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Offline GulliverTopic starter

Re: AmigaOS 3.9 Boing Bag #3
« Reply #104 from previous page: December 23, 2009, 02:28:03 AM »
Give me 10 minutes and consider it done!
 

Offline matthey

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Re: AmigaOS 3.9 Boing Bag #3
« Reply #105 on: December 23, 2009, 03:05:53 AM »
Quote from: AmiKit;534848
@Gulliver
You simply cannot re-distribute original or patched AmigaOS files, no matter what you write into your readme. Sorry, that's a fact. In addition I doubt you can use the name "Boing Bag" and pretend it's official one. It's not. (Btw. the previous official Boing Bags contain full patched system files just because they were created and distributed by the original Amiga OS license owner - which you are not.)


Well, they did the impossible then ;). Oh, Did you mean legally? Yea, It would probably be better to use the .pch method for OS modules. An early disassembled exec is on Aminet and Piru's exec.library contains the actual exec.librarys but that's all grey area. There is actually little chance of pirating here as the updates in BB3 are not very useful without AmigaOS 3.9. I would think that would be good enough but it would be better to get permission from Hyperion or Amiga Inc to distribute this way. Maybe permission could be obtained to release other semi-official updates as well. Thomas Richter has some updates ready to go if he had permission...

http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=6¬e=13805&x=1

Maybe we could start an e-mail petition. People who want to see an update would send Gulliver an e-mail with their name and e-mail address and those would be collected and sent to Hyperion and Amiga Inc. with a request.

Quote from: AmiKit

The only legal solution for this unofficial Boing Bag, besides renaming the package, is to include patch data (.pch files) instead of full and patched AmigaOS files. The full files can be created on user's computer - by an installer. It should be easy to write one.


One advantage to the .pch method is a much smaller BB3. The installation would become slower with more problems though.
 

Offline Minuous

Re: AmigaOS 3.9 Boing Bag #3
« Reply #106 on: December 23, 2009, 03:31:48 AM »
OK, I have released a 2nd beta, which fixes some bugs that have been reported here and at EAB. Now in expert mode it also gives you more control over which keymaps, etc. to update.
 

Offline Bamiga2002

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Re: AmigaOS 3.9 Boing Bag #3
« Reply #107 on: December 23, 2009, 05:33:40 AM »
Would WBCtrl be a nice addition? Though it says "controls undocumentated wb3.5 features" but does wb3.9 cover these undocumented features already?
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Offline amigadave

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Re: AmigaOS 3.9 Boing Bag #3
« Reply #108 on: December 23, 2009, 05:49:14 AM »
Quote from: AmiKit;534848
@Gulliver

First of all, many thanks for your effort!

You simply cannot re-distribute original or patched AmigaOS files, no matter what you write into your readme. Sorry, that's a fact. In addition I doubt you can use the name "Boing Bag" and pretend it's official one. It's not. (Btw. the previous official Boing Bags contain full patched system files just because they were created and distributed by the original Amiga OS license owner - which you are not.)

The only legal solution for this unofficial Boing Bag, besides renaming the package, is to include patch data (.pch files) instead of full and patched AmigaOS files. The full files can be created on user's computer - by an installer. It should be easy to write one.

@AmiKit,  You know how much I appreciate your work, have supported it in the past and idolize what you have been able to create and the fact that you still give it away free, but I would have to disagree with you on the use of the words "Boing Bag", unless the previous or current Amiga IP owners have also copyrighted those words (which maybe they did and I just was too lazy to go look before writing this message).  The other parts of your message must be considered by everyone working on the project.

It really would be a shame if ANYONE were to object to this effort and try to stop it.  If Hyperion has the rights to AmigaOS, all versions of it, then I think it would be terribly wrong and stupid of them to try to stop the community from putting together an effort like this one as it really does not hurt anyone.  To my knowledge, the authors of this effort are not promoting any kind of piracy, they have put checks in place so it cannot be installed without BoingBag2 being installed first, which requires the installer to have a (hopefully legal) copy of the OS3.9 CD.

I think every effort to keep this work on the "Unofficial Boing Bag 3" legal and out of trouble with any of the authors of the separate files needed is being made.

