Amiga.org and Bias

[Argo]

Quote:
"... and think they can troll us, so naturally we troll back.
No, you don't automatically 'troll back' just because somebody trolls you."

"There is always the option of sitting back and ignoring people. "

Or just contact an admin about the situation. There is also the handy "Contact Us" link under System in the Extra Stuff Menu.

[Vincent]

Merko wrote:
Just as an example: This latest thing with the Agreement/No agreement  exchange between bbrv and McEwen. I can't help but noticing that when  AInc made their statements, there were quite a lot of people instantly  taking this as some kind of "proof" that bbrv were lying. On the  contrary, when bbrv makes statements, the vast majority of  Pegasos/MorphOS supporters try to make the two statements fit together  somehow rather than automatically believing bbrv's words as the only  valid point of view and McEwen to be full of lies.

I see this the other way round.  MOS/Genesi fans seem to gladly take bbrv's word for things and deny that any truth is in A.Inc's statements.  This has happened a LOT on forums I'm a member of.  A.Inc fans usually wait and see what BOTH parties say before doing anything.

Sure some people from both sides jump to conclusions right away and get aggressive/aggressively protective towards the other camp, but they're just the usual trolls.

But enough of that, both sides are generally as bad as each other.

alx commented:
Out of interest, what is Wayne's official position now? If he does still have moderator capabilities, can his rank say that to avoid confusion?

That's what I'd like to know.  From the Ray situation it seems as though he doesn't have mod powers anymore.  (Sorry for bringing that up, but it's just an observation)

[Doobrey]

With the A1, Peg and MOS out and with AOS4 and MOS1.4 on the horizon, I'd imagine that our little platform might get a bit more interest, and this would be an obvious site for newbies. Flamewars affect all the OSes.

Too right, I wonder how many potential new/returning users have decided that it`s not worth coming back to?
More importantly, how does it look to potential business partners of either company? They`d take one look here (and at ANN.lu) and take their money elsewhere.

[System]

If Amiga.org will be consistent with regard to these guidelines (mods themselves includes) this would IMO mean an enormous improvement.

:-)

However often when someone supports Amiga companies at AO they are being ridiculed by others and called names like BAFs. Or even when people bring up AmigaWorld.net positively they are being attacked for being some kind of traitor or being treated with disrespect.

The preference towards a certain platform or company does not make someone a troll, but it's the behaviour of these trolling individuals.

Tolerance and respect for eachother are IMO the pillars for a strong Amiga community. I hope AO will fairly enforce these guidelines.

:-D

[redrumloa]

That's what I'd like to know. From the Ray situation it seems as though he doesn't have mod powers anymore. (Sorry for bringing that up, but it's just an observation)

This may be more of a question for Kees or Wayne, but I don't think I'm stepping out of line answering it.

Kees is the Senior Webmaster, the buck stops with him(no pun intended). Wayne still has the ability to make modifications, but he is not. The most he is doing right now is in a supportive role handing over the reigns.

Behind the scenes we get along like a family, you'd be surprised.  There is no reason to strip Wayne of any mod rights. He is still the owner of this site, even though he is no longer managing it.

Just my take on the subject.

[Paul_Gadd]

Why not simply say both companies are a shower of ####e instead of defending one or the other, these companies are NOT professionals at all and deserve no ones support  until they either release the goods or stop acting like fools.

So the world may know (indeed we know alright)

[redrumloa]

@MikeB

However often when someone supports Amiga companies at AO they are being ridiculed by others and called names like BAFs. Or even when people bring up AmigaWorld.net positively they are being attacked for being some kind of traitor or being treated with disrespect.

IMO highly exagerated. However if anyone has a serious gripe about being ridiculed, please contact a moderator and it will be dealt with.

The preference towards a certain platform or company does not make someone a troll, but it's the behaviour of these trolling individuals.

This is very, very true. Please takes these words to heart at aw.net. IMO it is needed there.

Tolerance and respect for eachother are IMO the pillars for a strong Amiga community. I hope AO will fairly enforce these guidelines.

I would suggest you take the same approach at aw.net.

[bhoggett]

@SirLancelotDuLac

I can't say I agree with you.

Antisocial behaviour IS a matter of opinion, PERIOD.

That's debatable.  If we're going by such absolutes, then everything is a matter of opinion, and there is no such thing as right or wrong. There is no upside or downside. There is no honest or dishonest. It's all a matter of opinion. People can say whatever they want, however abusive or untrue, because it's just a matter of opinion. Murder is not wrong, theft is not wrong, rape is not wrong... they're all a matter of opinion. Hell, there's nothing wrong in doing things that are illegal, because laws are only people's opinions too.

You see, when you apply generalisations and absolutes together, your view of the world will become seriously skewed.

