AROS vs traditional Amiga vs SAM

[persia]

@Gebrochen

Of course we can love Macs and Amigas, the competition ended long ago.  The Amiga is a great fun computer, something to tinker with.  The Mac is a productivity machine.  They each have their place.

As for Sam, let's see, over priced, proprietary chips. kinda buggy, yep it's an Amiga....

[Gebrochen]

@ Persia:

I have only used my SAM440EP with Amiga OS4.1 since it has arrived. I havent touched windows, I have had absolutely no need to. And I can not see much of a reason for this changing, unless Elder scrolls V or Gothic IV come out.

But big deal, a couple of games.(that I happen to love the series of)

I had a dvd running at fullscreen with no problems and n slowness. I have had 6 gmes running at once, with the sounds all running simultaneously.

Again, I have not yet experience and real or proper bugs like the others have with their screens and so forth, but ten, I have trned off the compositing 3d engine for the opacity like screens in favor of functionality. Once I had turned this off, everything worked beautifully.

Also to note, If I use x86 hardware again in home time, after hous from work, it ill be running ubuntu or AROS.

Another note here, at first I was concerned about the price of the sam, etc, etc, but now, I havent looked back and am so happy I went ahead with the purchase.

Not to mention, I am a first real time user of Amiga OS, as the last OS I had touched reguarly was when I was a kid 1.3

Add to this thatI am greatful that my farther had a simplistic view on life and always black and white, as he has really managed to wear off enough on me. I am only glad that when in my mid teens onwards, I had stopped using a1000 for homework, in favour of warcraft 2 and the like, that he kept it.

I will not sell that machine now, it is like a constant reminder of him, and the good times we had on it before his deathbed. I remeber as a kid, how he hated windows, for its stupidity of trying to make everything coplicated, in the sense of, the OS was controlling you, whereby he prefered the Amiga OS, as you were controlling the OS.

Anyway, hooked in my hub recently, with webcam, usb printer (epson), rubber flexo keyboard, and left one spare for other stuff.

Also I like the fact that I can rename my USB stick that I plug into the amiga, for fun, I called it dickhead, restarted the machine, and sure enough, when I plugged it back into the usb port, my amiga remebered it.

Since ive changed it back to Astone.

Cheers.

[Piru]

@Gebrochen

Also I like the fact that I can rename my USB stick that I plug into the amiga, for fun, I called it dickhead, restarted the machine, and sure enough, when I plugged it back into the usb port, my amiga remebered it.

Wow. I mean Wow. Relabeling a volume, that IS just impressive. How can I get that for my Mac OS X and Windows!?!

[Caius]

Atheist wrote:
I can't believe the amount of people that are posting with "join" dates of year 2007 and 2008, here and on AmigaWorld.Net.

Add to that, the amount of people in the last short while who are posting with join dates of 3 and more years ago, and they have under 100 posts, and many with even less than 20!!!!


Anyone else notice?

What are you trying to get at? Does number of posts somehow measure your Amiga knowledge, or the credibility of your opinions?

I completely fail to see how that's relevant to this or any other thread.

[paolone]

Hmmm... hasn't thois topic little derailed from its original subject?

Anyway, just my 2 cents on discussions here:

1. AmigaOS 4.1 on SAM440EP is just a replacement for ageing Amiga classic computers with frankenstein expansion boards and tons of system hacks which make them barely intellegible/usable and some sort of "poor men's modern computers" using obsolete but pricey features. What makes this solution "more Amiga" than others is the official support for AmigaOS 4.1. Yes, I mean 'official' because unless Hyperion loses the trial, they are the authors of the software, so it's their right to decide who is gonna use it.

2. At this point of the Amiga situation, everything about "what's Amiga, what's not" is questionable. From my personal point of view, for istance, everything that acts like Amiga and has born within the Amiga community *is* far more "Amiga" than Amiga Inc's actual products (this, unless you think that the AmigaDE and the poor games they're selling are Amiga). So if you're asking me what Amiga I do own today, I'd answer that my actual miggies are my Athlon64 AROS machine and my AmigaOS 4.1 SAM440EP. And IMHO they're both Amiga, even if Amiga Inc. had not endorsed or recognized or licensed any of them. Oh, there's also my copy of Amiga Forever and my old dismissed A1200, but I rarely (almost never) use them.

