Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Why revive Amiga?  (Read 17907 times)

Description:

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline DavidF215

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 182
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • Show only replies by DavidF215
    • Cross Timbers Haven
Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #44 from previous page: June 11, 2003, 06:28:58 AM »
Speed, easy to use, just works. I really like the speed of the Amiga GUI and how it works. The closest to its speed are BeOS, QNX, and maybe MacOS X. Windows XP isn't quite as fast, but XP is faster than Linux on my Athlon 1900. IMO Linux is more bloated than XP, but that's for another forum. Amiga has a fast, smooth GUI. Amiga is simple enough for the technically challenged yet powerful enough for many power users. I'm getting to the point in dealing with computers (been with it since the Atari 2600/Intellivision) that I want something that is quick, is responsive, is simple to use, and is powerful enough to do whatever I want. Some Amiga programs may cause software failures, but at least a reboot is only 6 seconds compared to 30 seconds with XP, 60+ seconds on Linux. BeOS, which I use mostly for Internet and Email because my A1200 is not yet connected to my LAN, boots in about 7 seconds. The days when computers take more than 10 seconds to boot are over; this is the 21st century. In my technical support experience, Companies lose more money on employees having to wait long periods of time for their systems to reboot after a system crash than (no offense) workers who take many smoke breaks. My $0.02.

And one more thing. Amiga isn't dead nor is it rising from the grave. The Amiga was on temporary leave of absence.  :-)
AmigaOS enthusiast since 1993.
 

Offline YttriumOx

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 103
    • Show only replies by YttriumOx
Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #45 on: June 11, 2003, 10:53:40 AM »
Quote
DavidF215 wrote:
...60+ seconds on Linux...

Really?  On the Athlon 1900 you mention?  What ARE you doing to the poor thing?  From the time I press the power switch on my AmigaOne G3@800Mhz to the time I see gdm prompting me to log in is about 15 to 20 seconds tops.  Compared to the pitiful 3 and a half minutes my 1.2GHz PIII with Win2k server manages (they're both running pretty much identical services since I recently migrated my users from the Win box to the Linux box - although the Winbox is of course running a whole lot of services I don't want as well - such is the nature of the beast)
My old A4000 used to talke about 40 seconds to a minute to boot... but I was torturing the poor thing pretty severely in startup...
Bring on AOS4! :)

Regards,
Ben de Waal
(typed from the AmigaOne G3XE running Debian)
 

Offline elendil

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Nov 2002
  • Posts: 324
    • Show only replies by elendil
    • http://www.idiot.fnuck.dk
Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2003, 11:24:40 AM »
@cymric
Quote
Third thing: I am *really* curious as how you manage to lock up the system 'with everything you experiment'. You can crash Linux, but it takes an effort, and to be very honest, I don't think a newbie can do it. So please, to satisfy my curiosity, what kind of experiments do you conduct?


....play divx in xine. about 5% chance of complete lock up with a green screen (not even playing fullscreen). What it is doing and why I have no clue, but I should not need to care about such anyway.

Anyway, I too would hate to discuss linux, your comment just made me remember why I boot up linux only for programming :-)

Sincerely,

-Kenneth Straarup.
 

Offline Themamboman

  • Lifetime Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 164
    • Show only replies by Themamboman
Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2003, 02:51:25 PM »
I would throw in a 3rd faction there.  Those that want to run Amiga or Amiga-like OS's on other hardware.

You can include UAE, Amithlon and even AROS into this group.  I would say that this would probably comprise as large, or even larger number of users (mostly due to WinUAE/AmigaForever/AIAB being so easy to use these days).

I personally look towards AROS as my future Amiga use.  Being open-source gives it a linux-like attraction.

Just my opinion though.

Both the Amiga1/OS4 and MorphOS/Pegasus would be nice though...
 

Offline olegil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 955
    • Show only replies by olegil
Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #48 on: June 11, 2003, 03:17:27 PM »
Quote

Varthall wrote:


Linux: it's not standardized yet, there are many window managers around but none of them is the default one on all the Linux distros. Also, many tasks are still unnecessarily complicated (to copy files to a floppy you need to give "sync" command to fisically do it, just everything I experiment makes the system hang - I'm saying this as a Linux newbie)



You should try out my setup for autofs :-)
Always mount removable media with -o sync, and preferably mount it from autofs with a timeout of 1-3 seconds. Works nicely for cdroms, floppy and usb thingies.
 

Offline DavidF215

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 182
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • Show only replies by DavidF215
    • Cross Timbers Haven
Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #49 on: June 11, 2003, 03:19:01 PM »
Quote

YttriumOx wrote:
Quote
DavidF215 wrote:
...60+ seconds on Linux...

Really?  On the Athlon 1900 you mention?  What ARE you doing to the poor thing?  


It's Red Hat 8.0. FreeBSD booted much faster, but the mouse in X freaked out under FreeBSD. X ran faster on FreeBSD, too, but that's for another thread. :-)
AmigaOS enthusiast since 1993.
 

