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Author Topic: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere  (Read 8409 times)

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Offline TrevTopic starter

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #29 from previous page: March 08, 2008, 07:45:15 PM »
@Hittig

Quote
It's where AmigaOS would have been with constant development since 1992.


Sort of. Apple said, "Frak. We can't turn OS 9 into a preemptively multitasking operating system. Hey, Steve. Didn't we buy NeXT from you? How did you guys do it there?" Or something like that.

BeOS was an excellent operating system, already years ahead of Amiga OS, running on a similar platform, and it died. There just isn't enough room in the market for that many competing consumer desktop operating systems.
 

Offline adolescent

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2008, 09:51:08 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:

The HTC Kaiser is the size of a small family car and the aesthetics of a particularly ugly coldwar Russian tank...


Sure, the device has to be bigger to fit the "real" GPS, usable camera, 3G capability, SD slot, and full qwerty keyboard.  Add these to the iPhone and it will be a couple of mm bigger also.  I'll take a slightly larger package to save >$300 and have a more functional device.
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline persia

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2008, 10:17:49 PM »
All of the late '80s OSs were not designed to do what we need in a modern OS, they all realised it.  Had the company that made Amiga survived they would have had to, at one point, throw out Amiga DOS and start again.  Because the Amiga was orphaned it is a living fossil, a picture of where OSs used to be.

But there was no winning strategy, had the owners of Amiga spent their money on development instead of beer and chips it would have still ended the same.  Likewise there's no path for Amiga to join Apple and Microsoft either, there's just no money and no will to do so and no company to do it if there was.

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Offline bloodline

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2008, 10:47:55 PM »
Quote

persia wrote:
All of the late '80s OSs were not designed to do what we need in a modern OS, they all realised it.  Had the company that made Amiga survived they would have had to, at one point, throw out Amiga DOS and start again.  Because the Amiga was orphaned it is a living fossil, a picture of where OSs used to be.


So true... Windows 3.1, MacOS 7.x, TOS and AmigaOS were all built for a different generation of machines... much like MSDOS and CP-M were for the generation before... Also there were transition Operating systems, like Win95 and MacOS 9.x...

AmigaOS was actually better positioned than these other OSes... Reading the RKM shows that the plan was there to add memory protection, but developers didn't seem to care too much about that and the 68k hardware was lacking an MMU unlike the equivalent intel hardware... Give the AmigaOS a real security based file system and Memory protection it might have had a chance... but still without major reworking it would have been behind WinNT and MacOSX...

Quote

But there was no winning strategy, had the owners of Amiga spent their money on development instead of beer and chips it would have still ended the same.  Likewise there's no path for Amiga to join Apple and Microsoft either, there's just no money and no will to do so and no company to do it if there was.



True...

Offline bloodline

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2008, 10:53:47 PM »
Quote

adolescent wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:

The HTC Kaiser is the size of a small family car and the aesthetics of a particularly ugly coldwar Russian tank...


Sure, the device has to be bigger to fit the "real" GPS, usable camera, 3G capability, SD slot, and full qwerty keyboard.  Add these to the iPhone and it will be a couple of mm bigger also.  I'll take a slightly larger package to save >$300 and have a more functional device.


Every engineering solution is compromise... Apple choose to compromise the technical in order to make sure that the human experience is not compromised. Since I have got to an age and situation where I need technology to serve me rather than for me to mess around with some tech toy, I need the human experience to be better, than worrying about if I have a 2mp or 3mp camera...

Offline weirdami

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2008, 12:10:36 AM »
If people are still clamoring to buy them, then they are under priced.

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Offline AmigaHeretic

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2008, 12:53:52 AM »
Quote
On the contrary, I think that Apple's products are ideal for certain groups of people, and Mac OS X is by far the best overall operating system out there for a wide range of people.


True, but I'm starting to think it's not fair that they tie it to "their" hardware.

