Amiga.org and Bias

[redrumloa]

If you stand open for discussion I would gladly clear things up with regard to the past, as there never was any sort of conspiracy on my part. I'll send you an e-mail.

I'm all open for it Mike, send me an email. I don't like grudges and this one has been lingering on both sides.

[redrumloa]

Amiga.org will not be a battleground as clearly stated in the above announcement.

Yes sir!

[SirLancelotDuLac]

Antisocial behaviour IS a matter of opinion, PERIOD.

@Bill

That's debatable. If we're going by such absolutes, then everything is a matter of opinion, and there is no such thing as right or wrong. There is no upside or downside. There is no honest or dishonest. It's all a matter of opinion. People can say whatever they want, however abusive or untrue, because it's just a matter of opinion. Murder is not wrong, theft is not wrong, rape is not wrong... they're all a matter of opinion. Hell, there's nothing wrong in doing things that are illegal, because laws are only people's opinions too.

You see, when you apply generalisations and absolutes together, your view of the world will become seriously skewed.

Who applied generalizations and absolutes together?  I stated an absolute fact; everything is an opinion, period.  Terrorists MURDERED thousands of people by crashing planes in the world trade center.  In my opinion, they were WRONG AND EVIL for doing so.  However, in their opinion, they were RIGHT AND JUSTIFIED!  America murdered many terrorists retaliating for that act.  In most Americans opinion, we were RIGHT AND JUSTIFIED!  However, in others opinion we were WRONG AND EVIL!  

If murder is just plain wrong, then it should be wrong in both directions, however, I bet you would find it difficult to find someone say a man was wrong for murdering the person who murdered his wife and children.  If someone steals from me and there are loopholes in the law preventing me from getting it back legally, am I wrong for breaking the law and stealing MY property back?  

Laws are the majorities opinion of what is right, sometimes they help bring justice, sometimes they help prevent it.  Sometimes the law gives you no choice and forces you to break it.  If you and your family were starving, you could not afford food and no one was willing to give it to you for free, would you not steal it from someone who has plenty?  Would you be wrong for doing so?  

If you simply look at this world in black and white, you will NEVER see the color it provides.

[Damion]

I think meerschaum is right. Let's look at the
people crying bias...it's like what, maybe
10-15 people tops, out of how many thousand
users???

The facts:

Amiga.org caters to everything even remotely
'amiga-like'

A-INC the 'COMPANY" doesn't really have much
going on atm as far as products/development, so
the discussions are comparatively not
representative of them (this may change for a
time when OS4 is released)

The discussions are representative of the
USERS of the site, and not predetermined by
any one entity

I do not see helpless people interested in OS4
being attacked at this site, ever. The people
who get attacked are in the words of MikeB
"well known trolls" who ask for it

-edit-
The forum topics here alone show that the
site has more "classic" amiga threads
than anything else, so it is not "biased"


These are all facts...(as I see them)

[Argo]

SirLancelotDuLac:
Wouldn't that be more of a matter of perspective? As who each person see/experience an event and interpets its meaning/significance to themselves. Thus forming an opinion on the relivant related topics.

May I ask what you do for a living? Do you have a degree in Sociology, Psycology, or Ethics? Just curious. I'm finding this facinating, though I hope it doesn't get cirular.

[SirLancelotDuLac]

@Argo

SirLancelotDuLac:
Wouldn't that be more of a matter of perspective? As who each person see/experience an event and interpets its meaning/significance to themselves. Thus forming an opinion on the relivant related topics.

Perspective, that's an excellent way of describing what I've been trying to explain.  If you grow up in a tribe of cannibals, are you wrong for thinking it's okay to eat humans?  Your experiences in life say it?s okay to do; my experiences say it's not and I should defend myself if you try to kill and eat me.  My personal opinion on what constitutes anti-social behavior is this: as long as everyone involved are consenting adults, it is NOT Anti-Social behavior, otherwise it is.  Your right to live should not infringe on my right to live, if it does, expect a fight.  This is why I believe censorship is not necessarily a bad thing, sometimes it takes a moderator to censor things so they won't infringe on other peoples rights.  Whether you want to consider it "censorship" or would rather use the sugar coated word "moderation", so be it.  Just realize both are infringing on one individual's views to avoid offending another.

May I ask what you do for a living? Do you have a degree in Sociology, Psycology, or Ethics? Just curious. I'm finding this facinating, though I hope it doesn't get cirular.

Nope, I am a computer programmer.  I'm just the type of guy who likes to sit back and observe.  I find it fascinating how people's personalities can be seen in almost every mundane action that they do.  I never even thought of pursuing a degree or career in Sociology, etc., probably because I didn't want it to become "the same old thing I do everyday."  I always put myself in "the other person's" shoes before I form an opinion to see if there is any possible reason for doing something.  I have found the best way to understand everyone else, is to strive to understand the self.  The more I understand about my habits and myself, the easier it is for my to understand someone else's habits.