  • Guest
Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #50 on: June 11, 2003, 03:24:17 PM »
Quote

DavidF215 wrote:
Quote

YttriumOx wrote:
Quote
DavidF215 wrote:
...60+ seconds on Linux...

Really?  On the Athlon 1900 you mention?  What ARE you doing to the poor thing?  


It's Red Hat 8.0. FreeBSD booted much faster, but the mouse in X freaked out under FreeBSD. X ran faster on FreeBSD, too, but that's for another thread. :-)


Well that'll be because you don't have DMA enabled.

edit /etc/sysconfig/harddisks
and un-comment the lines that set up the UDMA stuff by removing the #

also, install apt4 from freshrpms.net, and 'apt-get prelink'.

then 'prelink -afmR' as root.

Your machine should be a lot quicker after that.

You can also disble service you don't need with the redhat tools IIRC.
 

Offline downix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2003
  • Posts: 1587
    • Show only replies by downix
    • http://www.applemonthly.com
Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #51 on: June 11, 2003, 03:28:53 PM »
@yttrumox

Ok, since we're bragging about startup times:

On my Pegasos, booting MOS, it takes 5 seconds to get Ambient up once the OF initializes (which takes usually 4 seconds)

As for booting Debian, usually 14 seconds once OF is setup.
Try blazedmongers new Free Universal Computer kit, available with the GUI toolkit Your Own Universe, the popular IT edition, Extremely Reliable System for embedded work, Enhanced Database development and Wide Area Development system for telecommuting.
 

Offline Varthall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 633
    • Show only replies by Varthall
Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #52 on: June 11, 2003, 05:04:30 PM »
Quote

Cymric wrote:
I am not going to turn this into a crash course on Linux, but... excuse me? The window manager thing is unlikely to be resolved, given the fact that X is designed to be fitted with different managers. I can use a very simple or a very elaborate one. Other OSes are as closed as a clam in that regard.

Well, it depends what is for anyone more important in an Os, a wide choice of incompatible managers, or a single one set as standard. In my point of view, a standardized one is more important, as it would be for many programmers who wouldn't have to worry which manager to choose before starting to code. Well, I could be wrong... do all the managers in Linux have a common set of basic functions for windows managing and the like?

Quote

However, what really made me go 'huh?' was that you somehow don't understand the reason for sync. Linux uses a buffered filesystem, so *everything* you write out to disk is cached. This allows for a great speedup of file I/O, since if the data written out is needed again, you just obtain it from RAM. There is no need at all to issue a sync manually---in fact, unmounting the floppy will do it for you. The design is to cache everything, and you can add auto-flushing capabilities later on if you so desire.

The problem is that AFAIK only Linux manages floppies and other devices this way: recent versions of Windows use caching, Beos requires mounting of devices, but they don't do delayed synching. It's nice that it's possible to do autoflushing, but I would prefer it to be set as default, I've spent half an afternoon to try to understand why files don't get copied to floppy even if the cp command was succesfull.
Also, caching can lead to unnecessarily problems: on a machine with Windows 2000, when I copy something to a floppy, to check it was copied correctly I usually copy it back to hard drive, but because of caching I have to take off the floppy, click on the drive's icon, reinsert the floppy and reclick to icon to be sure that the buffred has been flushed. Maybe there's some other way to avoid this, but I don't know of any other. Not that I use often floppies, but it's annoying neverthless.

Quote

Third thing: I am *really* curious as how you manage to lock up the system 'with everything you experiment'. You can crash Linux, but it takes an effort, and to be very honest, I don't think a newbie can do it. So please, to satisfy my curiosity, what kind of experiments do you conduct?

During an install of Slackware 9 I was trying to set a default window manager. I don't remember what have I done, but while trying to do so, at a reboot the system reported an error and it wouldn't boot. Later I've found out that the link of xinit has to be changed, in my case from xinit.kde to xinitrc. But when I wanted to try another wm, linking another file to xinitrc didn't work - startx loaded the same wm.

I had worse experiences with OpenBSD on Amiga. I was trying to add the support for the amiga's filesystem, to be able to read my Amiga partition under BSD. I have found very little information on internet, I've tried to add a line to fstab but I coudn't mount the partition. Later I found an example fstab which had an additional boolean flag on every line. Maybe this flag was working only on later versions of OpenBSD, because after adding it the system wouldn't boot again and I didn't find any other solution than reinstalling everything.

Of course it matters how much anyone is used to a system - I'm using AmigaOs 3.0 since 1996 and because of this I feel much more confortable when I use it.

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Varthall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 633
    • Show only replies by Varthall
Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #53 on: June 11, 2003, 05:13:06 PM »
Quote

olegil wrote:
You should try out my setup for autofs :-)
Always mount removable media with -o sync, and preferably mount it from autofs with a timeout of 1-3 seconds. Works nicely for cdroms, floppy and usb thingies.


