AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)

[Iggy]

I love how both sides passive agressivly claims the other camp is raving lunatics/fanbois/zealots.

For the most part you all come off equally bad.

The only intresting part of this thread is the exchanges between amigakit and Kremlar.
Substance instead of mudslinging makes for intresting read. Who would have thought.

"Your a loony" - Monty Python :banana:

The only substance here was the initial announcement.
Amigakit just didn't want anyone misrepresenting their price range.

The rest of it has been yet another displaced Moobunny thread.

[Rob]

I'm not sure I understand your point.

Simply the point that ARIX hasn't been seen yet so can't have yet shown anything.  I fail to understand why that's been deemed so offensive.

P.S.

I was probably one of the first people to register MorphOS for Efika and only rushed to buy one because MorphOS was being released and had some neat new features and Sputnik browser.

[Rob]

Genrally when people say "Your point is?" it's because they do not understand the point you are failing to make, yes.

Too busy wanting to feel offended to actually take in what I said.  

Hyperion and it's various paid and unaid mouthpieces are liars?



Your words Rob

I don't seem to recall that I said in this thread that anyone had lied.

1. Yes.
2. Never had nor heard of that problem before you montioned it.  Seing as most about else who has used ARIX is under NDA - therefore cannot mention anything - are you sure you aren't just making that up?
3. Yes.

I think it was my Toshiba Celeron 1.8ghz based Laptop with Intel video that it failed to even boot on, and the Core2 system with a Radeon 4670 that I was stuck with %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ty slow VESA mode with some serious graphical glitches.
On other systems I tried in the past, mainly 32-bit Athlon with GeForce 2 video I have had no problems watsoever and there was a Dell system I tried once too and had sucess.
None of this is made up.

Just curious if ARIX will make such a hit and miss factor a thing of the past since, that presumably is the point of using Linux underpinnings.

[persia]

Well if they wrote the code correctly moving to ARM or X86 shouldn't be that hard.  Apple did both.

Anyway, we'll have to wait for Anubis/ARIX to see if they have an answer...

It is about 20 years too late in regards to porting to x86, IMO.

I fail to see what it would buy us, even if it was easy to do.  You're still having to use an emulator to run legacy programs, and you are never going to get all of said legacy software ported to the new architecture.  At least with my PPC "Amiga" hardware, whether it be MOS or OS4, I still can run the vast, vast majority of old Amiga programs without having to use an emulator.

You'd have an Amiga like OS on commodity hardware, which would lower the costs of entry, for sure, though.

Smells like AROS to me, IMHO.

[Iggy]

Man!
Can we go off on some tangents or what?

Back to the topic of the thread.

OK AmigaKit, if we don't have the price range right, what IS it likely to be?

[Megamig]

If Trevor followed any economic sense or logic he wouldn't be in the Amiga market at all.
The fact that he decided to ignore sense and spend his money the way he wanted to - rather than the way many would deem sensible - is something I and many other AmigaOS 4 users are very grateful to him for.

Firstly if it is not affordable do not associate it with Amiga - Trevor has gone more Apple than Amiga when it comes to pricing.

Trevor knows full well about economics, but he chose to spend his money the way he wanted to and benefited hundreds of others in the process, and for that I applaud him.

Great for Trevor if he wants to spend $50,000,000 on a motherboard. But to suggest that he is in it for charity is a joke. It is overpriced and consumers are not blame for his R&D budget blowout. However, there will always be people with more money than sense -- like those who purchased a Amiga from Commodore USA!

[Andre.Siegel]

It should be noted, though, that a quick Google search suggests these boards start at about £280 including VAT, much more than an equivalently specced "normal" motherboard.

Prices in the UK tend to be a bit higher than on the European mainland but you can definitely find much better pricing for long-term available mainboards.

Since I mentioned Kontron, here is an example:
http://www.dpieshop.com/kontron-ktq87mitx-industrial-miniitx-intel-core-i3-i5-i7-socket-lga1150-motherboard-p-1281.html

230 GBP (incl. VAT) - This price is for single unit purchases! And this is certainly not the lowest price I have seen.

If A-Eon or Amigakit were to use these, they'd have people complaining about having to use years-old x86 motherboards when there are much cheaper brand-new ones out there.

So, your argument appears to be that because some people might perhaps object to pay 50% more for extra durable and long-term available hardware, it is better to continue to sell hardware that costs 1000% more (and is notably slower).

Please do correct me if I misunderstood.

Either way, they can't please everybody, so better to do what they are doing I think - make a design decision (i.e. custom PPC motherboards) and stick to it. Better than to keep changing direction.

Failure to learn from mistakes and to adapt in a timely manner has killed many former industry leaders, including Commodore.

If you realize that an on-going project will not help you reach your goals afterall, I see no point in "sticking with" what you realized is ultimately a bad plan.

