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Offline csirac_

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Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #59 from previous page: June 16, 2003, 04:09:04 PM »
@Bloodline:

Quote
X Crashes non stop for me... Probably due to some dodgy GFX drivers more than X's fault... but once X goes it can take the Keyboard with it and that's it no more Linux session... Reboot time.


Then you need to run sshd ;) Saved my skin more than once.

I've only really crashed X while trying to run some dodgy svga game or other as root... or when I upgraded X right from under it, while it was running... etc. I think VMWare crashed it once, but can't be sure. I found it fairly stable, considering I have to use Linux 2.4.21-rc2-ac2 just to have my KT400 chipset/ 8x AGP + Radeon 9000 work! BTW Later kernel revisions break my OpenGL apps - they slow down to 1fps (but still seem to be hardware rendered? Software mode works faster?) :/

And a comment about AROS: I like! I've talked to others complaining that the only experimental OSS OS projects out there are just boot loaders or are based on a hacked linux or BSD kernel, well now they have AROS to contend with ;)

This holidays I'm going to sit down and play with the AROS code. Prior experience? I wrote a small RTOS for the M68HC912B32 ('HC12) in about 2KiB of FLASH; it had such amazing features as hybrid rate monotonic/round robin scheduling, malloc(), free(), and printf() :P All my own code of course, none of this libc/newlib stuff.. ;)

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Offline iCreate

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Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #60 on: June 16, 2003, 04:57:30 PM »
Looking at it purely from a business standpoint it may not make much sense at all.  No doubt the first to actually bring back the Amiga will make some money at first, but the point of saturation I believe will be reached rather quickly as there may not be much of a market selling only to long time Amiga users to cover the development costs of bringing the product to market.
As Linux has proven, the alternative OS market is one that over time appears to be a market worthwhile going after.   I believe this is where ultimately OS4 and MorphOS will be judged successful or not.  And where there will be money to be made.  
 
 

Offline cecilia

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Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #61 on: June 16, 2003, 05:53:06 PM »
the reason there are alternatives to windoze is simply because people WANT and NEED them. some people are simply not happy with the utter dumbness of windows.

it annoys me. I love AfterEffects and i'm glad i can do that, but i would prefer another OS. i'm spoilt. the end!

(ps, my linux never crashes. there's something to be said about nerds :-D )
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Offline Lwanmtr

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Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #62 on: June 16, 2003, 07:48:39 PM »
Because, quite simply..Amiga has always been the best, and it still can do things that pc's and macs cannot.

I not only use a 4000t based flyer, but also a Dual 1ghz Mac, and I can do easier editing on it..and I can do live video switching..unlike Mac and premiere.
 

Offline DavidF215

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Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #63 on: June 16, 2003, 09:39:25 PM »
Quote

Lwanmtr wrote:
I not only use a 4000t based flyer, but also a Dual 1ghz Mac, and I can do easier editing on it..and I can do live video switching..unlike Mac and premiere.


A Dual 1ghz Mac can't do live editing? I thought that it could, but I'm not into video editting yet either. Is there an extra hardware feature that could do live editting? Quite surprising if it can't.
AmigaOS enthusiast since 1993.
 

Offline Cymric

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Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #64 on: June 16, 2003, 11:11:25 PM »
@Varthall:

Your reply is too long for me to quote in full, so I'll just make do 'blindly', I hope you don't mind.

As for the window manager thing: it's a bit complex as there is a distinction between window managers and toolkits. Window managers deal with the behaviour of the entire window, while toolkits deal with the contents of the window. The two are separate entities. While there is a certain standard a window manager has to conform to, this does not apply to the toolkits. Programs developed for one toolkit are not source-code compatible with another toolkit, but should run with any window manager. Most likely, you get the best look-and-feel if you use the toolkit's preferred manager, though. So, there's two issues: window-related actions are standardised, but things like buttons, menus, gadgets and input boxes are not. And yes, that is a big shame---for consistency it should be a toolkit or several which are so close to one another the normal user doesn't see the difference.

As for the floppies: well, this is Linux (or Unix, for that matter, as all Unices do it like this). You get used to it :-). In any case, I find your verification step rather cumbersome---why do you do that? I trust my floppy drives to write out things correctly.

Finally, regarding the crashing of Linux: what you describe is not an actual crash of Linux, where the kernel blurts out a 'kernel panic' and dumps the CPU state onto your screen. Yes, you can accidentally cause an error in a configuration file causing severe problems during the boot sequence. Rather like making a typo very early on in s:startup-sequence. (You can always recover the system with a rescue disk, a reinstallation of the OS is never necessary.) Once the system is up and running, it is solid as a rock, however. Something which can not be said for Amigas, I'm afraid, although I hear that OS4.0 is decidedly better at trapping and catching program errors without bringing down the entire system.
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Offline SHADES

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Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #65 on: June 16, 2003, 11:25:52 PM »
I dissagree slightly with the Linux startup Vs AMIGA startup.
I use both Linux Win and AMIGA and I have never need a bootdisk to recover an AMIGA from a startup-sequence mistype.
A Ctrl c or Ctrl x always got me out of trouble in an AMIGA and I could load up a text editior and fix whatever typo I had made, BEFORE the OS had finished loading it's libraries needed to display even the workbench screen. Once I had corrected the typo, I could then re issue a run of the startup-sequence and finish booting on the same Boot. there wasn't even a need for a reset of the PC (personal Computer) AMiga OS is something to behold. all in a 512k ROM. :)
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Offline JustDan

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Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #66 on: June 30, 2003, 06:18:13 AM »
If Amiga technology were to fully use the latest chips, busses, and memory, it would be so far superior to other machines that their creators would weep and gnash their teeth.
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Offline JustDan

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Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #67 on: June 30, 2003, 06:19:47 AM »
In response to the Apple-Users-Suck rant:
And the fact that know-nothings can use this machine so productively is considered a bad thing?
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Offline MagicSN

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Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #68 on: June 30, 2003, 07:00:35 AM »
Why revive Amiga ?

