Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard

[Rob]

Has anyone else noticed the illustration Picture Terrasoft use for the
Teron PX is a Teron CX.

[MarkTime]

@anarchic,

yes I was referring to L3 cache, not L2 cache.  Which I almost corrected, but it was late....still you are right, and I was adding to the confusion just a bit, thanks for the correction.

However, I do think they can sell a teron px for $499 and make plenty of money.  In the PC world an 800mhz processor on 2xAGP motherboard would go for, ohhh 99 dollars maybe.

This isn't the same, I know...but $499 is FIVE TIMES AS MUCH...that should cover the difference of the smaller market.  You know MAI just makes a cheap @#$#@ chipset, those  chips aren't made of gold, they aren't even up to date...so, long story short, the real thing that caries the premium is the G4 chip, but going for the ultra-low end 800mhz model is SUPPOSED to be taking part of that sting away.

whatever happens, happens....I am willing to wait until February to compare shipping prices...I never had any intention of pre-ordering anything, so I was always safe.

my opinion, wait for stock, always wait for stock, prices go down

imho

[MarkTime]

@bbrv

I can admit I puzzled over that name for a few seconds, but there is more interesting drama at the moment, I'll certainly save that potential conspiracy theory for another day.

I knew of Terrasoft from their YDL product, but the first promise they ever made, that I cared about, was the 'Janurary' release date of the Boxer...they blew that, bad bad terrasoft.

Still,  we can deconstruct any company to death, Terrasoft ships products at competitive prices, because they operate in a competitive market.  I am sure they aren't concerned about Amiga, but rather competitive threats in the emerging ppc linux field...such as hemeris and especially apple...

Sooooooooooo I think its great, very exciting, and I sure hope somehow it translates into an exciting Amiga market too....

[MarkTime]

@poweramiga2002,

He's just running that up the pole to see if it flies...there are a lot of reasons why the G4 is faster than a G3...and no reason why an 800mhzG4 would be slower than a 600mhzG3.

If they were clocked the same, we could talk about cache sizes and altivec coding and have a real bru-haha of a discussion, but luckily, they just aren't the same.

[Korodny]

@bbrv:

Hey look Rose, here we all are -- together -- no harsh words, no insults...incredible!

Yes, most of us are pretty happy that you managed to post two contributions to this thread without

- posting private e-mails
- insulting somebody ("coward", troll", "no guts")
- telling somebody to "go away"
- threatening somebody to publish private information about him

Now if you could stop this "Rose has been a good girl today" crap, we could start to take you serious again. Thanks in advance.

[downix]

He's just running that up the pole to see if it flies...there are a lot of reasons why the G4 is faster than a G3...and no reason why an 800mhzG4 would be slower than a 600mhzG3.

Providing we're discussing the same G3.  If you're comparing the Motorola MPC750 series of processors (what Apple called the G3) then you'd be correct.

But we're not, we're discussing the IBM 750 series of PowerPC processors.  These are very different beasts from Motorola's lineup.  Better pipeline setup, better heat dissipation, better processes used, all make them a stronger beast than Motorola offers.  The performance jump comes out to about 20% last time I checked... which is about the same boost that you get on a G4 w/o using the Altivec.

Now, once you add-in Altivec, it gets into L3 availibility.  If it's availible, then Altivec gives a serious boost to performance.  if not, you don't get much of one.

I'm not saying that a Pegasos is the best deal on the planet, but we're doing our best and delivering an honest product at an honest price.  Before you dismiss us due to a CPU spec at a pricepoint, how about you look at the rest of the solution.

The Teron board is a full ATX, Pegasos is a smaller Micro-ATX.

Teron doesn't include firewire while the Pegasos does

The teron uses the VIA 686B southbridge, which has known DMA bugs that are well documented.  The Pegasos uses the 8231 southbridge, which is a more modern chipset.  In fact, VIA is listing the VT6x series of southbridges as end-of-life when I checked their website.  While the VT82xx series has new versions still arriving.

then there's the quality of construction.  The Teron board is using every approach to lower the cost of the design.  The Pegasos uses higher-quality connectors in almost all cases.  Means the Pegasos will last longer in many situations.  Also, the positioning of the components on the motherboard can be an issue.  The Teron board has plug interfaces at the end of where the PCI slots run, which means if you get a long card, you can't use the hard drives, for example.  (before you get into it, I have a pro-studio AGP card here that is from the backplane to the front-brackets in my case, so it does actually occur)

Then there's the AGP/PCI-66Mhz slot issue.  If you run a 66Mhz card in that slot, AGP turns into a 33Mhz PCI slot.  Oops!

