Is Hyperion the new Amiga Inc.?

[the_leander]

I don't care about avatars but the point i was trying to make was a new member arrogantly calling members 'self confessed know it alls' whos voices are influential on a.org probably isn't a good idea for future relations. Remember first impressions last. I don't think older members have the right to bully new members but i believe some members opinions count for more than others (except for Karlos) and new members should know their place.

Your point is valid even if your initial post wasn't that hot. As for Hattig, well that figures. As for slanderous comments in this thread, don't think so. Hyperion has been a blight from the get go and deserve everything they get.

If something truly is slanderous, I'm sure Hermans would be only too pleased at seeing another pay cheque this decade via litigation over it.

As far as developer numbers go, I wouldn't trust any numbers given out unless they came with specifics as to the sorts of hours put in, certainly over the years there have been a number public resignations over issues such as pay.

[itix]

I think there's a massive difference between full time directly employed developers, and how AmigaOS has been developed in the past ten years. 30 developers could mean 2 full time developers, a few people doing their own projects that happen to also be in the OS, some people doing a few weekends on small components, etc.

We developers have better tools, better computers and better knowledge than those Commodore developers in 1994. In theory it should be possible write new complex application faster using OS 4.1 API than with 3.1 API. While in practise compiling large project even on oldest A1-SE should be faster than on any development machine Commodore developers had an access to. And after all we are talking about developers Hyperion has presented as contractors, not contributors.

[Fairdinkem]

This coming from someone who doesn't even have an avatar?

oh ok I'll bite...... So what does having no avatar have anything to do with the price of fish?

I guess that makes as much sense as your comment.....:laughing:

So anyway now that we got off on the wrong foot let me just say my point and case is that I once rose what I thought to be a balanced argument that painted the untouchable it seems AROS in a bad light and was labelled a TROLL that's okay I am thick skinned no harm done, yet a thread seems to be dedicated to the bashing of Hyperion with the participation of a few long standing members I think it interesting, and people make statements as though it's fact yet really it is vague speculation at best, not all of it but a good proportion.

Well I said my peace I bid thee good night.

[TheBilgeRat]

Mods - please close this thread due to it being really really BORING!

[jorkany]

No, I think it is some trolling stirrers that like to bring up things from 2005 and say that they're how Hyperion currently considers something.

If you've got some facts about how Hyperion "currently considers something", spill it. Otherwise you're speculating just like anyone else. More so in fact.

The fact is that Aros is being sold on the iMica and the AresOne, and nothing has been said about the legality there.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=29498

Oops! But that was said more than a year ago so according to you it's not how Hyperion "currently considers something".

[Franko]

I refer you all to this post...

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=617460&postcount=43

Bunch fakers the lot of ya...

[Hattig]

Your point is valid even if your initial post wasn't that hot. As for Hattig, well that figures. As for slanderous comments in this thread, don't think so. Hyperion has been a blight from the get go and deserve everything they get. .

"that figures"? Pray continue. Please. I am interested to hear what you have to say.

Hyperion have been a blight on those that want AmigaOS dead by keeping it alive. For many others they have managed to create and update a PowerPC version of the operating system for them to use. Some might claim it takes them a long time to do updates, and that the core OS is still steeped in 80's architectural fail, but at least they've done something.

[cv643d]

By studying forum posts from Frieden brothers I think it is quite evident that working at Hyperion is no dream job. Seems more like prison than doing what you love in working with Workbench source code.

Just think about it, working on the next generation of AmigaOS should be a dream job, something that makes you proud, makes you shine and something you want share with the community in a positive manner.

Something tells me reality is way off from that vision. Maybe reality hit home? Who will purchase a 2000 euro hobby system?

[Hattig]

If you've got some facts about how Hyperion "currently considers something", spill it. Otherwise you're speculating just like anyone else. More so in fact.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=29498

Oops! But that was said more than a year ago so according to you it's not how Hyperion "currently considers something".

2005.

And previously cleared up in this very thread. Hence my previous comment.

Sheesh.

Right, Hyperion - we know you read this site - what's your viewpoint on AROS today?

[the_leander]

"that figures"? Pray continue. Please. I am interested to hear what you have to say.

I truly doubt that, but hey maybe there is a first time for everything.

Hyperion have been a blight on those that want AmigaOS dead by keeping it alive.

You have a truly odd definition of alive. Take a peak at what the Amiga community had around in terms of hardware and software developers in 2000 and compare it to now. Go on. Get back to us only when you've made that comparison.

Some might claim it takes them a long time to do updates, and that the core OS is still steeped in 80's architectural fail,

It's actually taken them longer to develop OS4 so far than it it did to go from 2.04-3.0-3.1 as well as the total amount of time it took H&P to develop 3.5 and 3.9, give it a year or two more and chances are it'll have taken longer than all of them combined if it hasn't already.

Which if you read the court docs you'd find much of the work converting the  68k assembler and other even more obscure language dependencies such as bcpl to straight C code had already been done with the latter two.

Even if Hyperion had to start again from scratch with just basic 3.1 source, consider the amount of time H&P had and what they did, and how long it's taken Hyperion to essentially perform the same trick. And before you point to OS4 being primarily aimed at something other than classic hardware, consider it took the morphOS crowd about the same time to get their first releases out of the door in the same sort of time frame as H&P as well.

 but at least they've done something.

Yeah, buy up valuable software such as Opus Magellen so as to stop others from gaining (read: MorphOS) thus shitting on the very people they are supposed to be servicing: The community. That's just one example, others are available on this very thread.

But to address this more thoroughly: "At least they've done something" is a complete nonsense. They have been a truly divisive factor within the community since they got the contract to do OS4 and their track record both toward partners and competitors stands as a stark testament to that fact.

--edit--

This "at least they've done something argument reminds me of those who harp on about the evils of medicine on the basis of them not being natural.

You know what's natural? Ebola.

"Natural", just like "something" doesn't necessarily mean "good for you".

[xeron]

I thought Andreas Loong (Guru Meditation) bought the rights to Magellan, not Hyperion?

As to the rest of this thread... well... everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess, but I think Hyperion are doing a good job, development wise, its just a shame we're tied to PPC.

Oh, and as for 4.1 being substantially different on different hardware, I don't think thats the case. The 4.1 release going on to Classic is 4.1 Update 2, with some updated modules specifically required to make it work on Classic, but otherwise the idea is to release it at 4.1u2 level as close as possible.

The intention then is to keep future releases of 4.x as closely in sync as possible, AFAIK.

Note: Although I am on the OS4.x dev team, i'm not speaking officially for Hyperion in this post, and I'm not personally responsible for the OS4 release process or policies related to it.

[the_leander]

I thought Andreas Loong (Guru Meditation) bought the rights to Magellan, not Hyperion?

If I'm wrong on that I'll happily stand corrected on the matter.

[jorkany]

If I'm wrong on that I'll happily stand corrected on the matter.

You're not wrong. Before Andreas bought a three-year license to do development on DOpus (that license expired in 2007) Hyperion had contracted to buy the license. However, Hyperion never paid.

http://system-log.com/?p=1363

"The answer from Dr.Greg Perry :
We made a number of attempts to work with developers continuing with Amiga development to further develop Directory Opus for the Amiga line. Initially we signed a contract with Hyperion for licensing and development but they proved to be, well to be blunt, dishonest and untrustworthy, not what one expected in the Amiga world:). Even after repeated requests and discussions over six months after they signed the contract they refused to honour the deal and make payments for the licence as agreed. While I have no direct evidence but considering the fact that they widely promoted the deal and their future development plans, it has been suggested to us by a few that they were never serious about development and their behaviour was a stalling tactic to boost their profile and keep the product out of the hands of their competitors. This dragged on for a long time until we decided to cancel the contract out of frustration at their conduct."

[the_leander]

You're not wrong. Before Andreas bought a three-year license to do development on DOpus (that license expired in 2007) Hyperion had contracted to buy the license. However, Hyperion never paid.

http://system-log.com/?p=1363

"The answer from Dr.Greg Perry :
We made a number of attempts to work with developers continuing with Amiga development to further develop Directory Opus for the Amiga line. Initially we signed a contract with Hyperion for licensing and development but they proved to be, well to be blunt, dishonest and untrustworthy, not what one expected in the Amiga world:). Even after repeated requests and discussions over six months after they signed the contract they refused to honour the deal and make payments for the licence as agreed. While I have no direct evidence but considering the fact that they widely promoted the deal and their future development plans, it has been suggested to us by a few that they were never serious about development and their behaviour was a stalling tactic to boost their profile and keep the product out of the hands of their competitors. This dragged on for a long time until we decided to cancel the contract out of frustration at their conduct."

Ouch. Also thanks for the confirmation

[Hattig]

...MorphOS...

Ah, here we come to the real reason some people are bitching about Hyperion.

Even though in my mind MorphOS did it right by shuffling off classic behaviour into a compatibility box so the architecture wasn't held back, and moved a lot quicker in many ways...

Personally I'd hate to be an Amiga developer - three platforms, a few users, and a lot of ungratefulness. And too much incompetency. Bill Buck  (despite his irascible personality) clearly had the right idea, and his companies are releasing hardware still - ARM now - at cheap prices.

AmigaOS should have been aiming for ARM for a few years now. Too late now.

[the_leander]

Ah, here we come to the real reason some people are bitching about Hyperion.

You keep telling yourself that sunbeam.