To revive something it would need to be dead.

Many people never stopped using AmigasOS as their
main operating system.

It is not about reviving at all, but as to giving it a highly
needed update to be "back in business" as 68k is really outdated these days.

Steffen Haeuser
 

Offline dammy

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Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #69 on: June 30, 2003, 07:45:28 AM »
by MagicSN on 2003/6/30 2:00:35

Quote
Many people never stopped using AmigasOS as their
main operating system.


Just because a few people can cope with AOS in today's network, that doesn't mean it's significant enough to build a future on. Back during the Amiga's Golden Era, it was easy to be different OS/platform in the computer market.  Today, forget about it, as the major OSs out there have most niche markets  were long ago covered.    What both OS4 and MOS has to do is find some killer app and exploit it.  Failing that, it's going to be a short year for atleast one comapny.

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Offline Varthall

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Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #70 on: June 30, 2003, 05:56:34 PM »
Quote

Cymric wrote:
@Varthall:
As for the window manager thing: it's a bit complex as there is a distinction between window managers and toolkits. Window managers deal with the behaviour of the entire window, while toolkits deal with the contents of the window. The two are separate entities. While there is a certain standard a window manager has to conform to, this does not apply to the toolkits. Programs developed for one toolkit are not source-code compatible with another toolkit, but should run with any window manager. Most likely, you get the best look-and-feel if you use the toolkit's preferred manager, though. So, there's two issues: window-related actions are standardised, but things like buttons, menus, gadgets and input boxes are not. And yes, that is a big shame---for consistency it should be a toolkit or several which are so close to one another the normal user doesn't see the difference.

Thanks for the explanation. So, also on Amiga we could say we have different "toolkits", like Mui, Reaction and Gadtools, so we have similar problems of consistency between interfaces. Well, maybe this will be a matter of past as os4.0 uses Reaction as standard. At least we have just one window manager :-)

Quote

As for the floppies: well, this is Linux (or Unix, for that matter, as all Unices do it like this). You get used to it :-). In any case, I find your verification step rather cumbersome---why do you do that? I trust my floppy drives to write out things correctly.

I trust my drives too, the floppies are the ones I don't trust. About half of all my floppies has bad blocks, which is not surprising as the last batch of floppies I bought are well over two years old.

Quote

Finally, regarding the crashing of Linux: what you describe is not an actual crash of Linux, where the kernel blurts out a 'kernel panic' and dumps the CPU state onto your screen.

Well, so I guess that it was just the x server that crashed.

Quote

 Yes, you can accidentally cause an error in a configuration file causing severe problems during the boot sequence. Rather like making a typo very early on in s:startup-sequence. (You can always recover the system with a rescue disk, a reinstallation of the OS is never necessary.)

At least I know that at boot time the only configuration files read are the startup-sequence and user-sequence, so if something is going wrong I know where to take a look. I've the feeling that on Linux the configuration files used during boot are many and cluttered in many directories.

Quote

Once the system is up and running, it is solid as a rock, however. Something which can not be said for Amigas, I'm afraid, although I hear that OS4.0 is decidedly better at trapping and catching program errors without bringing down the entire system.

That's sadly true. However I was happy to discover lately that at least the lighter gurus could be recovered by MCP with the "Jump RTS" fuction.
Very handy for AWeb crashes :-)

Varthall
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Offline alphonsus

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Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #71 on: June 30, 2003, 09:30:52 PM »
Simply because you can do what you want with it. You're not tied to MS, you haven't got the learning curve of linux and it isn't the kludgy MacOS on linux of OS-X
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Offline Athlon

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Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #72 on: August 09, 2003, 07:48:37 AM »
Because, quite simply..Amiga has always been the best, and it still can do things that pc's and macs cannot. Window's, Mac's don;t cut it
 

Offline Wolfe

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Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #73 on: August 09, 2003, 09:09:21 AM »
IMO  -  If you have to ask, you have been using a PC for to long.   :-D

M$ Borg - you have been assimilated :-o.  Pray for salvation :roll:.  Go on a PC fast for a month :boohoo:.  Save your Amiga soul :crazy: !   :lol:  :roflmao:  

:idea:  Amiga Doctor says:  Play 2 classic amiga games a night for two weeks.  Investigate the structure of the OS and write an essay.  Create an animation depicting the distruction of M$.  Take 2 aspirin and call back in a month.  :-D  
 (Or forever be a M$ Kronnie) :-?  :-P          
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Offline HyperionMP

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Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #74 on: August 09, 2003, 10:20:37 AM »
AmigaOS = extremely low latency, small memory and performance footprint.

Which is why we are seeing intrest in it from companies active in these markets.