Of course, the Teron does support that funky new winmodem port.....

[strobe]

I don't understand the fourth PCi slot either. I mean who in their right minds would prefer four PCI cards and no AGP instead of three PCI cards and an AGP?

Are people planning on running a machine without a video card? Makes no sense.

[poweramiga2002]

Theres way too much gum flapping going on ere and when its all sed an done who cares as long as we get our A1 AMIGAS thats all that counts as long as its an AMIGA its always been the best and will always be the best

[Seehund]

anarchic_teapot wrote:

Terrasoft's site looks to me as if it hasn't been fully updated, as there's no way they can sell the PX for the same prix as the CX and make money on it. They do have to eat, after all.

I just got a confirmation from Kai Staats that this is no typo, if something unforeseen happens it may go up by $50 but not more.
Mai used to charge $300 for the CX without a CPU, and the PX is neglibly more expensive to do (extra component costs: a MEG-Array connector and an ATX audio header = a few bucks). The main price difference lies in the CPUs (the PX CPU module PCBs cost a couple of extra bucks to do too).

As I've said before, there's no reason to keep making the CX ("AmigaOne SE") now. It wasn't all too suitable as a consumer board to begin with, and the PX fills its niche very well without being more expensive.

[Seehund]

anarchic_teapot wrote:

zacman wrote:

The OS4 enabler kit (to make a LinuxOne OS4
compatible, fully licenced etc.) is available for
160EUR from Vesalia. So for TS (if the price was
right) would be 660eur for a 64/800MHz Boxer with a
OS4 licence.

Except that the Boxer won't come with an OS4 licence.

Neither do the Teron PXes that Eyetech will sell at a recommended price of 800 Euro.

Not forgetting that the update kit also comprises a new firmware chip, the extractor tool and a legal copy of OS4.

What's the actual story on this? Nobody seems to know for sure. Will the dongle code be in the same reflashable *PROM as the firmware, or in a separate socketed ROM?

Other commercial OSes cost more than 160 euros inc VAT for the OS alone,

Yeah, for that price I can think of several high-end corporate server OSes...

and you've already paid for the licence with your mobo, whether you wanted to or not.

800 Euros apparently don't get you AmigaOS.

$499 gets you a boxed and supported copy of YDL.

[/quote]

[ksk]

@downix
>Then there's the AGP/PCI-66Mhz slot issue. If you run a
>66Mhz card in that slot, AGP turns into a 33Mhz PCI slot.

If one uses 66Mhz PCI card on the same bus with the AGP slot, the AGP2x (dualpumped 66Mhz) speed drops to 1x (still 66Mhz though). The clock frequency does not change but the data could not be moved twice per clock cycle, like in AGP2x.

(IMO: The speed difference between AGP1x and AGP2x is noticeable, but not with the current Amiga games.)

[Seehund]

Rob wrote:


Has anyone else noticed the illustration Picture Terrasoft use for the
Teron PX is a Teron CX.

Yup. TS says the final PXes are still in fabbing, so they haven't had an opportunity for a new photoshoot. Also, there's no mention of the on-board audio ("Yes, we are aware of this. I have not had time to update all of the information.").

what I wonder(and I know this is probably ignorant) is why business like say Genesi...cant get Asus or one of the big board makers to fab their boards out?... I'm not talking about selling them in bulk numbers or anything...but I just imagine it wouldnt be as expensive to do that instead of running off the DCE fab....am i possibly right? tell me why I'm wrong if I'm wrong... this is a question not a comment or statement.