The question is what the motivation of the A-Eon management is. If the goal is to sell premium specialty mainboards to hobby enthusiasts, then I see no point to switch to x86 processors (for future custom mainboard designs) or to pre-designed industrial mainboards.  

If, however, the company's primary mission is to nurture the development and market adoption of an operating system, then the situation would be very different, of course.

[Rob]

Man!
Can we go off on some tangents or what?

Back to the topic of the thread.

OK AmigaKit, if we don't have the price range right, what IS it likely to be?

Lets hope the design phase cost less than that of the X1000 and price difference isn't solely the cost of the CPU.

[spirantho]

So, your argument appears to be that because some people might perhaps object to pay 50% more for extra durable and long-term available hardware, it is better to continue to sell hardware that costs 1000% more (and is notably slower).

The X1000 is the highest end, the Sams are much cheaper than that. Slower, yes, but still enjoyable and usable (I know this because I enjoy and use my little Sam440).

My argument is that whatever AmigaKit or A-Eon do, they will never make everybody happy, and there will always be people complaining - and at least they're doing something.

And regarding the comment above about Trevor doing it out of charity: there is a world of difference between supporting your hobby in a way which benefits many, like he did, and simply giving money away. Amazing that somebody who actually promises something to further the OS, and then follows up on his promises, gets slated so much. Trevor has helped many Amiga fans by his actions and he deserves to be praised for this.

Anyway, this is argument has gone on long enough and is getting nowhere, it's been done to death already in the past. I'm taking no further part in it.

[danwood]

Firstly if it is not affordable do not associate it with Amiga

Did you ever see the price of big-box Amigas back in the day?  The A500/600/1200 were cheap, but the big-box Amigas make the X1000 etc. look semi-affordable, it wasn't totally a budget machine.

[antikk]

   And the funny part is that many of the loudest complainers, are mos and aros fanboys. Who will never get os4.

 

    My argument is that whatever AmigaKit or A-Eon do, they will never make everybody happy, and there will always be people complaining - and at least they're doing something.

[Kremlar]

230 GBP (incl. VAT) - This price is for single unit purchases! And this is certainly not the lowest price I have seen.

So, your argument appears to be that because some people might perhaps object to pay 50% more for extra durable and long-term available hardware, it is better to continue to sell hardware that costs 1000% more (and is notably slower).

 
 I wouldn't even pay that.  For the extra money you'd pay for these boards I'd just buy more stock of standard boards to hold in inventory.

[nicholas]

nu

Too busy wanting to feel offended to actually take in what I said.  



I don't seem to recall that I said in this thread that anyone had lied.




I think it was my Toshiba Celeron 1.8ghz based Laptop with Intel video that it failed to even boot on, and the Core2 system with a Radeon 4670 that I was stuck with %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ty slow VESA mode with some serious graphical glitches.
On other systems I tried in the past, mainly 32-bit Athlon with GeForce 2 video I have had no problems watsoever and there was a Dell system I tried once too and had sucess.
None of this is made up.

Just curious if ARIX will make such a hit and miss factor a thing of the past since, that presumably is the point of using Linux underpinnings.

You didn't boot ARIX on your Core2 nor did you boot it on your Athlon Rob, so what is the point you are trying to make?

[nicholas]

   And the funny part is that many of the loudest complainers, are mos and aros fanboys. Who will never get os4.

 

Except that I'm a Hyperion customer who uses OS4. Other than that your analysis is spot on.

edit: Reading through this thread again, the people you are complaining about are neither MOS nor AROS fanboys, so what was your point again?

[Rob]

nu

You didn't boot ARIX on your Core2 nor did you boot it on your Athlon Rob, so what is the point you are trying to make?

Oh sorry I was was talking about AROS.  I was posting a little late last night sorry I was a bit unclear and didn't mention AROS specificly.  Certainly never even claimed to have seen ARIX let alone run it.  So sorry for any confusion


What I'm asking is does the ARIX implementation with it's underlying Linux driver base allow it to run on any system without having to carefully select what hardware you use.  I assume that's the goal.

[Andre.Siegel]

I wouldn't even pay that.  For the extra money you'd pay for these boards I'd just buy more stock of standard boards to hold in inventory.

I am afraid you have not thought this through. I would recommend that you talk to business owners about the immense difficulty of accurately predicting consumer demand several years in advance.

There are huge financial risks involved if you overestimate demand which will need to be considered when you choose a price. If you cannot sell 30% of your inventory or you need to sell for 30% below your initial investment just to get rid of all units, which would not be an unusual percentage, you would have to choose a roughly 50% higher price just to cover that.

Also, financing inventory and storage cost money as well. The bigger your inventory, the higher your storage costs, etc.

In addition to all of this, there are also huge issues with warranty replacements once a product has been out of production for two years which is not the case if you deal with long-term available hardware.

From a business perspective, going the consumer mainboard route would most likely be more expensive as well as much riskier.