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AuthorTopic: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.  (Read 7610 times)

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Offline lempkee

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2003, 07:45:47 PM »
redrumloa: was that aimed at me ? (your answer)

os3.5 doesnt have this emu install afaik, i can check ...

cheers
Whats up with all the hate!
 

Offline redrumloa

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Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2003, 07:51:23 PM »
@lempkee

No sorry, that was aimed at seer concerning OS3.9.
Someone has to state the obvious and that someone is me!
 

Offline olegil

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2003, 07:53:34 PM »
Well, I can still honestly say I don't see where he's threatening end users about suing for breach of EULA. Come on, noone would be that stupid.

On the other hand, Genesi are marketing an OS3.9 bundle with no license. How well do you think that would go down with Apple? Must be a reason why Genesi aren't bundling OSX, eh? But AmigaInc aren't as strong as Apple, so who cares if Genesi screw them, right?

If Bill McEwen mentioning the fact that there is such a statement in the EULA is dispicable, I would say Genesi bundling with no license is horrible. No matter if it was paid for or not, they are actively tricking users into breaching an EULA, one that might very well be legally binding in the users home country. Do tell me how this is such a good idea?
 

Offline Belial6

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2003, 09:04:46 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't your PC become a licensed amiga computer if you buy Amiga Forever?  The fact that their is an OS layer between the hardware and AmigaOS shouldn't make a difference.

Thus, any machine running Amiga Forever IS a licensed Amiga computer.
 

Offline Wolfe

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2003, 09:11:43 PM »
An EULA is basically aimed at other companies to protect their product.

EULA has no legs and little if any teeth in a court of law if you "john doe" go to a store and buy a copy, put it on your machine for your own use.

Basically - if they don't print the EULA all over the front of the box and the tape that binds it so "joe smuck" can read it before he purchases it.  Anotherwords has no excuse for not seeing it before purchasing it, the EULA is useless.  Not enforcible in a court of law against an end user - privided you are not pirating etc.

EULA - A Inc vs Genesi could have very sharp teeth depending.

EULA - end user arguments are hot air.   ;-)
Avatar Babe:  Monica Bellucci  -    :love:
 

Offline MarkTime

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2003, 09:17:07 PM »
Let say you do this.

1.) Buy a License to run Mac OS X on Apple Branded hardware for $120
2.) Copy Microsoft Word which you didn't pay for and run it.

Act 2 is piracy, right?

1.) Buy a License to run Mac OS X on Apple Branded hardware for $120
2.) Copy Mac OS X to your Pegasos and run it, though you don't have a license to do so.

Act 2 is still piracy.

It's PIRACY.

In scenario one its easy to understand, cause Microsoft and Apple are different companies.

But just because you bought a license to run Mac OS X on Apple branded hardware from Apple for $120, doesn't mean you paid to run it on your pegasos.

You didn't.

You didn't pay for such a license and you did it anyway.

It's piracy.

added:
----------
Some countries have consumer protection laws, if you buy Mac OS X thinking you could run it on your pegasos, but they failed to tell you its only good on Apple branded hardware, then the contract may not be valid.  You may have the right, in your country, to return the product for a refund.

But in almost no country in the world, does an invalid contract=a valid contract that does what you want.

In other words, you may be entitled to your money back, but you won't be entitled to write up a new contract under your own terms.

Now, with that said, in just a very few countries you have a few extra options, even if the contract says otherwise, but UK and Germany are not on the list of countries that allow you to change the license to run on any machine that you want.

Certainly, Amiga, Inc. and Genesi have American offices anyway, and are under american law for part of their operations...so they'll have to consider EULA's.

 

Offline Lando

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2003, 09:24:17 PM »
Quote

olegil wrote:
Well, I can still honestly say I don't see where he's threatening end users about suing for breach of EULA. Come on, noone would be that stupid.


Well why bother "reminding users" about the terms of the EULA in his statement if they have no intention of enforcing it?

It's just more pathetic posturing in a knee-jerk reaction to Genesi's announcement.

Quote
On the other hand, Genesi are marketing an OS3.9 bundle with no license.


No they aren't.  They paid for all the copies of OS3.9.  They can sell them to whoever they wish, in whatever way they wish.  I can go to vesalia.de right now and order a Pegasos board with a copy of OS3.9.  Are they also despicable?

Quote
Must be a reason why Genesi aren't bundling OSX, eh?


Because more people want AmigaOS?

Quote
But AmigaInc aren't as strong as Apple, so who cares if Genesi screw them, right?


First of all, Amiga gets no money from AmigaOS 3.5 or 3.9.  It is H&P's product and it is up to them to enforce the EULA.  In no way are Amiga Inc being screwed.  If they are to enforce the EULA then everyone using AmigaOS 3.5+ under emulation is breaking the EULA, including people with AmigaOnes running UAE, PC's running UAE, Macs running UAE, and Pegasos's running UAE.

If Genesi were screwing them (which they aren't) you're right, probably nobody would care, considering the number of people Amiga Inc has screwed in recent months / years.

Quote
If Bill McEwen mentioning the fact that there is such a statement in the EULA is dispicable,


I wouldn't say it was despicable.  Just rather desperate, pathetic, petty and irrelevant.  

Quote
I would say Genesi bundling with no license is horrible. No matter if it was paid for or not, they are actively tricking users into breaching an EULA,


Nobody is tricking anyone.

Quote
one that might very well be legally binding in the users home country. Do tell me how this is such a good idea?