My question is why has something like this not been done before now?  It was greatly needed and certainly very appreciated.  There are far too many returning Amiga users that do not know this information, and some Amiga users that never left, but did not keep up with updating their Amigas for one reason or another that can now update them to a more modern state with the help of this initiative.  I hope this work expands even further with many people helping their fellow Amiga users to fine tune their Amigas to their fullest potential.  This has always been one of the strengths of the Amiga community.

Edit:  My problem with the RAM-Handler error did disappear after a cold boot, so if you haven't already added a note to include a cold boot after using the Unofficial Boing Bag 3 install script, you might want to add such a note.  Now I am off to the other thread that describes which files to add/alter/or patch to create the fastest and most stable of  AGA OS3.9 Amigas.  Thanks again for this thread and all the work done to create the "Unofficial Boing Bag 3" project.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 05:59:21 AM by amigadave »
How are you helping the Amiga community? :)
 

Offline PulsatingQuasar

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Re: AmigaOS 3.9 Boing Bag #3
« Reply #109 on: December 23, 2009, 08:34:58 AM »
Indeed we must keep this effort going. The 68k Amiga stuff isn't worth a damn to anyone anymore but the few that have the Amiga hobby. If there is anyone that is so petty that he or she has to try to stop this effort I would like them to go away from the Amiga scene and never come back( softly put because what I actually want to say is much much harsher).

I really can't help but feel that our small user base is still overrun with absolute morrons when it comes to the worth of the 68k stuff. There isn't any. From the ROM's to the OS to the software. There is nothing of value in it anymore.

If we can have a third Boing Bag that gathers all the patches and updates and can roll them out in one go then that is good news for everyone that installs Amiga OS 3.9.
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Offline AmiKit

Re: AmigaOS 3.9 Boing Bag #3
« Reply #110 on: December 23, 2009, 09:46:09 AM »
Quote from: arnljot;534857
I think we should discuss how much work it is to have the patch contain patches and have the installer do the patching, or have Hyperion sanction this effort

It's matter of few more lines in installer that would do all the patching on user's computer. Like I said, it's easy and worth to write such an installer and make the package 100% legal and bulletproof (providing all the software in the package is included properly - according to each program's readme and license OR with specific permission for this purpose).

This way the Unofficial Boing Bag can be promoted everywhere, on OSNews and other servers, distributed on Amiga Future CD, etc. Wouldn't it be great?

Offline cha05e90

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Re: AmigaOS 3.9 Boing Bag #3
« Reply #111 on: December 23, 2009, 12:09:04 PM »
Quote from: PulsatingQuasar;534885
I really can't help but feel that our small user base is still overrun with absolute morrons when it comes to the worth of the 68k stuff. There isn't any. From the ROM's to the OS to the software. There is nothing of value in it anymore.

Nobody wants to stop the really appreciated effort to build a nice installing "BoingBag3", BUT - to use your own words - the community is still overrun by morons who consider everything 68k related is worthless which leads to their conclusion that everything should be for free and copyright is only a word. It is still possible to make a "bulletproof" update of OS3.9 - see AmiKit's post #111.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 12:10:34 PM by cha05e90 »
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Offline quenthal

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Re: AmigaOS 3.9 Boing Bag #3
« Reply #112 on: December 23, 2009, 12:33:15 PM »
Quote from: AmiKit;534889
It's matter of few more lines in installer that would do all the patching on user's computer. Like I said, it's easy and worth to write such an installer and make the package 100% legal and bulletproof (providing all the software in the package is included properly - according to each program's readme and license OR with specific permission for this purpose).

This way the Unofficial Boing Bag can be promoted everywhere, on OSNews and other servers, distributed on Amiga Future CD, etc. Wouldn't it be great?

One vote for this - hopefully Thomas Richter can publish his patches & updates this way too, instead of waiting.. ;-)

Of course full files would be nice, but I don't think that is absolutely necessary. Infact I don't want to see possible negative attitude from copyright owners to let down those creating this excellent package. This has happened way too often. So if there is already legal way, and all it takes is somewhat more complex installer-script, I'd say it's easy choice.
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Offline kolla

Re: AmigaOS 3.9 Boing Bag #3
« Reply #113 on: December 23, 2009, 12:48:19 PM »
With the entire legal status of OS 3.9 up in the blue, releasing this BoingBag 3 with full binaries and all is a nice experiment. Who, if any, will have legal grounds to complain? :-)
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Offline dannyp1

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Re: AmigaOS 3.9 Boing Bag #3
« Reply #114 on: December 23, 2009, 02:45:35 PM »
I keep hearing how easy it is to do this installer.  If this is so easy why hasn't it already been done?  Amikit has been saying on here for years that he would do it and never has.  Now that someone else is trying he's back with how easy it is.  If this is so easy, go make a "bullet proof" BB3 yourself and I'm sure Gulliver will gladly make this one dissapear.  Gulliver isn't doing this for glory or fame.  He's doing it because of his love of the Amiga.  Which brings up one of the biggest problems with the Amiga scene these days.  There are too many people calling the shots who haven't even turned on an Amiga in years.
 