[QuikSanz]

@Kees
Amen. people should be at least civil, made that point many times. A friendly dispute is no problem. personal flame wars, THATS a problem. Even as we are in the heat of the summer, there is always room to keep your cool.

Chris

[meerschaum]

@MikeB

perhaps people who support verbatim Amiga companies come under redicule because they deserve it?... its like a heroin junkie telling others its no big deal..how many heroin junkies do you think are taken seriousely?... but then again this isnt a normal person I'm talking to...this is you... and you probably yourself think Amiga.inc is the top-end of this community...without any respect for other peoples legitimate labors.

[DaveC]

There is no friction, factions, wars, or infighting on the MorphOS websites.  Sorry to dissapoint MikeB, but those feelings are strictly felt on the classic community websites.  

Why? Because the rift isn't between companies.  The rift is between the people of our community.  It's there because people on both sides like to point the finger.  It's there because people on both sides want others to make the same decisions they have made.  The rift is there because we are all individuals and make our choices independantly.  The rift is there because we are people.

[reflect]

seriously, meerschaum... that was uncalled for.
Making people who support the Amiga Triad equal to heroin junkies.. this is exactly what starts a flamewar. I don't go around and flame morphos users for their choice..  What reason do you have for looking down on people cause they like OS4 and/or Amiga Inc? Just let them think what they like, it's a free world after all, isn't it?

I really don't see why people has to react a certain way just cause in the past, this person has said X or Y. Listen to what this person says now instead and try to put yourself in his shoes. Is it really that unfathomable? I think not, but that's just me. Until the day comes when we can have a civil discussion, without cheap shots at eachother, without drawing paralells towards various things that aren't favourable, I fear this "community" is severely limping. Just take a moment and think through what SirLancealot said. He makes quite good points throughout the entire discussion, and he does this witout insulting people. It's not like it's anything wrong with that.. is it? I mean respect and empathy..

I've been called alot of things in my life, and a not so little part of those things has happened since I joined this "community".. people putting a label on you just cause you say this or that. I think it's unfair. Especially this BAF and BMF thing. Most people I have met aren't BAF's or BMF's.. one likes OS4, another likes MOS, but they still agrees on alot of things. But online, it seems like just cause you haven't met the person, or you can't see their facial expressions or body language while writing, people automatically assume that they are attacking you personally, and thus respond in kind. I find it sad.

Enough of my rant, this will be my last post in this thread, I think.

in hope of more understanding from ALL sides..
reflect

[Dr_Righteous]

Why even bother with all this? Amiga rules... Thus everything even remotely related to it rules. Be it emulation, original hardware, enhancements and upgrades, new systems, experimental systems, hispanic girlfriends... Whatever!

Everyone boing your butterfly while playing with kitty!  :-P

[olegil]

@Dammy:

Nope, I don't have a CSPPC to run OS4 on. And there's a LOT of anxious people waiting to beta OS4 on A1 as soon as it is possible, so I don't expect to be picked out just for being me ;-)

[olegil]

@redrumloa:

I'm currently on a crusade to make moderators everywhere start doing "moderation" instead of ust censorship ;-)

You not using that word (it's know to stir up feelings) would be a start, yes :-)

[bhoggett]

@SirLancelotDuLac

I stated an absolute fact; everything is an opinion, period.

Well, yes, that's true in the absolute sense. Of course, that also means that everyone who has an opinion is biased, and since every thought anyone has is only an opinion, everyone is therefore biased.

Does that satisfy your analysis?

I now return you to your scheduled programming.

[uncharted]

@Kees

I truely feel sorry for you because I know that you are trying your best to keep things balanced here.  There are several problems here though.

First it has become apparent that Wayne lied about his impartiality and abused his position here to further an agenda.  I was very pissed off with Wayne as I was taken in by his little act.

Secondly there ARE people (or an individual it's not clear who exactly) here who have abused thier position as moderator, webmaster, admin or whatever in the past.  The one time I'm hugely critical of a member of Genesi, with good reason and a stack of evidence to back it up, the thread suddenly disappears of the face of the Earth without warning or explaination.

Thirdly there are 2 Genesi employees with high positions on here.  I'm sorry but there is no way you can be impartial when you are that much into the core of the arguement.  Would you trust an Intel employee to remain unbiased on a processor site? Especially if thier job title was "Community relations" (a fluffy way of saying PR)?

I'm sorry to sound so negative, but recent revalations, and a bit of hindsight have made me even more cynical than I was before.  I wonder if any other hobbies have this level of politics, lies and general bullshit???

Anyways, I wish you the best of luck Kees with getting things sorted, but I fear it's not going to be easy.  I think my motto regarding the Amiga "Community" from now on will be "Trust No One" :-(

[meerschaum]

@reflect

I'm not calling anyone anything, I'm useing a metaphor... Mike_B consistently insults and wages anti-sentiment against MOS/etc... as he did in his last post before mine... I dont litterly consider an Amiga.inc supporter on-par with a junkie...

He's sitting there throwing little petty insults out...all in the name of 'stopping the trolls' it's so hipocritical it makes me sick...