3. Since I use both AROS and AmigaOS 4.1 I can see their pros and they cons. There are things better done in AmigaOS 4.1, but also things that were better made on AROS. For istance, try to place a PC cdrom on both operating systems, and while in AmigaOS you'll be forced to choose "all files" view in the Window menu, AROS will choose this view automatically, due to a precise design decision took while developing it (AROS uses view > all files on any volume that has no amiga disk.icon file in its root - this will be helpful when Michal has completed his mass storage bounty too). InstallAROS is also far easier to use than AmigaOS 4.1 install procedure. For the rest, AmigaOS is far more complete, but there were people hired and paid to code it, and Hyperion could start from original Commodore sources, which helped a lot.

4. A comparison between AROS and AmigaOS doesn't make so much sense, since one is opensource and the other not. Everyone with proper skill might improve AROS as he/she likes. AROS is not a competitor for AmigaOS, since there is no company targeting their products to the same AmigaOS potential owners.

5. All in all, both AROS and AmigaOS are flawed by an ageing structure and an almost useless API for today's jobs. We can continue adapting ourselves to use ported or rewritten applications, in order to painfully do things that users of other platforms can do in a single click, choosing from dozens of competing apps, using cheap and far more powerful hardware. Other platforms are aiming to hybrid calculations model based on the use of both CPU and GPU (just look at what OpenCL, CUDA and DirectX 11 are), while we're still looking for transparent borders in windows, or enjoying an almost-useless memory protection model in the latest release of the OS (15 years after any other OS got it). Evolution urges.

[dammy]

by Gebrochen on 2008/11/19 20:24:45

DOnt wish to get flamed, but I cleared this topic with you a few weks ago also, that for me, SAM440ep with os4.1 is ads AMIGA computer as it gets for me. It is the first time I have finally been able to have a modern Amiga system.

If you want to buy the SAM440 for OS4, I have no issue with that as you may do as you wish with your own money.  The only issue I have with the current end run around the contract that Hyperion signed with Eyetech and AI is calling the SAM440 and Amiga.  Unless the Trio decides it's an Amiga and get the Amiga badge, it's not an Amiga.  I can go get say a A3000 and run Unix on it.  It's not an Unix box, it's an Amiga running Unix.  The same can not be said for a SAM440.

Now it does pain me to say those awful Teron mobos rebadged were Amigas because AI/Eyetech/Hyperion said it was.  I certainly wouldn't consider it an Amiga, but those who own the IP and their partners can and did.  So I have to call it an AmigaOne and not a OS4 box.  Who knows, in six hours you maybe able to call SAM440 an Amiga, or not.

Dammy

[Amithony]

persia wrote:
@Gebrochen

Of course we can love Macs and Amigas, the competition ended long ago.  The Amiga is a great fun computer, something to tinker with.  The Mac is a productivity machine.  They each have their place.

As for Sam, let's see, over priced, proprietary chips. kinda buggy, yep it's an Amiga....

Its not what you have, but how you use it. I wonder if Newtek will release a version of Lightwave for the SAM?

[Amithony]

Phantom wrote:
Dammy is right. SAM is not Amiga. If you remove the AmigaOS, there is nothing inside that reminds Amiga.

Hence the new affectionate title of SAMiga. Which is half half. Sound fair?

[Amithony]

Caius wrote:

Atheist wrote:
I can't believe the amount of people that are posting with "join" dates of year 2007 and 2008, here and on AmigaWorld.Net.

Add to that, the amount of people in the last short while who are posting with join dates of 3 and more years ago, and they have under 100 posts, and many with even less than 20!!!!


Anyone else notice?

What about the price of Amiga hardware skyrocketing?