I mean at some point Apple will get large enough that they will not be allowed to tie their software to only their specific hardware... like MS can't (can you imagine if Vista was only sold on MS hardware!! ;-) ).  Apple may not be that size yet, but what size do they have to get??

It seems like a double edge sword.  MS gets blamed for being huge and being a monopoly and Apple gets the ohs and ahs for being the little guy, but it's sort of Apple's choice at this point.  If OSX was made available like Vista, OSX would have a lot more market share.  Maybe not more money though ;-) So is that fair?

Can MS be a monopoly if we a 2nd huge OS company that could be almost as huge, but chooses not to be so they can make more money on hardware even though it limits them to smaller percent of the market?  
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Offline DonnyEMU

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2008, 01:35:53 AM »
Can you imagine if Vista was on Microsoft only hardware, no device driver complaints, few system configurations to support. I would vigorously debate Microsoft's monopoly status people do have other choices than Microsoft, they choose however to buy the Microsoft software with their hardware.

You can buy a Linux or Apple machine with software just as easily today. Linux machines are now sold at Walmart for heaven sake.

If OSX was sold separately it would need to support as many chipsets and generic hardware situations as Vista has to today.. Probably making it the target of many hackers and it probably would have just as many issues as Vista does..

Apple owns (last I checked) a 9% share of the entire hardware market and that hasn't changed a lot in the last 4 years.. The number of Intel Mac owners who have bought Vista for their machines also from what I hear is extraordinarily high because even if they like OSX better they find themselves needing it for compatibility with everyone else..

As far as the iPhone goes, it was smart thinking for Apple to put a video decoder chip in the hardware. I hope they open that access up for others to take advantage of..
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Offline AmigaHeretic

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2008, 01:50:12 AM »
Exactly, if MS had their own hardware like Apple (or like Amiga was trying to do with A1 and license specific hardware) then their wouldn't be all the driver issues, things would probably work a lot better.

And if you say is right, 9%, than that is kinda what I mean with my other point.  OSX is really probably more likey to have 40%-50% if Apple wanted it to and didn't tie to hardware.

I'm just saying if things were equal and either Windows was on only it's own hardware like OSX

or

Both were open to run an any hardware like Windows does, then they would have a lot more equal market share...

so who is really keeping MS the monoply??  Is it Apple?  I Apple choosing to stay small so they can KEEP the hardware market too to make more money?  They get software AND hardware now.  If they get too big (sure they are maybe a long way off now but how long?), then eventually they will be anti-trust issues for them to and they will be forced to open up.  

Is Apple keeping OSX down?
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Offline TrevTopic starter

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2008, 08:48:57 AM »
Apple is a portable media and content delivery company. That whole Mac thing is just a sideline. ;-)
 

Offline adolescent

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2008, 04:03:05 PM »
Quote

Hattig wrote:
Compared to the main competition - Windows - there's no competition. Mac OS X is head and shoulders above,
technically.


Ok, lets talk "technically".  OS 10 is head and shoulders above in:

Running on proprietary Apple hardware?  Yes.
Running Mac specific software? Yes.
Ummm, that's all I can think of.

Can you explain how else it's technically superior?  And, while you're at it explain why you have to use boot camp to run XP or Vista to run applications, games, etc.
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2008, 04:14:25 PM »
Quote

adolescent wrote:
Quote

Hattig wrote:
Compared to the main competition - Windows - there's no competition. Mac OS X is head and shoulders above,
technically.


Ok, lets talk "technically".  OS 10 is head and shoulders above in:

Running on proprietary Apple hardware?  Yes.
Running Mac specific software? Yes.
Ummm, that's all I can think of.

Can you explain how else it's technically superior?  And, while you're at it explain why you have to use boot camp to run XP or Vista to run applications, games, etc.


For mission critical apps like my live music work MacOS X has been a dream come true! The audio subsystem suffers less latency than windows even with ASIO and is far more stable. Moving to the Mac OSX platform meant I run more exotic set ups live as well as not having the damn thing crash on me after 3 songs...