Autofs? Is this a script?
I'll try the -o thing as suggested, thanks  :-)

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline cecilia

  • Amiga Snob
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 4875
  • Country: 00
    • Show only replies by cecilia
    • http://cecilia.sawneybean.com/
Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #54 on: June 11, 2003, 06:17:50 PM »
why "revive" Amiga????
my amiga have never been dead! and now that i have a THREE OS laptop, i can tell you that while windows2000 is the most stable of that list of horror shows, it's STILL windows! and while I like my linux (RH8) - it's stable and fun to use and hs some cool programs, it does have a few wierd things about it. like the fact that if you want to install a newer nVidia driver you have to get a geek friend to research the process and then recompile the kernal and ghod knows what else. dance around standing stones at nite?
anyway, as soon as i got WinUAE up I breathed a sign of relief. I was seeing an old friend again. it's not perfect, but it's wonderful.

and THAT's why I want to still have Amiga in whatever form i can get it. (and my real ones still work)
Amiga really IS my friend.
the no CARB diet- no Cheney, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld or Bush.
IFX CD Tutorial
 

Offline Zorro

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Feb 2003
  • Posts: 153
    • Show only replies by Zorro
Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #55 on: June 11, 2003, 06:38:44 PM »
Quote
and THAT's why I want to still have Amiga in whatever form i can get it. (and my real ones still work)


And, if all goes well, you and I (and all others... ;-) ) will have Amiga in a better form that anyone had dreamed about in the recent dark years...

Thanks to OS dev team.

Ale 8-)
--- --- --- --- --- --- ---
   Zorro:roflmao:Zorro
--- --- --- --- --- --- ---
The Phoenix is rising...
 

Offline smerf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1666
    • Show only replies by smerf
Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #56 on: June 11, 2003, 07:05:43 PM »
Hi,

The reasons I want the Amiga to be revived are:

1.  I like everything about the Amiga.

2.  With computers, OS's and systems dying out like
      winblows plague ridden rats, I really don't want to
      be left with just winblows operated computers.

3.  Linux is ok if your a 100% mindless geek that
     doesn't know what sex is and has time to play
     with themselves while doing a computer. (That
     goes in both areas), but I would rather use flexible
     system that does not take a 15 year college
     course and 10 tons of books to understand and
     use, and besides I am spoiled by the Amiga just
    plug in your hardware and go.

5.  Never used an apple product and never will or
     shall I say that the only people using apples are
    plastic know nothings that don't understand what
    computers are about. These users are rated
    lower than Linux users and are even rated lower
    than winblows users in my book.

So now you know, $800 to $1700 is cheap to bring back a computer that can help prevent the winblows computer monopoly from existing.

Smerf

I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline DavidF215

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 182
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • Show only replies by DavidF215
    • Cross Timbers Haven
Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #57 on: June 16, 2003, 03:34:27 PM »
Quote

smerf wrote:
5.  Never used an apple product and never will or
     shall I say that the only people using apples are
    plastic know nothings that don't understand what
    computers are about. These users are rated
    lower than Linux users and are even rated lower
    than winblows users in my book.


Go to CompUSA this week and try out their new OS X. I think that you'll find that it's pretty neat. I liked it a lot. It is a simple GUI with *nix power.
AmigaOS enthusiast since 1993.
 

  • Guest
Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #58 on: June 16, 2003, 03:40:13 PM »
Quote

DavidF215 wrote:
Quote

smerf wrote:
5.  Never used an apple product and never will or
     shall I say that the only people using apples are
    plastic know nothings that don't understand what
    computers are about. These users are rated
    lower than Linux users and are even rated lower
    than winblows users in my book.


Go to CompUSA this week and try out their new OS X. I think that you'll find that it's pretty neat. I liked it a lot. It is a simple GUI with *nix power.


So is Ximian Desktop 2 on Linux Ximian Desktop 2

And you don't need to break the bank to buy the hardware it runs on! ;-)
 

Offline csirac_

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 154
    • Show only replies by csirac_
Re: Why revive Amiga?
« Reply #59 on: June 16, 2003, 04:09:04 PM »
@Bloodline:

Quote
X Crashes non stop for me... Probably due to some dodgy GFX drivers more than X's fault... but once X goes it can take the Keyboard with it and that's it no more Linux session... Reboot time.


Then you need to run sshd ;) Saved my skin more than once.

I've only really crashed X while trying to run some dodgy svga game or other as root... or when I upgraded X right from under it, while it was running... etc. I think VMWare crashed it once, but can't be sure. I found it fairly stable, considering I have to use Linux 2.4.21-rc2-ac2 just to have my KT400 chipset/ 8x AGP + Radeon 9000 work! BTW Later kernel revisions break my OpenGL apps - they slow down to 1fps (but still seem to be hardware rendered? Software mode works faster?) :/

And a comment about AROS: I like! I've talked to others complaining that the only experimental OSS OS projects out there are just boot loaders or are based on a hacked linux or BSD kernel, well now they have AROS to contend with ;)

This holidays I'm going to sit down and play with the AROS code. Prior experience? I wrote a small RTOS for the M68HC912B32 ('HC12) in about 2KiB of FLASH; it had such amazing features as hybrid rate monotonic/round robin scheduling, malloc(), free(), and printf() :P All my own code of course, none of this libc/newlib stuff.. ;)

- Paul