Personally I don't think it's a good idea at all.  I don't think anyone using MorphOS would have the slightest interest in running an inferior OS on their machines, and if they did they've probably got a copy of 3.5 or 3.9 left over from their Amiga.  Bundling it is rather pointless.
 

Offline Ni72ous

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2003, 09:29:08 PM »
Quote
1.) Buy a License to run Mac OS X on Apple Branded hardware for $120 2.) Copy Mac OS X to your Pegasos and run it, though you don't have a license to do so. Act 2 is still piracy.

No its not, you have purchased the original cd, its just breaking the eula.
Ni72ous
 

Offline MarkTime

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2003, 09:34:25 PM »
The CD is just media.

It has nothing to do with anything.

The only thing you purchased is a license.

This is another common myth that you brought up.
Maybe it will help you to understand, that losing the original CD does not invalidate your license.

In otherwords, if I make a backup copy of my original CD, and the original CD gets lost or stolen, or just destroyed....I'm not out of luck.

I can continue to use my backup CD, because the original CD has no importance....the fact that I purchased a license and am using the license properly is all thats important.

I think everyone can easily understand how the license is still valid in a case when the original CD is lost.

But when someone has a CD, they somehow believes this gives them a right to write up their own contract and licensing terms.

CD media does not have such magical properties.
 

Offline DethKnight

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2003, 09:36:50 PM »
Quote
1.) Buy a License to run Mac OS X on Apple Branded hardware for $120
2.) Copy Mac OS X to your Pegasos and run it, though you don't have a license to do so.

Act 2 is still piracy.

It's PIRACY.


only depends on where you copied the MacOS X from, was it your own purchased copy or the neighbor's. ?
If it was your own purchased copy, then no, you're just a contract breacher, but if was a copy of the neighbor's it's piracy.
It's probably possible to buy the license without the media, which would be just a CONTRACT
Its possible to buy a disc without the license in pirate circles.

If the CD were just "media", instead of a delivery vehicle
then you could copy/distribute them ad-infinitum with legal impunity.  right?
wanted; NONfunctional A3K keyboard wanted
 

Offline Ni72ous

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2003, 09:38:25 PM »
Quote
The CD is just media.

And the eula is a worthless piece of text.
Ni72ous
 

Offline MarkTime

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2003, 09:39:33 PM »
Quote
And the eula is a worthless piece of text.


a EULA is a valid contract.
My word is not worthless.
 

Offline Lando

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2003, 09:52:34 PM »
Quote

Belial6 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't your PC become a licensed amiga computer if you buy Amiga Forever?  The fact that their is an OS layer between the hardware and AmigaOS shouldn't make a difference.

Thus, any machine running Amiga Forever IS a licensed Amiga computer.


The EULA also prohibits AmigaOS from being installed and used on a computer that didn't have Amiga OS installed on it when you bought it.  

Unless the PC already had AmigaOS installed when you bought it, you're still breaking the EULA.  This also includes AmgaOnes that come pre-installed with Linux.  To install UAE and run OS3.5 or 3.9 would be in breach of the EULA.
 

Offline olegil

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2003, 09:52:49 PM »
You don't get it, do you MarkTime?

Noone is saying anything about _copying_ OSX. You install it on a computer that just not happens to be Apple branded. As an end user here in Norway, if I wanted to do this, there is very little Apple could do, afaik. Because it's very tricky for them to dictate how I must use their product. I paid for the right to USE it, not for the right to use it only ever full moon after having sacrificed a virgin goat. Or would have, had I had any interest in OSX.

But I would not advice bundling OSX with non-Apple hardware even though it was paid for. Because tricking end users into breaking a contract is not a good idea.

Same with Genesi/OS3.9. They don't claim to have an official license to bundle this.

@All:
I remember a few weeks ago there was all sorts of #### stirred up about Eyetech shipping UAE and Magic Packs with AmigaOnes. How can that be bad while this is good, btw?

Btw: I admit to running OS3.5 on non-Amiga branded hardware. But as it came with kickstart 3.1 in ROM I don't think I'm really up #### creek, at least not without a ladder or other means of getting down :-P
 

Offline MarkTime

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2003, 10:00:04 PM »
@olegil

I don't understand why you don't like the word 'copy'...all installations involve copying..otherwise its not installed and just exists on the CD.

I will continue to use the word copy because it is the correct word to use, the word copy, btw, doesn't imply anything wrong....

What I am saying is wrong, has always been the breaking of the EULA by breaking the terms of the license...which in UK, Germany, and USA is illegal.

But, as far as Norway goes, you can be the expert on Norway, I don't have the time to look up Norway, I have nothing against Norway, but there is only so much I can do to research this issue.

BTW, do you really want to talk about 'getting it'?

I mean I get it.  People say, BUT WHAT IF I WASN'T INFORMED BY THE CENTRE?

What if what?  I mean thats a red herring, the people on this board fully well know the Apple EULA by now....or What if I am allowed to break a contract in my country...so what, do only laws govern your values, or is your word and integrity important on a level above the law?

What if this, what if that...its all red herrings....

Anyway, I don't care so much about Apple.

I discuss Apple endlessly, because we don't love Apple so much, and its easier to discuss on an acadmic level.

The real question here, is as I said before...what do we make of the AMIGA eula, to only run on AMIGA branded hardware...

and its totally funny, watching the many pro-Amiga fans being anti-EULA.