d3GNOP - a new MiniGL game

[itix]

You can't use it on MorphOS. You can't use it on WinUAE or Amithlon or anything else but genuine AmigaOS.

Excuse me but if you are running AmigaOS 3.9 legally on your machine you are running genuine AmigaOS and MiniGL license restrictions do not apply.


Btw. you can use FindResident("MorphOS") to detect and reject MorphOS.

[mdwh2]

"It's my code. If you think it legally unenforcible, at least show some respect for that."

People use my code, but just because of that doesn't mean that they are obliged, either legally or ethically, to abide by whatever conditions I like.

I'm not sure where respect comes into it.. you're not showing any respect for their personal circumstances and hardware setup, either.

"Oh, sorry, I know, I'm red and bad. I shall not be respected because I am evil."

? Not sure what you mean here.

[zacman]

>You can't use it on MorphOS. You can't use it on
>WinUAE or Amithlon or anything else but genuine
>AmigaOS.

>I'm sure that others would like to interpret the
>license more liberal.

1) Are you saying that a user using a MiniGL
program (such as Heretic2) agrees to the license
agreement of the MiniGL by starting and running
this program?

2) Are you saying that a user running a program
that falls under MiniGL license vilolates this
license by running it on another OS than AmigaOS
such as MorphOS?

3) Are your answers provided here but not limited
to the questions above the official position of
Hyperion Entertainment?

[Rogue]

Instead of badmouthing morphOS and Pegasos all the time

You never cease to amaze me.

Where did I badmouth Pegasos or MorphOS please? I just stated my (very general) view about the usage of code that was mostly written by myself. I specifically didn't say "Pegasos is bad" nor "MorphOS is bad" - if you can point me to such a comment then please go ahead and do so - in this or any other thread, for the matter.

No respect for the original AmigaOS coders?

Pardon me if I don't see the connection here?

[Rogue]

Btw. you can use FindResident("MorphOS") to detect and reject MorphOS.

I never did, nor do I plan to do so, use any lockout mechanism. I am not really in the ScreenSemaphore mood, you know.

[Rogue]

People use my code, but just because of that doesn't mean that they are obliged, either legally or ethically, to abide by whatever conditions I like.

I'm not sure I understand - this could certainly be used as an excuse to condone piracy. Note I am not saying you do so, but this is how this comes across.

I'm not sure where respect comes into it.. you're not showing any respect for their personal circumstances and hardware setup, either.

I don't understand what hardware setup has to do with it. Or is an x86 user going to complain that he cannot run PPC software?

[Rogue]

Are you saying that a user using a MiniGL
program (such as Heretic2) agrees to the license
agreement of the MiniGL by starting and running
this program?

Heretic II comes with its own license stating that the license is valid for an Amiga computer. I think there had been people here complaining that it is illegal to run MacOS on MOL.

Are you saying that a user running a program
that falls under MiniGL license vilolates this
license by running it on another OS than AmigaOS
such as MorphOS?

I'm no lawyer (although it sometimes seems the web is full of them) but from my feeling, yes. I already stated that I don't mind, though.

Are your answers provided here but not limited
to the questions above the official position of
Hyperion Entertainment?

Nice try.

The answer is no. I am not a spokesperson of Hyperion Entertainment, nor does Hyperion Entertainment provide such statements on public forums. I think I specifically said "I" in the postings above. They reflect my own opinion. If this where a normal forum thread, it would show my signature below my posting which clearly states that all opinions expressed in my comments are my own and do not represent the opinion of Hyperion Entertainment.

[sdesros]

@Rogue:

Go on using MiniGL on MorphOS, I don't mind.

Thank you.  I would respect your wishes by not using MiniGL in a "MOS Native" binary.

I just wanted to bring this minor fact to attention for the next round of Hyperion badmouthing.Maybe you'll find that certain things would be missing if it wheren't for us.

I don't believe that I've ever badmouthed Hyperion.  If I have, then I'm sorry.  

I just get quite testy when I am told what platform I am allowed to use applications I've spent money towards (considering that I don't distribute them, I don't disassemble and reuse code/images found therein.  I also don't expect any technical support from Hyperion.)  

My classic amigas were definatly not in shape to run Quake II, Freespace and Heretic II.  If it weren't for my current platform, I would not have bought the software, which in turn would mean that I would not have supported my local dealer and not supported Hyperion in return.

I must confess that I might not have waited for OS4 (congratulations on the pre-release by the way).

[zacman]

>Heretic II comes with its own license stating
>that the license is valid for an Amiga computer.

This topic is also about d3GNOP. So do you think
that the user agrees to the MiniGL license by
running that program?

>The answer is no.