[paolone]

1. I can't believe the amount of people that are posting with "join" dates of year 2007 and 2008, here and on AmigaWorld.Net.

2. Add to that, the amount of people in the last short while who are posting with join dates of 3 and more years ago, and they have under 100 posts, and many with even less than 20!!!!

As someone else has already pointed out, writing tons of messages or being here since 1985 won't make anyone clever. From my perspective, the fact that many former amigans felt the need to post to these forums is only positive: it means there is still interest in the Amiga platfrom. And, about people sending a few messages in years, I can only say I prefer who keeps his/her mouth shut, if he/she has nothing valuable to say. Regards,

[Hans_]

dammy wrote:
Even if I was still a AROS supporter, what possible difference could it make to me about what OS SAM440 is running since it runs AROS as well? Would I be losing out on a sale? Would I be losing out on any money? So I'm not sure what your trying to prove.

The more Amiga enthusiasts switch to OS4, the less interest there is in other systems, including AROS, Anubis, or whatever your preference is. It's very telling that certain individuals never cease to find a negative slant with which to derail OS4.x and SAM 440 threads. Whatever your motivation, it's annoying to have the same old negative trash repeated over and over.

I still point to the fact, it's not officially being called an "Amiga" two or four.five or whatever, it's still a SAM440.

It doesn't need to have the word Amiga in the name. Amiga Inc. themselves said that they were interested in porting OS4.x to that system back when their business relationship with Hyperion hadn't turned sour.

That depends on your view of the lawsuit and the licensing agreement. The judge has allowed Hyperion to continue as if the original agreement was in place and it is legally questionable whether Amiga Inc. have any say over Amiga OS at all.

Original agreement spelled out what hardware could run OS4.  Harware was either existing or AmigaOne.  The hardware for the AmigaOne was designated by the other half of the Amiga partners, Eyetech. Has Eyetech designated SAM440 as an AmigaONE?

The definition of Target PPC hardware in the agreement did not require Eyetech's endorsement, permission or anything else. In fact, it didn't even say that Amiga Inc. had to label it as such. IIRC, it simply had to be marketed as an Amiga and sold with the OS.

The judge clearly stated he would allow continue under the current circumstances, which is before Hyperion went with SAM440, since it was about money and that could be corrected at a later date. So it's legally questionable if Hyperion and any retail outlets be held responsible for unlawful sales of Amiga Inc's IP.

Rejection of the injunction gave the right to proceed for now. Whether they get to keep the money is another issue.


Regardless, I'm done with this topic. If you wish to believe that nothing new can be an Amiga because Amiga Inc. haven't branded it due to the lawsuit, go ahead. However, I do hope that the next OS4.x or SAM 440 thread won't end back up on this topic, or other negative topics.

Hans

[Hans_]

Back on topic.

Amithony wrote:
Im starting to take an interest in Aros also. is it like a version of the OS that can run on any platform? (Ala Java-esque?) I havent seen it in action, but it is definitely something that I would like to try out.

AROS has a live CD for x86 so you can try it out for yourself pretty easily. Just download the CD image, burn it to CD, and boot from the CD. It's been a while since I tried AROS, but it does look like an Amiga system and is pretty fast and responsive. There's just not much that can be done with it due to lack of software. Now that it has a native compiler that can compile AROS itself, this may slowly change.

I stopped using classic Amigas when I moved and left my A1200 behind (too heavy to ship across the world). I did briefly use Amikit, but, next to Amiga OS 4.x, it's sluggish (at least on my 1.6 GHz turion 64). After using Amiga OS 4, I wouldn't switch back to OS 3.9, especially now that I have Amiga OS 4.1. It is way better than OS 3.9 is, even when it's heavily patched with extensions. The SAM clearly comes out on top in my view.

Hans

[drHirudo]

Now it does pain me to say those awful Teron mobos rebadged were Amigas because AI/Eyetech/Hyperion said it was.  I certainly wouldn't consider it an Amiga, but those who own the IP and their partners can and did.  So I have to call it an AmigaOne and not a OS4 box.  Who knows, in six hours you maybe able to call SAM440 an Amiga, or not.

