Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)  (Read 34299 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Andre.Siegel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Feb 2003
  • Posts: 151
    • Show only replies by Andre.Siegel
    • http://www.power2people.org
Re: AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)
« Reply #134 from previous page: January 12, 2014, 02:59:15 PM »
Quote from: Kremlar;757014
I wouldn't even pay that.  For the extra money you'd pay for these boards I'd just buy more stock of standard boards to hold in inventory.

I am afraid you have not thought this through. I would recommend that you talk to business owners about the immense difficulty of accurately predicting consumer demand several years in advance.

There are huge financial risks involved if you overestimate demand which will need to be considered when you choose a price. If you cannot sell 30% of your inventory or you need to sell for 30% below your initial investment just to get rid of all units, which would not be an unusual percentage, you would have to choose a roughly 50% higher price just to cover that.

Also, financing inventory and storage cost money as well. The bigger your inventory, the higher your storage costs, etc.

In addition to all of this, there are also huge issues with warranty replacements once a product has been out of production for two years which is not the case if you deal with long-term available hardware.

From a business perspective, going the consumer mainboard route would most likely be more expensive as well as much riskier.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)
« Reply #135 on: January 12, 2014, 03:17:54 PM »
@Andre.Siegel
may i point out that you seem to propose a bare motherboard for 230gbp, without cpu and ram, let alone a complete system. okay, its still much less than x1k for much better hardware, but it still isnt cheap.

anyway, we can talk it to the death, but the train has departed, the funds have been invested, development or even betatesting started, so os4 fans are left with no choice for better or worse.
 

Offline yssing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2002
  • Posts: 1521
    • Show only replies by yssing
    • http://www.yssing.org
Re: AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)
« Reply #136 on: January 12, 2014, 04:10:04 PM »
A port to X86 is not going to happen. We all know Hyperions position on that subject, which IMHO is good. If people want X86 then go for AROS or UAE.
New hardware is good news for most of us.
 

Offline Iggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 5348
    • Show only replies by Iggy
Re: AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)
« Reply #137 on: January 12, 2014, 04:22:14 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;757017
Except that I'm a Hyperion customer who uses OS4. Other than that your analysis is spot on.

edit: Reading through this thread again, the people you are complaining about are neither MOS nor AROS fanboys, so what was your point again?


Yes, I'm blue, and I support A-eon.

And I am not sure why Andre would assume I'd paying that much for a rather unremarkable X64/X86 motherboard.
I hope that strategy is not what AROS or MorphOS developers consider in the future.
Its one thing to pay a premium for a board built to market the requirements of our tiny markets.
Its quite another thing to pay a premium for a board that competes in the commodity computing market.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)
« Reply #138 on: January 12, 2014, 04:23:23 PM »
Quote from: yssing;757030
A port to X86 is not going to happen. We all know Hyperions position on that subject, which IMHO is good. If people want X86 then go for AROS or UAE.
New hardware is good news for most of us.

exactly, and since what you say is true, it remains nothing else to do as to wish the effort success and that both customers and developers will be satisfied with the outcome.
 

Offline Andre.Siegel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Feb 2003
  • Posts: 151
    • Show only replies by Andre.Siegel
    • http://www.power2people.org
Re: AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)
« Reply #139 on: January 12, 2014, 04:37:38 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;757028
@Andre.Siegel
may i point out that you seem to propose a bare motherboard for 230gbp, without cpu and ram, let alone a complete system. okay, its still much less than x1k for much better hardware, but it still isnt cheap.

If you wanted to go cheap, you could. As I mentioned before, there are many companies offering hardware with long product life cycles. You can buy Jetway mainboard and processor bundles for 150 USD on newegg.com which are being advertized to have at least a 5 year product life cycle.

There are plenty of choices out there that span a wide gamut of price points.

That being said, I am not proposing anything. I can think of reasons for staying with the Power Architecture for now, but the lack of stable x86 / x64 hardware options is definitely a myth, albeit one that has been repeated quite often for some reason.
 

Offline Iggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 5348
    • Show only replies by Iggy
Re: AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)
« Reply #140 on: January 12, 2014, 04:44:40 PM »
Quote from: Andre.Siegel;757035
...I can think of reasons for staying with the Power Architecture for now...

GOOD, so can I.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Kremlar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 393
    • Show only replies by Kremlar
Re: AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)
« Reply #141 on: January 12, 2014, 05:24:55 PM »
Quote from: yssing;757030
A port to X86 is not going to happen. We all know Hyperions position on that subject, which IMHO is good. If people want X86 then go for AROS or UAE.
New hardware is good news for most of us.

This is true, my arguments are for the community in general.  AROS does not have the Amiga name and with the community so fractured there are not enough people in any of the segments to have any traction.  It's too bad.
 

Offline Kremlar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 393
    • Show only replies by Kremlar
Re: AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)
« Reply #142 on: January 12, 2014, 05:26:34 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;757033
Yes, I'm blue, and I support A-eon.

And I am not sure why Andre would assume I'd paying that much for a rather unremarkable X64/X86 motherboard.
I hope that strategy is not what AROS or MorphOS developers consider in the future.
Its one thing to pay a premium for a board built to market the requirements of our tiny markets.
Its quite another thing to pay a premium for a board that competes in the commodity computing market.

 There's no need to pay a premium for an x86 board if you go with a common board from a reputable vendor.
 

Offline Kremlar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 393
    • Show only replies by Kremlar
Re: AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)
« Reply #143 on: January 12, 2014, 05:39:21 PM »
Quote from: Andre.Siegel;757027
I am afraid you have not thought this through. I would recommend that you talk to business owners about the immense difficulty of accurately predicting consumer demand several years in advance.

