MorphOS on Power Mac G5

[Iggy]

...Media is another good argument, many DSLR cameras now have video encoding and this is high bitrate, high definition H.264.  I'd like to see what a G4 can make of the 1080p files I record...

It's ironic but it's the other platforms are doing it the "Amiga way", they use dedicated hardware for video en/decoding (usually hardware blocks on the GPU chip).  Phones do the same, right the way up to 1080p.

I think I've mentioned this before. Some of the current video cards we have support for do have MPEG2 video coding hardware, but I don't think its being used.
More recent cards also have support for more advanced video formats.
However, if we don't take advantage of GPU assisted video en/decoding, then a lot of CPU cycles are going to get used even with a G5.

[Karlos]

If you'd added the butthurt report form however it would have made it truly epic

I did See #150

[Karlos]

I hope I won't trigger an infinite loop by writing this.

But yes, there is current software that would greatly benefit from it (media players, encoders, web browsing / flash, emulators, ...). They are current, and often used, at least when you use MorphOS as your main system.

This doesn't mean the other points "against" Powermac G5 don't stand of course (consumption, noise, only a single core would be used on MorphOS and so on...).

I just strongly protest against this statement that no software would make use of it.

Well, all of those apps/codecs are generally ports from linux and the like, so you could just use a cheap x86 box... wait... damnit! :roflmao:

Seriously though, these are the only apps that would probably benefit in that they aren't necessarily "fast enough" on a lower CPU. Of course, if one were to leverage GPU acceleration (even if only basic block decoding), the G4 is easily fast enough.

That makes the eMac perfect for MorphOS. Why would you wait for G5 support? Karlos is right. There isn't any current software that would greatly benefit from the extra processing power.

I know I made that point, but it's still cool to have the fastest kit you can run your OS on, even if most apps (save the x264 codecs) don't really benefit.

[Piru]

Seriously though, these are the only apps that would probably benefit in that they aren't necessarily "fast enough" on a lower CPU. Of course, if one were to leverage GPU acceleration (even if only basic block decoding), the G4 is easily fast enough.

"web browsing / flash, emulators" could use GPU acceleration? How?

[Karlos]

"web browsing / flash, emulators" could use GPU acceleration? How?

I was referring to media players / video codecs, not web browsing :confused:

Re: emulators, well, OpenGL is used to accelerate display emulation (even if only to resize the funny aspect ratio screens) in various UAE implementations, is it not? Never mind emulation of various 3D consoles of old.

[Piru]

I was referring to media players / video codecs, not web browsing :confused:

Right. Well your comment didn't indicate that clearly.

Re: emulators, well, OpenGL is used to accelerate display emulation (even if only to resize the funny aspect ratio screens) in various UAE implementations, is it not?

Overlay is fully supported already. GPU won't make it any faster.

Never mind emulation of various 3D consoles of old.

That could work in theory, but I'd think in many (most) cases the 3d acceleration in emulation cannot be offloaded to the real GPU.

[Karlos]

Right. Well your comment didn't indicate that clearly.

Fair do's. TBH, I pretty much saw the media player / codec part and hit reply

Overlay is fully supported already. GPU won't make it any faster.

Well, the overlay is provided by the graphics hardware, so by definition it already is. It's not acceleration in the most obvious sense but a hardware feature of the GPU is freeing the CPU from having to do any display format conversion/scaling, so it still counts in my book. FWIW, some GPUs (may not apply here) only provide overlay services through video texture operations too.

That could work in theory, but I'd think in many (most) cases the 3d acceleration in emulation cannot be offloaded to the real GPU.

I was under the impression that several emulators already did this? I'm pretty sure FPSE, for example uses, or is able to use it.

[amigadave]

@All

I'd just like to apologise for the off-topic argument yesterday. I still stand by my points completely but in retrospect the entire exchange itself was, well, pretty pointless.

Probably better handled elsewhere than to further pollute a very polluted thread.

Apology accepted.

Edit:  It is hard for me to believe that this argument about MorphOS on a G5 PowerMac being a waste of time because that much power is not needed for anything we do while running MorphOS.  I can't think of a single post in any forum thread anywhere that I have seen that talks about the X1000 being a waste of time because more power than a 1GHz G4 A1 is all that is needed to do anything on AmigaOS4.x.  Would we be having this discussion if it were AmigaOS4.x being ported to the G5 PowerMac instead of MorphOS2.x?

And as I have tried to point out several times, ALL computer OSes have gotten more hardware power first and a way to take advantage of the power after the hardware was available, with very few exceptions.  Why can't these people still arguing that the G5 PowerMac is a stupid idea, or waste of time for the MorphOS Team to add support for understand that point?

[Iggy]

I don't know about everyone else, but I don't think porting MorphOS to the G5 is stupid.
I just think waiting until the G5 is supported is stupid.
We haven't even been given Powermac G4 support yet (I've got one of those waiting).
Before G5 support is introduced, I'll probably have one of those too.

But right now we have two cheap Mac G4s available with support (the 1.25 Ghz eMac and the G4 Mac Mini).
I'm not in any way against G5 support. I just don't think it makes sense to wait when G5 support probably won't be introduced till next year.
And these two Apple systems are already more powerful than all currently available AmigaOS hardware.

[Iggy]

Posted bids on two G5 systems.

[gdanko]

I would seek out a G5 but since I can't transfer my license I won't do that at this time.

[gdanko]

I don't know about everyone else, but I don't think porting MorphOS to the G5 is stupid.
I just think waiting until the G5 is supported is stupid.

I disagree. Let's say you currently have a Mini that is MorphOS-capable and purchase a license. You upgrade to a G5 but you need to buy a SECOND license because, from what I hear, you cannot transfer your license to a new machine unless the original machine is somehow inoperable.

Correct me if I'm wrong, MorphOS developers...

[Iggy]

I disagree. Let's say you currently have a Mini that is MorphOS-capable and purchase a license. You upgrade to a G5 but you need to buy a SECOND license because, from what I hear, you cannot transfer your license to a new machine unless the original machine is somehow inoperable.

Correct me if I'm wrong, MorphOS developers...

You don't need a MorphOS developer to address that one.
You're right. Unlike Windows, you can't transfer a MorphOS license from one machine to another.
Actually, you shouldn't be able to do that with Windows either, but Microsoft will allow you to upgrade your hardware to the point where it becomes your Grandfather's axe (head replaced twice, handle four times).

[gdanko]

Then it would be wise to wait for G5 support if you don't want to buy two copies, even though you'll only be using one.

[Golem!dk]

Then it would be wise to wait for G5 support if you don't want to buy two copies, even though you'll only be using one.

Ah yes... the waiting game, maybe we will get something even better to wait for before a release for G5 appears.

[Karlos]

Edit:  It is hard for me to believe that this argument about MorphOS on a G5 PowerMac being a waste of time because that much power is not needed for anything we do while running MorphOS.  I can't think of a single post in any forum thread anywhere that I have seen that talks about the X1000 being a waste of time because more power than a 1GHz G4 A1 is all that is needed to do anything on AmigaOS4.x.  Would we be having this discussion if it were AmigaOS4.x being ported to the G5 PowerMac instead of MorphOS2.x??

If you look back, you'll see that I also mention the PA6T in many of the posts that make this point.