MorphOS on Power Mac G5

[takemehomegrandma]

Do you suggest that takemetograndma never put down the X1000?

I have, I do, and will continue to speak my opinions about the "X1000" whenever I see fit. I have no problems with the "X1000" per se though, nor people wanting it. It's their life and their money, and everyone is totally free to throw both away for all I care.

[gdanko]

I certainly wouldn't say it's throwing money away. These avid golfers spend far more money on golf than we do on computers. It's a hobby and some people are willing to pay more. But for the Amiga experience I'd rather use my existing Mac Mini and just buy the OS.

[takemehomegrandma]

I certainly wouldn't say it's throwing money away. These avid golfers spend far more money on golf than we do on computers. It's a hobby and some people are willing to pay more. But for the Amiga experience I'd rather use my existing Mac Mini and just buy the OS.

You're absolutely right. People are totally free to do whatever they want with their lives and money.

[Iggy]

Takemehomegrandma makes a conciliatory statement. Everyone seems agreed to allow each other to pursue whatever they feel like.

G4 Powermac/MorphOS support is supposed to be very close (yesterday being the tenth anniversary of MorphOS).

G5 Powermacs and the X1000 to offer some parity between MorphOS and AOS4.

And AROS progressing nicely for those who insist on an X86 platform.

Time to put this thread to rest!

[arnljot]

Time to put this thread to rest!

I wouldn't say that! :-O

I'm a sucker for screenshots, and I want piru to keep'em comming! :-P Unless he has some more important coding to do, that is! ;-)

[amigadave]

OS4 or MorphOS on x86 will likely never happen because of the endian-ness.

That might be true, but I think it just depends on how much fun the MorphOS Team is having and the what degree of difficulty/amount of man-hours they think it will take them to make the switch to x86.  Apple proved that a switch from PPC to x86 could be done, but that is no guarantee that MorphOS will ever make the same leap.

As soon as they are done tweaking the most speed they can get and any other optimizing or adding of features to MorphOS, and/or if the amount of work to port to x86 is more than the Team wants to invest in their fun little adventure, and if a different architecture that makes more sense to port to does not materialize before then, the Team may just decide to quit and call it a day, or move on to something else.  If MorphOS ever ceases to be fun for them to play around with, they might turn it over to other programmers in the Amiga/Morph community to continue, or sell it to anyone that wants to continue work on it and thinks they can still make a buck from doing so.

[arnljot]

Re endianess.

How did apple do it in their APIs with Universal binaries on PPC and Intel?

I understand that there were two compiled binaries into one executeable where the OS chose which part to execute, but for software developers. What were the API impact on coding for universal binaries?

[takemehomegrandma]

Actually, I'm rather hoping TMHG has learned a valuable lesson in this thread.

Huh?!???

He's popped up in several OS4 related threads to shoot down OS4 and promote MOS.That, in itself wouldn't have really registered on my radar but there was one thread in particular that stands out. It was created by a poster that was asking specifically what the deal with OS4 was, what was fun and what was cool. He'd already created one for MOS asking the same.

Regardless of this, TMHG jumped into the thread in full fanboy mode to try and persuade the OP what he really wanted to talk about in that thread was MOS. The OP didn't and went as far asking that he desist. And, after some complaints, so did I.

Unfortunately, being in full fanboy mode, it seems he just was incapable of stopping and the thread got derailed further and further.

In the end, the OP was thoroughly put off both options.

Now, in the course of that thread, TMHG was pretty scathing towards the OS4 option.

Online discussions are dynamic. Sometimes a discussion can take a life of its own, and start growing and evolving in various directions. That takes both time and input from *many* people though, one man can't do it alone, but you seem to think so. Usually, many people are involved in discussions, and each and everyone is "guilty" in proportion to the input they provided to the thread, to the way the discussion evolves. But speaking of "guilt" at all implies that it would actually be wrong to speak your opinion in a forum; that some posts are allowed, and some are not. Which of course is insane to begin with. But here you are, publically singling me out as some single culprit(!) guilty of doing something wrong(!), the only one guilty of "fanboyism", and obviously in need of some public spanking, since that is what you are trying to do with your post (publicly speaking of me in third person, listing some vague offenses you think I did wrong in the past, and how you have now corrected me and "teach'ed me a lesson"). From the post of yours I get the impression that you have tried to "teach" me something (and you actually think you have succeded). However, I remember a thread you started some time ago, called "I don't get it". Clearly you *don't*, so you will probably be the last person on this planet that will be able to teach me anything at all. Educating me is not even your role as a moderator on this site. Trying to do so is not even appropriate. You are a moderator (here to keep structural order), not a teacher who sits on the absolute truth and knowledge (here to dictate content). If you think moderation is about the latter, I think you should apply for a job on amigans.net instead. If you see a need to moderate me because some breach of the TOS or whatever - moderate! And either do it *there and then* --- or let it pass altogether! Don't do *this*, whatever you are doing (harassment is probably a too strong word, but a moderator coming back several weeks after an "offense" to "teach a lesson" in a MorphOS thread is certainly a vindictive behavior not suitable for a moderator). I suggest you go back and re-read whatever thread(s) you so vaguely are hinting at, and try to see the input to those threads from the many others, try to see the chronological evolution, try to look at the discussion from more than *the one single side you obviously picked* to look at it from.

And please provide a link to the thread(s) where you think I have been out of line, so I can have a chance of publicly defending myself after this post of yours!

Which is why, in this thread, after I tried to get him to explain why MOS on a G5 would be a better choice than say linux on an x86 for any compute intensive task, the following response made me laugh out loud:

Indeed, thanks for that comment!

I think it's funny that an Amiga enthusiast has to defend his preferred choice of OS and HW for his Amiga hobby here on Amiga.org. This is something I would expect over at slashdot, i.e. "Linux on x86 is cheaper, faster and better". Well it might be, but it won't be MorphOS.

Well, perhaps next time he'll remember that before he trashes some other amiga user's preferred choice of OS/HW.

Wow. That must without doubt be the worst lesson ever. A moderator of an Amiga site talking down on various Amiga alternatives, just to "teach TMHG a lesson". I have on numerous occasions stated that I couldn't live without x86 and Windows. I have Linux as well. But I'm *here* for Amiga, which in my case is MorphOS. Discussions about pro's and con's of MorphOS vs. OS4 should be perfectly legit on an Amiga site!! It's discussions *within "the family"*. Talking down on Amiga on behalf of Linux, Windows, etc is just weird. Like we wouldn't know the pro's and con's between them and Amiga. Wow. Look, when people say that MorphOS isn't Amiga, I respond. When people say "Don't buy a PPC Mac, because it's second hand", I respond. When people say "Don't buy a PPC Mac because it doesn't come with a warranty", I respond. When people say "Don't buy MorphOS or MorphOS capable HW, buy TEH REEEL!!1!!!", I respond. I have always tried to provide arguments for my posted views that I thought were thought through and valid, arguments that people can respond to without restriction. I thought that would be the way to go. I ask the people *advising against* MorphOS (like user "DAX" for instance, he's like Samface and MikeyC merged into one, but he's obviously not a fanboy, nooo, only "TMHG" is) to put up valid arguments for their stances, like I did. They can't. No rational arguments. That's when they usually goes crawling away to moderators (was it "DAX" BTW?). They like to talk down on MorphOS and its hardware, but they can't take the discussion about it. But *I* am singled out to be the one that must "remember that before he trashes some other amiga user's preferred choice of OS/HW", not those mindless BAF's that trashes MorphOS's user's preferred choice, without even being able to put up valid arguments for it. :rolleyes:

[kolla]

Apple proved that a switch from PPC to x86 could be done

NeXT proved that a switch from m68k to x86 could be done.
Be proved that a switch from PowerPC to x86 coud be done.
Digital^wCompaq^wHP proved that switch from Alpha to Itanium could be done.
Linux proved that a switch from x86 to just about anything could be done.
*BSD proved that a switch from whatever to whatever could be done.

Why do you even bother to mention Apple?

[kolla]

Huh?!???

Yeah, and MorphOS sucks mostly because of you.

[takemehomegrandma]

Yeah, and MorphOS sucks mostly because of you.

Kolla, I love you to. So very much...

[Karlos]

@takemehomegrandma

And please provide a link to the thread(s) where you think I have been out of line, so I can have a chance of publicly defending myself after this post of yours!

Knock yourself out:


Here is the user's "How is MOS?" thread: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50993

Three pages of perfectly matter-of-fact information about MOS, without any red trolls diving in and making a mess,

Here is the same user's "How is OS4?" thread: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=53268

Notice the difference? 16 pages, most of which are off topic arguments about the superiority of MOS, contributed heartily to by your good self. I concede, however, you weren't alone in doing so.

As for bashing, this not ring a bell?

OS4 is merely a sub-standard substitute for MorphOS (that was here long before OS4 development was even started), with quite poor Amiga compatibility in comparison, so it always puzzles me how anyone *really interested in Amiga* would even consider OS4. The only reason I can think of is some strange brand following (which is the only thing you are interested in as shown by your posts here), which is kind of sad, especially considering it was kind of "robbed" from the IP-owner under miserable circumstances.

There is a word that springs to mind after your epic butthurt and complaining about the meany mod making you "defend your platform of choice" after the above thread.

[kolla]

Kolla, I love you to. So very much...

You love me to what?

[Iggy]

Well, so much for even, fair and balanced.

Let's get ready to rumble!

Kolla, takemehomegrandma - I love you BOTH so much!

[takemehomegrandma]

Let's get down to FACTS for a change:

@takemehomegrandma
Knock yourself out:

Here is the user's "How is MOS?" thread: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50993

Here is my contributions to that thread:

#25 - Me providing some pro-arguments of MorphOS compared to OS4.

#26 - Me providing my bottom line view on MorphOS vs. AROS.

#31 - Took the liberty of clarifying a statement on another user's behalf.

Here is the same user's "How is OS4?" thread: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=53268

Notice the difference? 16 pages, most of which are off topic arguments about the superiority of MOS, contributed heartily to by your good self. I concede, however, you weren't alone in doing so.

OK, that thread has #319 (!!) posts, of which I am "guilty" of *18*!(!!!) That's about *301 posts less* than one could believe after reading your post above, and seeing your actions in this very thread!

How about *actually reading* them this time? And I mean, reading them all, not just mine! Especially read the posts and the discussion threads to which I'm responding to! Watch how the thread evolves. Look how people contributes. What they are saying. It takes many people to move a discussion forward, not just one, not just "TMHG" (with his massive 18 posts).

I'm actually one of those who contributed *the least* (AND THIS IS A FACT) of all those people posting more than one or a few posts in that thread. As far as I can tell, the majority of pages *scrolls by completely without a single contribution from me*!

Look at DAX's mindless ramblings in that thread. Look at his post count! Look at the contents of his posts! That's no sign of "fanboyism", nooo, only "TMHG" qualifies as a fanboy in that thread.

There are lots of gems in this thread, from lots of people! Like the few but valuable contributions from "Kolla"...!

Yet you choose to hang me out like some kind of "troll" that "has now been taught a lesson by this powerful moderator" (Muahahaaa)!

Well, my own contributions to the monster thread starts at page #2, with post #16, a post *agreeing with you* that comparisons of the Sam should be with the Efika (both being "G2" based motherboards), and then extending it by providing info for som actual comparisons. Then my contribution continues with:

#42 - A reality check. The OS4 option might be that expensive, but the guy is saying it's the MorphOS that is, and while MorphOS is cheaper it still offers more.

#49 - Once again agreeing supporting *your own* idea that it's too early to compare Fire^H^H^H^H "Timberwolf" with the currently available browsers.

#51 - Agreeing with the OC that the discussion should focus on OS4. Nothing bad at all in that post IMHO. However, as I said above, discussions evolve in mysterious ways, and it takes many people to accomplish that.

#59 - (After discussion being continued by others, not me!) If you are ready to discuss pro's with alpha (Timberwolf) software, you should also be prepared to discuss con's? But maybe it's indeed too early?
 
#96 - Agreeing with others that MorphOS is the best (the only) measuring stick if you want to know how OS4 performs and what it will deliver. And after beginning to get a bit provoced by some of the posts in the thread this far, I also throw in a post of my views in the same spirit as most of the other posts made by other people.

#126 - A simple meta comment about DAX crawling to moderators (as he usually does when he has gone out on too deep water

#166 - Simply agreeing with gazgod that DAX obviously is uneducated...

#182 - Beginning to completely flipping out on DAX! Being the underdog here, I'm showing him that his "argument" about being "a true Amigan" goes unmodified the other way around. I then go on responding to him in his own posting style. Maybe he will understand his own downgrading language?

#183 - The OC has got his answers. Good! Topic/discussion should be free then...?

#194 - Explaining my take on realistic expectations of the term "warranty" when it comes to unknown upstarts. Putting this in context with Apple, since someone obviously thought Apple's customer service would be less secure than the upstart.

#195 - Spelling out the obvious facts (provided by others) in a more colorful way, to make it visible to the people who obviously can't comprehend!

#200 - Flipping out even more on DAX! I'm yet again showing him that his "argument" about TEH REEELL!!11! goes unmodified the other way around. Providing examples even. I then go on responding to him in his own posting style, but including rational arguments and mathematical truths. Maybe he will understand his own downgrading language?

#201 - This one doesn't even count, only clearing some thing up...

#202 - Getting tired about "Car" analogy. (On Samface's era, it was "cola" (pepsi/coke) that was used I think.)

#203 - Getting tired about the usual cries for moderation when running out of rational arguments.

#280 - Trying the same strategy on DrHirudo I previously tried on DAX, i.e. copying a statement the other way around.

#283 - Totally flipped out on DAX now. (OK, that post of mine was a little trollish perhaps , but not uncalled for in the context )

And that was the last post by me in that thread, which countinues to count up to #319 posts.

There is a word that springs to mind after your epic butthurt and complaining about the meany mod making you "defend your platform of choice" after the above thread.

I can't say I had expected an apology. But that comment, rubbing salt in the wounds, made my regards for you vanish completely!

Gone!

Anyone not completely blind will see that *my* contribution to those threads were *very minor* in comparison to other people's posts. Yet I'm getting 100% of the blame, for some problem that *I'm not even sure exists* outside a few peoples brains?

And what's even more disturbing, is the fact that you obviously has *spent time* and *quite a few posts* here in this very thread, with the only purpose of "retaliating", "teaching a lesson" etc. Are you trying to "get even"? On *ME*? A vindictive behavior I would have expected from some of the users on AW.net or amigans.net, not from an official moderator of Amiga.org. Why? Disturbed indeed!

And why you have appointed *ME* as your target, is beyond my comprehension! Clearly *it isn't* my contributions to the threads you quoted...

Did someone tell you to do this? Who?

Three pages of perfectly matter-of-fact information about MOS, without any red trolls diving in and making a mess

Are you saying that Red Trolls never post mis-information about MorphOS or its Hardware?!?? Red trolls are everywhere!

I made 18 posts in a #319 posts thread. One or a few of those (tops) could be considered inflammatory. And instead of judging me based on my own merits, you self-decided to take out your anger on the "Blue Collective" on *ME*! You have appointed me to some kind of collective whipping boy, following me here to this thread, making several posts with the only agenda of retaliation.

And you think it's strange that I react the way I do!

...and facts *still* remains:

"You Don't Get It"!

[Karlos]

So much butthurt. Where to begin?

Your quantity of posts in the thread is not the point; it isn't about quantity, it's about quality.

How about *actually reading* them this time? And I mean, reading them all, not just mine! Especially read the posts and the discussion threads to which I'm responding to! Watch how the thread evolves. Look how people contributes. What they are saying. It takes many people to move a discussion forward, not just one, not just "TMHG" (with his massive 18 posts).

I have done, very carefully. Anybody that has been on this forum any length of time knows it's very rare for me to single people out, the fact that you are an exception to this should actually make you stop for a moment and wonder why. Of course you can't, because you're too busy feeling exasperated at it to realise.

You can't even take responsibility for your "contribution" without pointing out how many other people were doing it. And yet, you overlook one blindingly obvious point.

Anyone not completely blind will see that *my* contribution to those threads were *very minor* in comparison to other people's posts. Yet I'm getting 100% of the blame, for some problem that *I'm not even sure exists* outside a few peoples brains?

It is true that in that thread, other people got stuck in just as excitedly, but the point is that the thread was fine until you started going on about why the OP should use MorphOS instead, totally ignoring the polite request by the original poster not to. Which, ultimately, invited all the other trolls to come out of the woodwork and start a fight. You can't even claim you weren't aware of his older MOS thread as you posted in that one too, before posting in his OS4 thread.

Cause and consequence. I think you'll find most people understand the concept.

And as for your 18 posts, well, anybody reading that thread can judge for themselves, and if they are bored enough, perhaps they will. Except for the first few, they don't make pleasent reading. For all your protestation about red trolls, the huge irony here that in this thread you've basically behaved in exactly the same fashion you accuse said red trolls of. Complaining about having to defend your choice of OS from the nasty linux trolls that you expect to find only on slashdot having done exactly the same thing to fellow amiga enthusiasts right here on this very forum for simply preferring an alternative OS. And a final irony, here you are complaining at the unfair singling out, and what do you do in your defence? Single out someone else.

And what's even more disturbing, is the fact that you obviously has *spent time* and *quite a few posts* here in this very thread, with the only purpose of "retaliating", "teaching a lesson" etc. Are you trying to "get even"? On *ME*? A vindictive behavior I would have expected from some of the users on AW.net or amigans.net, not from an official moderator of Amiga.org. Why? Disturbed indeed

I didn't spend any time, I just remembered that particular thread from before. Again, an irony being that I might not have, had you not have started the e-pine rubbing over G5 in this one

Did someone tell you to do this? Who?

Paranoid, much? No. What, I can't have my own opinions?

I happen to think you behaved hypocritcally, having bashed OS4 and it's users in a thread opened regarding OS4, to the point of goading "cry foul! moderators! make the arguments go away!" (or some such nonsense) and then cry like a toddler in a tantrum when it is pointed out to you that MOS on G5 offers nothing that it doesn't offer on G4 and that the few things that will run better on G5 will run far better on an x86 with linux, since invariably, that's where the software was ported from anyway. Boo hoo, somebody presented an argument that wouldn't go away. For shame.

Had you not have played the "I can't believe an amiga enthusiast has to defent his choice of OS here on amiga.org" card, this exchange probably would not have happened.

So, really, nobody to blame but yourself.

I can't say I had expected an apology. But that comment, rubbing salt in the wounds, made my regards for you vanish completely!

Gone!

I'm sorry to say it, but frankly I don't much care. I'm not going to lose any sleep whatsoever over it, I suggest you shouldn't either.

The original poster in that thread got put off OS4 and MOS thanks to the debacle you helped to create. I can't say I blame him one bit, the whole red v blue thing almost put me off the entire Amiga scene for good too.

Luckily, having to read your posts hasn't put me off the MOS2 option yet. Carry on though, you never know your luck.

Now, I'd rather not continue this conversation since it's not really doing anything for the thread. In fact, I should probably split it out.