Actually I am a business owner. There's no need to predict several years in advance other than, perhaps, gambling that the x86 market will remain relevant enough for years to come and warrant a port. It will.

Quote
There are huge financial risks involved if you overestimate demand which will need to be considered when you choose a price. If you cannot sell 30% of your inventory or you need to sell for 30% below your initial investment just to get rid of all units, which would not be an unusual percentage, you would have to choose a roughly 50% higher price just to cover that.
You don't need to overestimate demand. You don't need to buy thousands of units upfront, perhaps just a hundred. That's the beauty of not custom building your own boards. You pick a reasonably priced board from top vendor that's at the beginning of it's lifecycle.

Quote
Also, financing inventory and storage cost money as well. The bigger your inventory, the higher your storage costs, etc.
Why would you need huge inventory when there are literally thousands and thousands of vendors in the x86 market doing it for you? Perhaps you keep tabs on motherboard availability - but that's it. We're talking about a market that would likely initially support the sale of HUNDREDS of units over a year or 2, probably not thousands.

Quote
In addition to all of this, there are also huge issues with warranty replacements once a product has been out of production for two years which is not the case if you deal with long-term available hardware.
You buy 5% above what you sell for warranty replacements and out of warranty repairs. That's far more reasonable a price to pay versus paying quadruple+ the price for the oddball boards you are recommending, especially because you can always resell what you don't need or use. Most top tier board manufacturers warranty their motherboards for 3+ years.

Quote
From a business perspective, going the consumer mainboard route would most likely be more expensive as well as much riskier.
I disagree. It's far less expensive and much less risky.
 

Offline Kremlar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 393
    • Show only replies by Kremlar
Re: AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)
« Reply #144 on: January 12, 2014, 05:44:16 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;757034
exactly, and since what you say is true, it remains nothing else to do as to wish the effort success and that both customers and developers will be satisfied with the outcome.

I disagree.  If you don't like something you try to change it.  Put your money where your mouth is, support the vendors you believe in, and try to take back your community.  You don't just sit and accept things - that's a poor attitude.
 

Offline Terminills

  • Grand Conspirator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2003
  • Posts: 594
  • Country: 00
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • Show only replies by Terminills
Re: AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)
« Reply #145 on: January 12, 2014, 05:54:30 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;756721
No, I'd have a problem if I kept that in.



BTW - How would you feel if A-eon secured the right to call these Amigas?

That would be funny.  What would be even funnier is if someone actually produced the original Gateway Amino contract.   We might find out that Amino never OWNED the Amiga name and it was merely a nontransferable exclusive license.  I wonder where that would leave Aeon and Hyperion? ;)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 05:58:47 PM by Terminills »
Support AROS sponsor a developer.

edited by mod: this has been addressed
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)
« Reply #146 on: January 12, 2014, 06:26:46 PM »
Quote from: Kremlar;757043
I disagree.  If you don't like something you try to change it.  Put your money where your mouth is, support the vendors you believe in, and try to take back your community.  You don't just sit and accept things - that's a poor attitude.


you perhaps missed out that im considerd the anti so4, hyperion and aeon troll around remaining amiga forums. i said things like you over and over for years and years. did it change anything? no. does it mean that i accept this? no. i have even supported aros even though being actual amiga user im not much interrested in neither x86 nor ppc hardware in this case. tbh im a little tired of this all, ive probably only jumped on this thread, because as factual amiga fan to this day i dont like to be called a "wacko" by people who cant talk me into some amiga derived system, whatever it is.
 

Offline Terminills

  • Grand Conspirator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2003
  • Posts: 594
  • Country: 00
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • Show only replies by Terminills
Re: AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)
« Reply #147 on: January 12, 2014, 06:32:28 PM »
Quote from: Rob;757025


What I'm asking is does the ARIX implementation with it's underlying Linux driver base allow it to run on any system without having to carefully select what hardware you use.  I assume that's the goal.



That is one of the goals yes.
Support AROS sponsor a developer.

edited by mod: this has been addressed
 

Offline Andre.Siegel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Feb 2003
  • Posts: 151
    • Show only replies by Andre.Siegel
    • http://www.power2people.org
Re: AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)
« Reply #148 on: January 12, 2014, 07:06:38 PM »
Quote from: Kremlar;757042
Actually I am a business owner.


I wouldn't have guessed.


Quote
That's far more reasonable a price to pay versus paying quadruple+ the price for the oddball boards you are recommending


You might want to read again what I actually wrote. I have not been recommending any mainboards that are four times as expensive as comparable consumer mainboards. I listed one specific manufacturer that offers an unusually long product life cycle of at least 7 years which perfectly countered amikit's statement that people would be "paying to support motherboards that are discontinued within a few months of release."

I specifically said that there are many manufacturers covering a wide gamut price points.

If the goal is to minimize development work by supporting as few mainboards as possible for as long as possible, which is what Amikit hinted at, you can either port your OS to a long-term available mainboard or you can build up a relatively huge inventory of a particular consumer mainboard with a shorter product life. I have stated my preference regarding the former which was in no way an endorsement of any specific mainboard.
 

Offline nicholas

Re: AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)
« Reply #149 on: January 12, 2014, 07:13:28 PM »
Quote from: Terminills;757044
That would be funny.  What would be even funnier is if someone actually produced the original Gateway Amino contract.   We might find out that Amino never OWNED the Amiga name and it was merely a nontransferable exclusive license.  I wonder where that would leave Aeon and Hyperion? ;)

That would be hilarious!

I'd pay good money to see Herman's face when that happens. :D
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini