2017, 10:04:09 AM »
Quote from: Papa6;833382


I have Amiga forever & I bought a licensed, legal version of AO 4.1 FE.

This may sound stupid but can the OS be developed for the x86_64 CPU's?


Yes it can , only Hyperion dont think thats a good business plan.
Quote from: Papa6;833382

But an x86_64 version, I could enjoy multibooting into the OS on my system at home.


You any many others desire this , but due to the Hyperions stance on this the only way you are going to be able to achieve this is using AROS . An Open Source implementation of AmigaOS.

In the long run AROS will still be standing when Hyperion are dead and buried as the source code is legally available and distributable to the public. Theres also the fact that commodity X86 hardware is much less expensive. This makes the barrier to entry a much more reasonable proposition .

But Hyperion dont care about that nor listen to the wishes of the Amiga Community.

Offline stefcep2

Re: Request about OS Development
« Reply #70 on: December 01, 2017, 11:17:52 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;833617
And why exactly should it do that? Os development did not stop 25 years ago. AmigaOs is illl-designed for modern requirements. I always call it a "toy operating system" because it lacks any services that would be important today. Even if - the market works today different than it did 25 years ago.
Back then, computers were used by hobbyitsts, hackers, gamers, freaks... today, they are a commodity. You cannot expect a "modern user" to know what a .info file is, or how to "lay out" icons. It's all the wrong concept.



Yeah, right. And this "worry about the pesky details later" approach was exactly the reason why the PPC experiment is right now where it is. "PPC is the future, let's worry about the applications later".

You need to understand that *today* the market works differently. Nobody worries about the hardware anymore. You have it anyhow. The apps are what matters. Commodity for the user. You don't buy a computer today because it is "cool hardware". You buy it because "it looks nice" and "it runs the stuff I need". It is reduced to things the average user understands: "How thin is it" (that is currently what people seem to want) and "does it do what I need".

AmigaOs cannot do that. The Amiga story as a "useful computer" ended last century already - as I say, this ship sailed away a long time ago.


http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a16010/30-year-old-computer-runs-school-heat/
 

Offline sim085

Re: Request about OS Development
« Reply #71 on: December 01, 2017, 11:32:54 AM »
Is there any OS feature which is better in AmigaOS than in Linux or Unix? And I am not speaking about the 80s. I mean now; something that Amiga OS still does better than the other more developed operating systems out there. Something which is fundamental to AmigaOS and done differently in other operating systems and AmigaOS way of doing this is still better than how the other operating systems are doing it.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 11:36:15 AM by sim085 »
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: Request about OS Development
« Reply #72 on: December 01, 2017, 11:35:10 AM »
Quote from: gregthecanuck;833657
Now where did I put my 'grumpy old man' GIF....   ;-)

It appears AmigaKit just sold out their most recent batch of Vampires in one day... again. When the standalone comes out that will start another wave of adoption.


as others said. amiga is good for what it does, because of legacy and backwards compatibility. and it applies to vampire/apolloas much if not more then to the other options.

now, throw out shared memory space and messaging by pointers in order to get some memory protection..

throw out amiga os legacy balast for contemporary features, you will lose that compatibility and will get some sort of linux distribution. already enough genuinely missing components of amiga os, such as networking are just ports from other systems, for instance bsd. i cant imagine a realistic way to achieve a new "amiga os" other than simply putting together a choice of existing open source software. btw, it will become as bloated according to the features you expect. there are poeople that complain aros takes 10mb disk space (without fonts) and doesnt run on bare 68000, you know?

considering above, there are the vlid options:

1. stay with what you have or follow the consevative improvement patch based on ganuine sources, as proposed by thor and olsen.

2. design an open os as compatible with the genuine and incorporating as much modern features as possible, which is aros.

all else is insane.
 

Offline gregthecanuck

Re: Request about OS Development
« Reply #73 on: December 01, 2017, 11:57:33 AM »
@wawrzon

Well the hardware has to come first. As more Vampires ship there will be more pushes to advance the operating system... and finance updates.

I am backing both the Thor/Olsen OS3.x updates AND the AROS updates as much as possible. I think in the long run there is opportunity for cooperation. I would suggest Hyperion start experimenting with open-sourcing parts of OS3.1.
 

Offline NorthWay

Re: Request about OS Development
« Reply #74 on: December 01, 2017, 12:55:52 PM »
If you insist on going "modern" I'd take a deep breath and wait and see what you can achieve when/if Mill Computing delivers their new architecture. I find them extremely interesting.