Shootings and gangs: black community leaders speak up

[X-ray]

I have been pleasantly surprised by the comments on national TV tonight, concerning the spate of shootings in south London that have left three teenagers dead in the space of only ten days.
David Lammy, MP for Tottenham gave the best summary of the problems and offered the best solutions in my opinion.
In years gone by, the response from the community would have been criticism of the government for not stopping guns falling into the hands of criminals.
However, it is now a widely accepted fact that these London shootings and many of the shootings elsewhere in England are more prominently seen in the black community. Operation Trident has been running for many years and deals with black on black violence here in London. I hate to use the term gun culture, because I think it places too much emphasis on what is essentially a tool, but the general consensus is that better parenting and a reduced gang mentality is needed to stop these teenagers from taking part in revenge and 'respect' killings in the black communities here in London.
Other community leaders have called for more responsibility to be taken by parents, particularly fathers, who are not taking enough interest in their boys' upbringing, and not being appropriate role models for their kids.
Lammy said that the final analysis of a person who takes a gun and shoots somebody dead, is that it is an evil wicked thing to do.
He proposes that the communities themselves must get involved in sorting this problem out.
That's the right path to take, in my opinion.

[shillard]

I don't understand?

British politicians took all the evil guns away.

How could anyone possibly get shot in the handgun-free United Kingdom?

You must be imagining things.

[iamaboringperson]

What's wrong with London?

(Obviously) There are black people in Melbourne, but no shootings.

[Karlos]

@shillard

No, they made them more difficult to own without a license and less convenient to purchase. They also made it illegal to go walking the streets with them. At no point did they come and physically remove them people, except during arrests of people found brandishing them perhaps.

Making something illegal will never stop someone determined to break that law from doing it. It just deters the waverers.

To turn your pathetically moronic point around:

So, does anybody take hard drugs in Oz? Wow, I thought it was illegal. How could anyone ever OD in hard-drug free Oz?

[X-ray]

I think Shillard was being sarcastic, but we are all on the same page: a ban doesn't stop criminals getting what they want.
To clarify on the legal angle here in the UK:

1) The only handguns (firearms) that can be licensed here in England, are black-powder pistols (muzzle-loading pistols). These have not been seen in many gunshot incidents of a criminal nature here in the UK (in fact I have not heard of even one such incident here, but there is/was a criminal element in Australia that tends/tended to favour black-powder pistols).

2) Shotguns can be owned if the individual applies for the appropriate certificate from the police. An individual with a valid shotgun certificate can have as many shotguns as he likes. These can operate by any mechanism (break, pump, semi-auto) as long as the shotgun cannot have more than 3 cartridges 'on board' at a time.

3) No semi-automatic rifles can be had. The only exception to this is rimfire rifles (usually this means .22s). Any centerfire rifle must be manually loading (such as bolt action, lever action, pump action etc). There aren't any calibre limits for manually-operated rifles, but range limitations exist.

4) A muzzle-loading pistol can be had on a firearms certificate, same as the rifles. If the shooter wants to practice the original black powder disciplines, he needs two additional licenses relating to explosives. He needs a license to store explosives and another license to transport those explosives from their place of storage to the range. These days people use Pyrodex instead of black powder because Pyrodex is not an explosive.

5) Crossbows are not licensed. Air rifles and pistols under a certain foot-pound energy value are not licensed, but age limits apply to the purchasing of these items. (I'm not sure what that age is, but it is in the teens).

If you want a firearms certificate, the onus is on you to prove to the police why you need that, whereas if you want a shotgun certificate, the onus is on the police to prove why you shouldn't have it.

And those are the laws in a nutshell. There are exceptions, but the requirements to meet those exceptions are usually beyond the ordinary citizen's needs.

[mick_aka]

Heres a ridiculous fact for you from a pal who is a firearms officer, to own and operate a military tank within the UK with a working weapon (turret mounted cannon) under 75mm in caliber you require:

A standard full UK driving licence (as they are not goods vehicles there is no weight restriction)and a standard shotgun licence.
Your vehicle must also be registered with your local police station.

Seems pretty simple, im off a tank shopping!

[Oliver]

mick_aka wrote:
Heres a ridiculous fact for you from a pal who is a firearms officer, to own and operate a military tank within the UK with a working weapon (turret mounted cannon) under 75mm in caliber you require:

A standard full UK driving licence (as they are not goods vehicles there is no weight restriction)and a standard shotgun licence.
Your vehicle must also be registered with your local police station.

Seems pretty simple, im off a tank shopping!

Are there additional restrictions on purchasing or licensing such a vehicle?

[CannonFodder]

"Black Community Leaders" eh?

Which "Black Community" do they claim to speak for I wonder, or is that just a nice tabloid friendly label dreamed up by some PC bra burner?

[T_Bone]

CannonFodder wrote:
"Black Community Leaders" eh?

Which "Black Community" do they claim to speak for I wonder, or is that just a nice tabloid friendly label dreamed up by some PC bra burner?

We have a gunfight to determine which BC's leader gets grand poobah status.  :lol:

[X-ray]

Hey man, T-Bone is back  :banana:  :banana:
Good to see you again  :pint:

[shillard]

Karlos wrote:
@shillard

No, they made them more difficult to own without a license and less convenient to purchase. They also made it illegal to go walking the streets with them. At no point did they come and physically remove them people, except during arrests of people found brandishing them perhaps.

Making something illegal will never stop someone determined to break that law from doing it. It just deters the waverers.

To turn your pathetically moronic point around:

So, does anybody take hard drugs in Oz? Wow, I thought it was illegal. How could anyone ever OD in hard-drug free Oz?

And here I was, thinking my sarcasm was about as subtle as a brick in the face.....

[Karlos]

The problem with your sarcasm is that it is seemingly impossible to differentiate from your normal posting style, if what I have read of your comments here is anything to go by.

[Karlos]

X-ray wrote:
Hey man, T-Bone is back  :banana:  :banana:
Good to see you again  :pint:

Seconded!

Where the heck have you been, Troy?

[X-ray]

...and what happened with those kitties?

[CannonFodder]

So basically, you are saying that gun crime is the fault of blacks and it's about time they took responsibility for it.