AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)

[nicholas]

I guess you didn't understand the point then.  

Genrally when people say "Your point is?" it's because they do not understand the point you are failing to make, yes.

With regard to OS4.2 I haven't claimed that it proves multicore slots neatly into AmigaOS

Hyperion and it's various paid and unaid mouthpieces are liars?

to be truthful I will remain sceptical about whether or not it will work until I see it.  Please try to see past the hostile fanboi stereotype that I exist as in your mind.

Your words Rob.

Anyway since you say that you have had ARIXfor the past 6 months, does it boot on every x86 system you've tried, and are you no longer stuck with glitchy video modes on certain video hardware.
Is the concept a reality?

1. Yes.
2. Never had nor heard of that problem before you montioned it.  Seing as most about else who has used ARIX is under NDA - therefore cannot mention anything - are you sure you aren't just making that up?
3. Yes.

[nicholas]

Confusing isn't it?
Campaign to help them get a decent browser.
Try to offer some kind of laurel branch.
Get your hand bit off if your sound the least bit critical.

That sounds not too dissimimilar to a desription of a beaten wife.

"OS4 users - Ungrateful, paranoid, serial abusers" a great marketing slogan. :lol:

[nicholas]

ps Don't ask for more info about ARIX as I won't give any.  I may not be under NDA but I have respect for the developers.

[Kremlar]

The RPi has a huge established market (Linux and/or geek users) and is really just a cheap embedded chip on a board with a few sockets - orders of magnitude less complex than an X1000.

They knew that because the unit cost was going to be SO low, they could produce millions and they would sell, and recoup costs.
Design costs of RPi: Much, much lower.
Market size of RPi: Much, much higher.
Risk of producing 1,000,000 Rpi and taking advantage of economies of scale: Much, much lower.

Making 1,000,000 RPi = make a fortune. Making 1,000,000 Amiga boards of similar spec to X1000 = suicide.

The two cannot be compared.

 You're making my point.  They should be making low-cost hardware, not "high-end" outdated hardware.  If the FPGA Arcade Relay ever makes it out it will sell tons more than the X1000 or Cyrus.
 
 The Amiga market is limited, no doubt, but there's a huge untapped market of classic owners and prior Amiga users who would be tempted to buy something if it was relatively inexpensive and interesting.
 
 To me, the X1000 is neither.

[Kremlar]

If you do not choose a product based on one specific x86 motherboard, A-EON or Hyperion will need to commission a wide ranging development of drivers and firmware for the any supported x86 motherboard because no two x86 motherboards are alike.

Of course, you start by supporting a select few boards - or even one board! Like you do with the X1000.

The developer resources (and financial cost) to keep pace with current x86 motherboard hardware developments would be significant, due to the short shelf life of x86 hardware. Then you are paying to support motherboards that are discontinued within a few months of release.

You don't have to support every board.

It would be better from a practical and anti-piracy point of view to concentrate on a limited set of x86 motherboards. Apple do exactly this. However, an investment in securing these boards for the 2 years+ product life would be required.

Right. How big is the Amiga market? Say you start by picking 1 board to support and buy 2000 of them. That's $100,000 for 2000 boards. How much was spent to develop the X1000? And how many boards were produced?

Today's Linux community can support a wide range of x86 boards due to the huge pool of developers willing to write drivers and provide support for different hardware configurations. AmigaOS developer community in contrast is very much smaller.

That's why you start small.

Why do so many in the Amiga community think that it's all or nothing? Custom PPC or support EVERY x86 board? It doesn't have to be that way. Smart people don't want x86 support because they want to run AmigaOS on EVERY available motherboard - they want it so they don't have to spend $3000 on outdated hardware just to run an underdeveloped OS!

[Kremlar]

I think a "unique" feature would be running faster on a hardware than competition. All Amiga-successors are simpler than Linux/Mac/Windows, that is sometimes a disadvantage but that can be a advantage in regards of performance. Even if some devs (including members of the MorphOS team) claim otherwise, performance is still very important and defines what can be done with a computer.

Irrelevant while AmigaOS is tied to PPC.  Who cares if AmigaOS is more "efficient" when you can buy a FAR more powerful x86 that will run circles around an X1000 for sub-$500 and consume 16 watts?

[nicholas]

Of course, you start by supporting a select few boards - or even one board! Like you do with the X1000.


 You don't have to support every board.


 Right. How big is the Amiga market? Say you start by picking 1 board to support and buy 2000 of them. That's $100,000 for 2000 boards. How much was spent to develop the X1000? And how many boards were produced?


 That's why you start small.