[DaveP]

then there's the quality of construction. The Teron board is using every approach to lower the cost of the design. The Pegasos uses higher-quality connectors in almost all cases. Means the Pegasos will last longer in many situations. Also, the positioning of the components on the motherboard can be an issue. The Teron board has plug interfaces at the end of where the PCI slots run, which means if you get a long card, you can't use the hard drives, for example. (before you get into it, I have a pro-studio AGP card here that is from the backplane to the front-brackets in my case, so it does actually occur)

Well after that I have no evidence that I can call on but
Im certainly now doubtful, full of fear and uncertainty.

[Herewegoagain]

The Teron board is a full ATX, Pegasos is a smaller Micro-ATX.

Works great if you are a midget with tiny hands to work in that tight cramped up case with hardly any way to get air flow through it.

Give me a full size board and case anyday.

Teron doesn't include firewire while the Pegasos does

Oh yeah, last time I needed firewire was .... hmmmm.............. never!  Don't need it, as most people will not.  If they do, just pop in a PCI card.  They are not that expensive for heavens sake.

The teron uses the VIA 686B southbridge, which has known DMA bugs that are well documented. The Pegasos uses the 8231 southbridge, which is a more modern chipset. In fact, VIA is listing the VT6x series of southbridges as end-of-life when I checked their website. While the VT82xx series has new versions still arriving.

Well this has been debated to death, and I believe it has been pointed out in other threads that the 8231 has some issues of it's own....So let's not call the kettle black yet.

then there's the quality of construction. The Teron board is using every approach to lower the cost of the design. The Pegasos uses higher-quality connectors in almost all cases. Means the Pegasos will last longer in many situations.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:   Nice one....nobody can build a quality product but DCE.  Thanks for the laugh.

Also, the positioning of the components on the motherboard can be an issue. The Teron board has plug interfaces at the end of where the PCI slots run, which means if you get a long card, you can't use the hard drives, for example. (before you get into it, I have a pro-studio AGP card here that is from the backplane to the front-brackets in my case, so it does actually occur)

Come on now.  Is it the use of a long PCI card or AGP card that would be a problem.  Everyone with a full length PCI or AGP card raise your hand?  Anyway, it's not like the IDE connectors stick up higher than the actual PCI connector (which cards don't usually go below anyay).  Ok, move the PCI card to another slot then... how about that.  

Then there's the AGP/PCI-66Mhz slot issue. If you run a 66Mhz card in that slot, AGP turns into a 33Mhz PCI slot. Oops!

Already addressed by someone above.

Of course, the Teron does support that funky new winmodem port.....

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzz.. Wrong!  You are not keeping up with the news Downix.  No AMR slot on the PX boards.  (which btw are not only for modems)

[Themamboman]

Kronos wrote:
@weiseb

That board is still running through Eyetech who have zero interest
in showing the pricegap between both boards (and want to make some
extra  $$$$$).

I don't want to be a trouble maker, but I'm a little weary of Eyetech.  About 6-7 years ago, I found a guy who made a custom hardware and software package for the Amiga to utilize the Connectix Quickcam, black and white version when I lived in Ft Lauderdale, Florida (he lived in the same town).

He wrote the software himself and uploaded a demo to aminet:

http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/aminet/biz/demo/QuickCam.readme

and designed and hand constructed the hardware himself:

http://www.amiga-hardware.com/quickcam.html

He was contacted by an Eyetech representative at the time about a distribution deal, so he sent a custom cable and software to them for them to test.  At the time, the only other solution was being worked on by a group called ACQVid or something like that, and I don't think they ever shipped it.

Anyway, he told me later, that Eyetech started advertising his cable and software for sale on their UK webpage, and they had never contacted him or paid him for his design.  They just started building cables and copying his software.  I'm not sure if they even printed a manual, but he said that they basically stole his product.

Tony was just a single, mid-20's immigrant with no family, working low-paying jobs and making his amiga products because he loved the platform.  He had no money for a lawyer (let alone an international one).  I know he complained to them several times by email, with little result.

I'm not indicting the whole crew at Eyetech, but at least one person there was dishonest at that time.  I'm personally not going to give them any money because of that.

BTW, I used to host a website advertising the his software and hardware.  The page was designed by the guy who used to run the Almost Daily Fishwrap which was a very good amiga news site, if you remember that one.