OSX also seems to give priority to the audio system, as if I do something stupid that pushes CPU to 200% the audio units keep functioning without stutter and glitches...

There are probably other things for other people but that is the most important for me... The fact that everything just works is nice too... I can buy any peice of exotic audio hardware plug it in and go, no messing around with drivers and reboots...

Offline adolescent

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2008, 04:37:35 PM »
@Bloodline

How about a "real" technical issue that can be backed up with fact, not just your subjective opinion.  Latency and "crash on me after 3 songs" sounds like a compatibility issue or operator error.  Even OS 10 isn't crash proof, and can have driver issues.
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2008, 06:03:21 PM »
Quote

adolescent wrote:
@Bloodline

How about a "real" technical issue that can be backed up with fact, not just your subjective opinion.  Latency and "crash on me after 3 songs" sounds like a compatibility issue or operator error.  Even OS 10 isn't crash proof, and can have driver issues.



It's not my fault if you don't consider mission critical reliability and low latency audio as important to you... They happen to be the most important aspects of an operating system for my needs, and thus are the issues I focus upon... These are real technical issues, since WindowsXP (I have no idea about Window Vist since I've never used it) is unable to perform reliably in these areas. Linux simply lacks the software, so I am unable to know exactly how that would perform.

There is a reason why 99% of all professional musicians use MacOSX. When I used to gig in the days just after my Amiga, I had no choice but to use a Windows based laptop for live work... it was terrible. I suffered many problems and at least one crash or lock up per gig... I eventually bit the bullet and bought an over priced under powered PowerBook G4 running OSX 10.4... despite its limited power, it never once gave out on me during a gig or during rehearsals... It was a dream come true, I could stop worrying about the damn computer and focus on the music.

Since I never have to install any drivers on the Mac... All professional audio hardware comes as Core Audio compliant,  I've never any driver issues...

-Edit-
My friends and I also like the MacOS for it's security... Since by default everything runs as the logged in user rather than root as in Windows, it's just safer...

Offline TrevTopic starter

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2008, 07:35:08 PM »
Quote
Since by default everything runs as the logged in user rather than root as in Windows, it's just safer


That's not required, but it's something Microsoft hasn't gone out of their way to fix. I believe Vista is attempting to make headway here, but people have mostly complained about how annoying it is--the same way it's annoying to use keys to unlock your house and start your car and pin to access your bank account. Can't please everyone, I guess. ;-)

Windows can be quite stable for real-time application use, including audio and video, but you're not going to get that kind of stability with off the shelf parts. You'd have to buy your system from a hardware/sofware ISV that specializes in those configurations.

I made the switch, too, although Yamaha (my primary keyboard/workstation is a Motif ES8) is a little slow in updating their Mac software. I like the Yamaha keys (which was the deciding factor at the time), but the Motif is a {bleep} to use. Wish I'd bought a Korg. It's moot right now, though. My music room is doubling as storage, so I can't actually get to any of it. :-P (And there's a piano and a couple guitars in the living room, so I'm good to go if I want to embarrass myself in front of my friends.)
 

Offline adolescent

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2008, 11:04:15 PM »
@bloodline

That's fine that you consider the audio system mission critical for your work.  What I am looking for is an objective reason that MacOSX is technically better than Windows XP/Vista.  You said latency which is subjective, and crashes which sound like operator error, a bad computer, or just FUD (every OS can crash..).  If you had proof that the same audio hardware on like systems, one running Windows and one running OSX, ran differently then I might take it a bit more serious.  The "99% of all professional musicians use MacOSX" falls in the same category.   It sounds too made up to be true.  Care to site a source?

Regarding your security comment, you don't really know Windows.  Windows 9x had a single user security model.  NT and later all have separate roles for user and administrator.  In the end, if the operator chooses to run as root they can do so just like they can in OSX.  Vista has the UAC which is similar to the OSX prompt when root access is required.

 
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(