[reflect]

redrumloa :
I rarely speak against AO, or any other site, and rarely against people either. But right now, it looks to me as just cause it was MikeB that presented his viewpoint, you got into a defensive posture and instead of actually thinking about what he said, you put up a mirror and just deflected it back.

Can't we please look beyond our personal preferences for once, and move forward instead of stomping at the same spot all the time?

[System]

@ redrumloa

IMO highly exagerated. However if anyone has a serious gripe about being ridiculed, please contact a moderator and it will be dealt with.

I know what happened in the past directed against directed me personally, Fleecy Moss and lots of other Amiga supporting people. A large group of people seem to feel like this. IMO it's better take their opinions seriously.

I still remember it when you personally started a witchhunt against me, stating that I would lead some kind of conspiracy effort. Your comments at the time were quite heated, disrespectful and insulting towards me.

This is very, very true. Please takes these words to heart at aw.net. IMO it is needed there.

We do. We are very transparent and open with regards to our moderations. Nearly always sharing the reasons for why a comment was moderated.

I would suggest you take the same approach at aw.net.

Everyone is being wellcomed at AmigaWorld.net, including MOS fans (if they can accept that the website is not focussed at MOS). AmigaWorld.net staff is not negative towards this platform itself or its users. People are judged on their actions, not on their preferences.

[redrumloa]

@reflect

But right now, it looks to me as just cause it was MikeB that presented his viewpoint, you got into a defensive posture and instead of actually thinking about what he said, you put up a mirror and just deflected it back.

You are entitled to that opinion.

Can't we please look beyond our personal preferences for once, and move forward instead of stomping at the same spot all the time?

Sure. However badmouthing AO for the sake of badmouthing AO is bad form and borderline trolling. I really do not appreciate that.

[redrumloa]

I still remember it when you personally started a witchhunt against me, stating that I would lead somekind of conspiracy effort. Your comments at the time were quite heated, disrespectful and insulting towards me.

I didn't start anything Mike, you know how the history went.

Anyhow this is not productive, I really do not want to get into this in public with you again. Feel free to email me if you wish.

-Edit-
I almost forgot, have a nice day :-)

-Edit #2-
Hey Mike, need a new amiga ?  :-D

[unclecurio]

Hmmm.... not posted here for a while (long enough that my account got deleted)

I switched to 'that other site' a while ago for the very reasons outlined above. I still visit A.Org though and have felt disappointment at seeing the threads that got out of hand (there have been a fair few).

I've never known a twitchier bunch than Amigans. I think there's a fair degree of 'cabin fever' going on thats caused by ppl being on uncertain ground, knowing what they'd like to see but being unable to really get on with the business of building a real active community based on a healthy number of active users. Once both platforms have gained some ground and there's more to get excited about than court cases and conflicting press releases, we should be able to get on with it and quit the bickering.

@Kees

I've not read enough of you posts to be able to really know your views but I've seen plenty of posts supporting you and hope that you can stop the in-fighting so that I can start to regard this site as home again (well, second home at least :-D )

Like someone said, this site is for the broader community. AW serves the AInc/Hyperion solution and Morphzone caters for Genesi's solution.  I, personally appreciate that such a site exists and would like to see a return to form.

[System]

@ redrumloa

Sure. However badmouthing AO for the sake of badmouthing AO is bad form and borderline trolling. I really do not appreciate that.

That's not what I am trying to do. I know there are many people unhappy with the way AO has been run of late. I am only sharing my views as IMO they are founded and AO could benefit from discussing these views.

I want both AmigaWorld.net and Amiga.org to prosper. I honestly want the Amiga.org portal to offer a constructive environment to its users. Most people returning to the Amiga community will likely  first see Amiga.com and soon afterwards the Amiga.org website (with thousand of webpages linking to AO). All the fighting is IMO not in the best interest of the Amiga community.

What should a new AmigaOS4 interested individual think when he goes to an Amiga community portal and sees Amiga supporters being ridiculed? I believe many newbies would expect something like this to happen at a MorphOS website, but at an Amiga community portal?

I didn't start anything Mike, you know how the history went.

It was an example. At the time you stated those were your personal opinions, but they were really far too hostile towards me.

If you stand open for discussion I would gladly clear things up with regard to the past, as there never was any sort of conspiracy on my part. I'll send you an e-mail.  :-)

[Kees]

Yes, send echother an e-mail and sort things out in private.

Amiga.org will not be a battleground as clearly stated in the above announcement.

[redrumloa]

If you stand open for discussion I would gladly clear things up with regard to the past, as there never was any sort of conspiracy on my part. I'll send you an e-mail.

I'm all open for it Mike, send me an email. I don't like grudges and this one has been lingering on both sides.