AmigaONE X5000 (A-Eon Technology Ltd on Facebook)

[OlafS3]

If you do not choose a product based on one specific x86 motherboard, A-EON or Hyperion will need to commission a wide ranging development of drivers and firmware for the any supported x86 motherboard because no two x86 motherboards are alike.

The developer resources to keep pace with current x86 motherboard hardware developments would be significant, due to the short shelf life of x86 hardware.

It would be better from a practical and anti-piracy point of view to concentrate on a limited set of x86 motherboards.  Apple do exactly this.

The Linux community can support a wide range of x86 boards due to the huge pool of developers willing to write drivers and provide support for different hardware configurations.

ARIX shows that it is possible to use Linux as base for driver support. Or you use Mac X86/X64 as hardware.

And BTW on X1000 parts of the hardware are unsupported and the functionality is added by additional cards. I do not see a real difference to build a PC using compatible off-the-shelf hardware.

[amigakit]

aros has proven that it is possible to maintain "amiga ng" system not only on x86 hardware.

Absolutley no disrepect intended to AROS developers: I can imagine how much hard work it is to maintain distributions for specific systems, the key to a viable business is having a current product that is available and in demand.  AROS Devs are always reactively developing their system to x86 hardware that has hit the retail shelves already, so hardware quickly becomes discontinued.  

Despite the long time AROS has been available since late 1990's, I do not see a plethora of AROS retailers out there and a lot of AROS machines sold.  I expect the AROS team continue development from a love of the original Amiga spirit, as we all do.  The big business question is: if you are confident that x86 Amiga is the commercial future of our platform, over the years why has AROS not attracted a significant market share yet?  Is it because of the pace of keeping up with x86 hardware changes?

[Rob]

ARIX shows that it is possible to use Linux as base for driver support. Or you use Mac X86/X64 as hardware.

Since ARIX isn't available or even been demoed publicly it shows nothing.

[OlafS3]

Absolutley no disrepect intended to AROS developers: I can imagine how much hard work it is to maintain distributions for specific systems, the key to a viable business is having a current product that is available and in demand.  AROS Devs are always reactively developing their system to x86 hardware that has hit the retail shelves already, so hardware quickly becomes discontinued.  

Despite the long time AROS has been available since late 1990's, I do not see a plethora of AROS retailers out there and a lot of AROS machines sold.  I expect the AROS team continue development from a love of the original Amiga spirit, as we all do.  However if you think that x86 Amiga is the future, why has AROS not attracted a significant market share yet?  Is it because of the pace of keeping up with x86 hardware changes?

I had contact to former Amiga developers to get permissions, many were former AmigaOS user but were not interested to spend the money for new PPC hardware and had no faith in Hyperions strategy. Sadly, they most left the market and did not change f.e. to MorphOS. Where is the "success" of current strategy. It is astonishing that such a expensive hardware sales at all but I see not that the userbase grows or will grow.

Regarding AROS I have a different view. Look at the userbase. Many have left at all, those who are still there have mostly decided for a platform a long time ago, they have their software and are mostly emotionally tied to it. And to win real new users all camps lack features. Aros with 64bit, SMP in some form, driver support by Linux, 128 GB RAM support and so on might bridge the gap.

The main problem (for all camps) to win real new users is missing software. And outside the community nobody knows that the platform is still there (no marketing)

[OlafS3]

Since ARIX isn't available or even been demoed publicly it shows nothing.

then I could say X5000 is not existing either because there is no working system shown in the public. And 4.2. is vaporware too because it is only talk.

[amigakit]

The main problem (for all camps) to win real new users is missing software

Yes, I agree with you.  People buy computers for the software they can run on it.

That is why A-EON is developing AMIStore (an app store for AmigaOS) and the emphasis from A-EON in 2014 will be on software production, supporting the AmigaONE X1000 owners out there first and foremost and creating a base for future models such as the X5000.

[OlafS3]

Yes, I agree with you.  People buy computers for the software they can run on it.

That is why A-EON is developing AMIStore (an app store for AmigaOS) and the emphasis from A-EON in 2014 will be on software production, supporting the AmigaONE X1000 owners out there first and foremost and creating a base for future models such as the X5000.

There is already a app store created by phoenixconsole that supports AmigaOS, doubling it exclusively for AmigaOS does not make sense (but we have the resources sigh...).

And regards software... we will see. I only know from the port of Libre Office but it is again done by the Friedens and after the experience with Firefox I have some doubts. The problem is when you have software that is in development then it is not done with a one time port.

But as I wrote, I think Trevor does it for his own pleasure and not because he want to revive the platform. And everybody can do with his money what he likes. My personal interest is to recreate (to a certain degree) a platform that is interesting for commercial development (f.e. for small INDY developers) and I do not believe that X5000 is the right direction to get there.

[nicholas]

Since ARIX isn't available or even been demoed publicly it shows nothing.