Dammy

Dammy, let me tell you something. These boards are Amigas. My mircoAmigaOne is Amiga because it replaced completely my A4000 with the hard drive taken from it and the same software. When I had A1200 and then acquired A4000, I simply transferred the hard drive to the A4000. The same with the microAmigaOne. I didn't need any emulations, UAE integrations or other workaround like it would be with AROS. Before the A1200, I had A600 with AmigaOS 3.5 which I replaced with A1200 and later upgraded to AmigaOS 3.9. The first hard drive for the A1200 was taken from the A600, but it was small and 2.5 inch and I replaced it with bigger (40GB). I still run AmigaOS on all these machines, and even the YAM version I use is and old install back from 2001. Some of the other software still have the drawers dated from their creation back to 1999.

I am an Amiga user I can tell you that these boards are Amigas. If you are a Mac fan or Windows fan, that's okay. But your claims repeated thousands times in your posts during the past years, are really boring now. You sound like a kid who hopes that if he repeats something thousands times, it will become true, even if the others say it is not. :lol: I think you as a fan of other platforms, not connected to the Amiga at all, are not in a position to decide what is an Amiga and what is not. Most of the Amiga users already said it is an Amiga and you can check their opinions. Even some people who are new to the Amiga. I believe the Amiga users, not you. :lol:

Getting angry because the SAM is too expensive, would not make it less Amiga either. The Amiga is more expensive than the other platforms with similar specifications since the 80286 days, but the Amigas sold even then. Amigas are sold even today, and currently all the Amiga dealers are out of stock of SAM Boards, which means that you have to wait. Meaning that there is demand for Amigas, and people prefer them for various reasons despite the price. SAM is an Amiga.

[jj]

@ Piru

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Dude your level of sarcasm is up there with the best, are you british  :-D

[Gebrochen]

@ Piru;

I know one can do it on other platforms, but, is it a simple case of right clicking, renaming the volume.(read next sentence first)

then when you restart the computer, does that OS remember what you had named that usb Stick volume??

either way, I found it easier to do on my amiga (Piru must be MR.Mac man.) (smiles) which is fine by me Mac boy, I only have something against windows.

Anyway, I am happy to say, I prefer using Amiga OS4.1, and I am in less stress than when I was using windows, the start up times are cut down by 70% atleast at cold boot, and warm booting is further cut down.

there are many other things I prefer versus MS and other OS's.

If I do use another os, it is on my spare setup x86 with AROS or Ubuntu.

AS for my xp, havent touched it, and only plan to emulate windows momentarily to retrieve some data from that piece of {bleep} OS(IMHO). Only thing that may get me on it, is the emulation of AmiKit, I liked Magellan and all those adf's I d/l'ed (alien breed 2 : the killing grounds "LOVE IT")

Luckily, I only have to use it at work these days, and every day for the 5 days I use it, it pisses me off contantly, at how slow my 3ghz machine is with 1.5 gig ram, just to load up in the mornings, not to mention during working on it, be it pdfs or CAD.(bloody programming of the MS OS if you ask me, that MS OS would have to be reprogrammed entirely to be any good in my eyes)

Honestly, after using a friends mac semi reguarly, Id rather a mac on x86 than piece of {bleep} windows. But they both have downsides, macs can also be slow, due to them saving a file or executable like photoshop after opening, so it opens faster the next time you open it, WTF, who thought of that.

Anyway, Your alright Piru, Ive grown to like your humour and sarcasm bull. haha.

cheers.

 :-D

[Piru]

@Gebrochen

I know one can do it on other platforms, but, is it a simple case of right clicking, renaming the volume.(read next sentence first)

Yes. Even easier. For example with Mac OS X you just doubleclick the label and type the new name.

then when you restart the computer, does that OS remember what you had named that usb Stick volume??

There is nothing for the OS to remember. The filesystem has been relabeled, of course the new name will appear. This works with every OS that has USB, massstorage and FAT support.