That's a bit strange. As the link you gave points
to the official Hyperion Entertainment homepage
where you get the impression that MiniGL is a
Hyperion Entertainment product.

1)Are you now saying that MiniGL does not belong
to Hyperion Entertainemt?

2)If not, why are you making statements about the
MiniGL license which might contradict the
official Hyperion position regarding this matter?

3)You're part of Hyperion so why would you have
a different opinion about that topic than
Hyperion?
And if so, aren't you just saying that your
statments above are null and void as it wasn't
the position of Hyperion?

[mdwh2]

"I'm not sure I understand - this could certainly be used as an excuse to condone piracy. Note I am not saying you do so, but this is how this comes across."

Except piracy is illegal. That is something which is dictated *by law*. However, emulating or otherwise running under different OS is not illegal.

"I don't understand what hardware setup has to do with it. Or is an x86 user going to complain that he cannot run PPC software?"

If there was a way he could run PPC software (eg, emulation), but you were saying that he's breaking the law or acting immorally, I'd completely disagree with you on both counts.

[mdwh2]

"I didn't want to imply that the author is in violation. But the licence of MiniGL prohibits the usage of the library on non-AmigaOS systems. This includes all MiniGL games (including Heretic II and Quake II)."

I had a read of your link, and it says:

"MiniGL may only be compiled for/ incorporated in code running on AmigaOS. All other rights reserved. This applies only to MiniGL, not to your application, i.e. It's OK to port the application to another platform using OpenGL."

So where on earth does it say that end users can only use this library on Amiga systems - nevermind that such a restriction has no legal weight, it doesn't even say it in the licence.

What the licence says as far as I can tell is that someone can not use it to compile something for a platform other than AmigaOS (and then distribute it). This is legally enforceable, because to distribute a program based on this library, you're distributing some of the code, and so must abide by any terms.

But if the program is compiled for AmigaOS, but someone emulates that on another OS, that's touch luck (unless Hyperion are able to succeed in court better than Sony and Microsoft?)

Now, let's RTFA:

http://www.nic.fi/~varsa/d3gnop/index.html

"Requirements

"Amiga with at least 68040 (PPC is supported via WarpOS) or compatible"

Suggests it's been compiled for AmigaOS. And to be sure, "The game should also run on other compatible platforms/under emulation with right setup (MorphOS, WinUAE)." Note, *emulation*.

[Rogue]

1)Are you now saying that MiniGL does not belong to Hyperion Entertainemt?

Care to explain how you get that idea?

2)If not, why are you making statements about the MiniGL license which might contradict the
official Hyperion position regarding this matter?

How can you know that I contradict the official Hyperion position? AFAIK no official Hyperion statement has been given.

You're part of Hyperion so why would you have
a different opinion about that topic than
Hyperion?

Some Hyperion members vote left-wing, others vote right-wing, other vote liberal. What does that say about the official political stance of Hyperion?

You guessed it. Nothing. So don't try to put word in my or Hyperion's mouth.

Do all Americans agree on the war in Iraq? I don't think so, in spite of their government. Do all germans condem the war? I don't think so, in spite of their government. So where does your statement lead?

And if so, aren't you just saying that your
statments above are null and void as it wasn't
the position of Hyperion?

No, because I explicitly make them as my personal opinion. If a US citicen says that the war in Iraq was wrong, does that make him a non-American because he has an opinion that differs from his government? I don't think so. Does that make his statements null and void? I don't think so either.

That is all I am going to say about it. Your blatant attempts to trick me into some official statement on Hyperion's behalf are quite obvious, although quite clumsy.

Again, I speak on my own behalf, not on behalf of Hyperion. Believe it or not my opinion on some subjects is allowed to differ from the official Hyperion position.

[Rogue]

Note, *emulation*.[/quite]

So, is MacOS emulation legal?

[Madgun68]

I never did, nor do I plan to do so, use any lockout mechanism. I am not really in the ScreenSemaphore mood, you know.

They both reach the same result anyhoo.

As the saying goes.. "Vote with your pocketbook."

[zacman]

>Again, I speak on my own behalf, not on behalf
>of Hyperion.

I'm not asking you if you speak on behalf of
Hyperion but if your opinion differs from the
official one of Hyperion.

If it did, your statement is null and void. If
not, why not just say that you have the same
opinion? Of what are you afraid of?

[Jupp3]

Note, *emulation*.

So, is MacOS emulation legal?

Well, that's completely different matter.

afaik, MacOS has license, that grants permission to run it only on Macintosh hardware.

Minigl license permits developers to compile only for AmigaOS, but no matter how I look at the license text, it doesn't seem to forbid running resulting code on other operating systems...

(Of course developer could make his own license)