Sounds exactly like OS4.2. Your point is?

[nicholas]

Absolutley no disrepect intended to AROS developers: I can imagine how much hard work it is to maintain distributions for specific systems, the key to a viable business is having a current product that is available and in demand.  AROS Devs are always reactively developing their system to x86 hardware that has hit the retail shelves already, so hardware quickly becomes discontinued.  

Despite the long time AROS has been available since late 1990's, I do not see a plethora of AROS retailers out there and a lot of AROS machines sold.  I expect the AROS team continue development from a love of the original Amiga spirit, as we all do.  The big business question is: if you are confident that x86 Amiga is the commercial future of our platform, over the years why has AROS not attracted a significant market share yet?  Is it because of the pace of keeping up with x86 hardware changes?

Absolute nonsense.  AROS has drivers for more hardware than MorphOS and OS4 combined.

OS4 doesn't even support all the hardware on the X1000 and it's been around since 2009.

[OlafS3]

Absolute nonsense.  AROS has drivers for more hardware than MorphOS and OS4 combined.

he propably means that not everything is supported. That is true (even the case on Linux) but for that you create custom build sytems using supported parts. That is already possible with Aros.

[Everblue]

I did mention that Amiga NG having "no software" is its biggest problem, but I was told not to expect much. Instead of A-Eon investing in an "Amistore" why don't they invest in the software directly? Software drives hardware sales alongside to affordability.

[Rob]

Sounds exactly like OS4.2. Your point is?

I don't know why you bring OS4.2 into it, this isn't some kind of battle of the OS'.

Olaf said that "ARIX shows that it is possible to use Linux as base for driver support.".  The point is that without ARIX being out in the wild it does not and can prove or show anything.
People have to be able to see something to be shown.  Do you understand?

[Andre.Siegel]

The developer resources (and financial cost) to keep pace with current x86 motherboard hardware developments would be significant, due to the short shelf life of x86 hardware.  Then you are paying to support motherboards that are discontinued within a few months of release.

It would be better from a practical and anti-piracy point of view to concentrate on a limited set of x86 motherboards.  Apple do exactly this.  However, an investment in securing these boards for the 2 years+ product life would be required.

I am afraid you are ill-informed. Long-term availability is a crucial concern for many industrial and embedded applications so numerous companies sell x86 mainboards with a guarantueed minimum production life of 5 years.

For example, Kontron sell Mini-ITX mainboards that are compatible with Intel i3, i5, and i7 processors and they advertize up to 7 years of availability after release. These type of mainboards are very similar to consumer mainboards but generally use better components and are specifically designed to last.

For bundles of long-term available mainboards and Intel processors, end user prices could be well below $1000 USD for hardware that would provide competitive levels of performance.

[amigakit]

My personal interest is to recreate (to a certain degree) a platform that is interesting for commercial development (f.e. for small INDY developers)

Yes, absolutely right: this is my personal goal too.  I think for too long a time,  small talented indy developers on the Amiga have not received any financial recognition of their work and ultimately gave up on Amiga and left our community.  The Amiga has suffered because of this talent drain away from the platform.

An App Store should be a good step in the direction of encouraging bedroom coders again for the Amiga.


@Andre.Siegel
Interesting information that I didn't consider about the industrial x86 boards.

@EverBlue

Instead of A-Eon investing in an "Amistore" why don't they invest in the software directly? Software drives hardware sales alongside to affordability.

I agree.  A-EON is doing both: investing in both AMIStore (a platform and delivery mechanism) and engaging with software developers directly to promote development.  However, we need to consider that results will not appear overnight.

[OlafS3]

I don't know why you bring OS4.2 into it, this isn't some kind of battle of the OS'.

Olaf said that "ARIX shows that it is possible to use Linux as base for driver support.".  The point is that without ARIX being out in the wild it does not and can prove or show anything.
People have to be able to see something to be shown.  Do you understand?

they showed the concept as graphic. If you see a system booting you do not see the kernel, think of Mac using a Linux kernel (I think BSD). So it is a matter of believing :-). But I assume that we will hear more from it this year.

[spirantho]

I am afraid you are ill-informed. Long-term availability is a crucial concern for many industrial and embedded applications so numerous companies sell x86 mainboards with a guarantueed minimum production life of 5 years.

For example, Kontron sell Mini-ITX mainboards that are compatible with Intel i3, i5, and i7 processors and they advertize up to 7 years of availability after release. These type of mainboards are very similar to consumer mainboards but generally use better components and are specifically designed to last.

It should be noted, though, that a quick Google search suggests these boards start at about £280 including VAT, much more than an equivalently specced "normal" motherboard.
If A-Eon or Amigakit were to use these, they'd have people complaining about having to use years-old x86 motherboards when there are much cheaper brand-new ones out there.

Either way, they can't please everybody, so better to do what they are doing I think - make a design decision (i.e. custom PPC motherboards) and stick to it. Better than to keep changing direction.