Offline cha05e90

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Re: AmigaOS 3.9 Boing Bag #3
« Reply #115 on: December 23, 2009, 02:49:47 PM »
Quote from: quenthal;534903
One vote for this - hopefully Thomas Richter can publish his patches & updates this way too, instead of waiting.. ;-)

Of course full files would be nice, but I don't think that is absolutely necessary. Infact I don't want to see possible negative attitude from copyright owners to let down those creating this excellent package. This has happened way too often. So if there is already legal way, and all it takes is somewhat more complex installer-script, I'd say it's easy choice.


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Offline GulliverTopic starter

Re: AmigaOS 3.9 Boing Bag #3
« Reply #116 on: December 23, 2009, 03:09:30 PM »
Okay add my vote too - hopefully Thomas Richter can publish his patches & updates this way too, instead of waiting.. ;-)

@kolla
I agree with you. As said before there is a user trying to contact Amiga Inc. regarding OS 3.9, but should he try to contact Hyperion too? And what about Haage & Partner?
By the way Amiga Inc. is still unreachable by email. Can anyone help?

Has anyone got Thomas Richter email?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 03:14:29 PM by Gulliver »
 

Offline AmiKit

Re: AmigaOS 3.9 Boing Bag #3
« Reply #117 on: December 23, 2009, 03:14:33 PM »
Quote from: dannyp1;534915
I keep hearing how easy it is to do this installer.  If this is so easy why hasn't it already been done?  Amikit has been saying on here for years that he would do it and never has.  Now that someone else is trying he's back with how easy it is.  If this is so easy, go make a "bullet proof" BB3 yourself and I'm sure Gulliver will gladly make this one dissapear.  Gulliver isn't doing this for glory or fame.  He's doing it because of his love of the Amiga.  Which brings up one of the biggest problems with the Amiga scene these days.  There are too many people calling the shots who haven't even turned on an Amiga in years.
dannyp, please, I've done it already. Look at the "Install Patches" inside AmiKit package (also attached here). If you want it for real Amiga too, you can modify it yourself as well, the working example is there (just ignore the "second run", "third run" etc. parts. They are there to install new patches if the script was already used before).
With regards to BB3 legal status, I am just pointing out the objective facts. If you have problem with that, don't blame me. In addition I am showing a real solution how to make the package legal and thus worldwide available. What more do you want me to do and why?

Quote from: Gulliver;534918
As said before there is a user trying to contact Amiga Inc. regarding OS 3.9, but should he try to contact Hyperion too? And what about Haage & Partner?
By the way Amiga Inc. is still unreachable by email. Can anyone help?

Don't waste your time contacting AInc or Haage.. I know what I am talking about. Anyway, if .pch solution is used, contacting them is not necessary at all.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 04:51:41 PM by AmiKit »
 

Offline kolla

Re: AmigaOS 3.9 Boing Bag #3
« Reply #118 on: December 23, 2009, 05:02:07 PM »
Quote from: AmiKit;534919
Don't waste your time contacting AInc or Haage.. I know what I am talking about. Anyway, if .pch solution is used, contacting them is not necessary at all.


I think that is *exactly* why one should do it the "illegal" way, in an attempt to provoke a reaction. And if there is no reaction, that's good too :)

If the copyright holders dont care, there's really no reason others must care either.
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Offline dannyp1

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Re: AmigaOS 3.9 Boing Bag #3
« Reply #119 on: December 23, 2009, 05:05:41 PM »
I will just repeat what I already said.  If making a BB3 is so easy, why is this the first real effort that has been made to do it.  People have been pleading for years to get this done and now that someone is actually making it happen, all the naysayers are coming out of the woodwork.  This doesn't need to be "bullet proof".  It Needs to get into the hands of Amiga users who actually still use their Amiga's.  Please don't tell me how easy this is to do, show me.