Why do so many in the Amiga community think that it's all or nothing? Custom PPC or support EVERY x86 board? It doesn't have to be that way. Smart people don't want x86 support because they want to run AmigaOS on EVERY available motherboard - they want it so they don't have to spend $3000 on outdated hardware just to run an underdeveloped OS!

Amen to that!

[Kremlar]

Despite the long time AROS has been available since late 1990's, I do not see a plethora of AROS retailers out there and a lot of AROS machines sold. I expect the AROS team continue development from a love of the original Amiga spirit, as we all do. The big business question is: if you are confident that x86 Amiga is the commercial future of our platform, over the years why has AROS not attracted a significant market share yet? Is it because of the pace of keeping up with x86 hardware changes?

Perhaps, but tied to that it's because it doesn't have the Amiga name. AROS is also not as developed as AmigaOS or MorphOS. They also don't create systems, they create an OS.

What if someone like Trever had decided to put his money somewhere else? Pay for a portion of the AmigaOS port to x86. Choose and secure the necessary x86 boards and create a select line of "AmigaOne" x86 systems. Perhaps choose 3 boards - MiniITX, MicroATX and full ATX variations of the same board. Have 3 systems all requiring the same drivers - something small form factor, a slim tower, and a mid-tower.

Instead of AmigaKit building the same hardware over and over again you could be building a variety of systems at a variety of price ranges - all for probably lower development costs.

In the above scenario, would he have sold more systems or fewer? I bet more. Much more. And the x86 port would have been done and future systems would have been much less costly.

If a port is not feasible, then go the ARIX route - it makes sense to me. Going down the path the Amiga market is currently going does not make sense - it leads to certain and inevitable death.

[yssing]

It would be financially suicide to build a variety of systems for a variety of price ranges in a small market.

Besides, IMHO ppc makes sense, there is no need for amiga os to become yet another obscure x86 OS. And stepping in others footstep, means you can never pass them.

[persia]

It would be financially suicide to build a variety of systems for a variety of price ranges in a small market.

Besides, IMHO ppc makes sense, there is no need for amiga os to become yet another obscure x86 OS. And stepping in others footstep, means you can never pass them.

And given the budget AmigaOS has you aren't going to pass anyone, Andriod, iOS, MS Windows, OSX... Realistically it's survival you want, anything else is cream.

[Iggy]

...Going down the path the Amiga market is currently going does not make sense - it leads to certain and inevitable death.

'He's dead, Jim'

Get over it.

And given the budget AmigaOS has you aren't going  to pass anyone, Andriod, iOS, MS Windows, OSX... Realistically it's  survival you want, anything else is cream.

Dead, alive?
We are still here.
And A-eon is now producing three type of boards instead of one.
Sounds successful to me.

While the company that wanted to build commodity based Amigas is no more.
Yeah, we should listen to YOU guys.

[Duce]

It is about 20 years too late in regards to porting to x86, IMO.

I fail to see what it would buy us, even if it was easy to do.  You're still having to use an emulator to run legacy programs, and you are never going to get all of said legacy software ported to the new architecture.  At least with my PPC "Amiga" hardware, whether it be MOS or OS4, I still can run the vast, vast majority of old Amiga programs without having to use an emulator.

You'd have an Amiga like OS on commodity hardware, which would lower the costs of entry, for sure, though.

Smells like AROS to me, IMHO.

[Kremlar]

It would be financially suicide to build a variety of systems for a variety of price ranges in a small market.

Besides, IMHO ppc makes sense, there is no need for amiga os to become yet another obscure x86 OS. And stepping in others footstep, means you can never pass them.

Not when the variety comes at no additional costs.  It's not like they're engineering multiple motherboards.

So, becoming an obscure x86 OS is somehow worse than being an obscure PPC OS?  Certainly not for the end users shelling out the cash for the hardware.

[agami]

...

Besides, IMHO ppc makes sense, there is no need for amiga os to become yet another obscure x86 OS. And stepping in others footstep, means you can never pass them.

"I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space"
Hamlet

[Niding]

I love how both sides passive agressivly claims the other camp is raving lunatics/fanbois/zealots.

For the most part you all come off equally bad.

The only intresting part of this thread is the exchanges between amigakit and Kremlar.
Substance instead of mudslinging makes for intresting read. Who would have thought.

[Iggy]

I love how both sides passive agressivly claims the other camp is raving lunatics/fanbois/zealots.

For the most part you all come off equally bad.

The only intresting part of this thread is the exchanges between amigakit and Kremlar.
Substance instead of mudslinging makes for intresting read. Who would have thought.

"Your a loony" - Monty Python :banana:

The only substance here was the initial announcement.
Amigakit just didn't want anyone misrepresenting their price range.

The rest of it has been yet another displaced Moobunny thread.