My evening with Commodore USA, LLC

[KThunder]

Why are you telling folk to "get over it" folk are entitled to voice their views and opinions just like you do.

Who are this "We" you speak of, have you been nominated their spokesman ?

Again your comment "Fine it doesn't have anything to do with Amiga, so freaking what," why is it ok for you to make such comments but you insist on telling folk that there opinions don't count... blah, blah, blah...

Your continuing to harp on about other folks comments is also ringing very hollow, I think you can only ever see one side of an argument and it always seems to be yours...

"we" as in the people who are interested in this company. As in I am one of them.

I never said anyones opinion doesn't count. But Ill tell you this, my opinion doesnt really count for OS4, or MOS or Natami, or quite a few other projects because I don't really care about them.

I see your side of the argument, I have heard it over and over again, and yet you still make it. Relax, this product isn't for you, just like OS4 isn't for me. I don't state my opinion over and over on OS4 threads because I don't care, I don't consider it to be any more "amiga" than Aros, or MOS or any of the other projects out there.

[KThunder]

Not true, not even a little bit. There is the operating system.

OS4 was not produced by commodore, or even AI, and it doesnt run on real 68k amigas.

[KThunder]

Neither will Workbench 5.  Your point is?  Perhaps Commodore should have had their business plans stolen when they moved from the VIC-20 to the C64 as VIC software wouldn't run on that and it used a different CPU?

Nothing was stolen!!! AI has licensed the IP to Hyperion, Cloanto, and CUSA. AI is not developing anything. Amiga was a 68k computer developed in the 80's and early 90's by Commodore International. None of these is the amiga or even a real succesor to the amiga.

This is 2011, nothing we have is related other than by license to the real amiga. But we can fight and squable and carry on about stuff we don't like, or we can relax, and like what we like and let others do the same.

[KThunder]

I agree with you that this product isn't for me and I've already stated that here in other threads, just as I have stated I wish CUSA no harm in their business venture.

My only complaint (which I have also stated numerous times) is the use of the Commodore, C64, Amiga & Workbench Brand Names/Trademarks but as CUSA seems to be adamant on using them then I shall continue to express my views on this whenever the subject arises...

Should they have asked you? If they asked everyone in the amiga community they would get different answers from all of us. From what I can see they have every legal right to use these names, and a significant part of the community supports them. That you don't is regrettable, but that is one (rather loud) voice.

I used to give my opinion about OS4 whenever the subject arose, until I realized that my opinion didn't (and shouldn't) matter to the developers, and supporters of OS4. I am not a potential customer and they don't care. My opinion was, and is worthless.

[KThunder]

There is an active "AMiga" product in the shape of OS4.x.

The "Amiga" name has been hijacked and is being deliberately used to undermine this long time and active product.

C-USA are a bunch of wasters and their actions are disgusting.

What don't you understand?

I don't understand how you don't understand that OS4 has as much to do with Amiga as Aros (AI accepts and has even used code from aros) MOS and CUSA. They are all used license. OS4 is not "Amiga" it is a decendant but Aros actually has a more direct link.

The name has not been "hijacked" except by morons that think it is some religious thing that should never be touched except by companies that they approve of.

You are a waster and this nonsense is disgusting. Trashng a company that is legally starting a retro based company.

[KThunder]

Someone seems to have forgotten the Lessons of New Coke:

Not all of us are "objecting" on moral/ethical grounds. Some of us are suggesting they make more _strategic_ choices.

Nothing CUSA could possibly do would appeal to everyone. They are making stratigic choices, except possibly forgetting or not knowing how much of a cult we really are in.

[KThunder]

Damn right they should have asked me...

Joking aside, I don't see a significant part of the community supporting them both here and on AW and on various reports I've read about CUSA on other sites, quite the opposite in fact.

You make consider by you own words that you opinion on OS4 was worthless but I don't consider my opinions to be worthless to me, otherwise there would be no point in me expressing them...

If you aren't a potential customer what are your opinions worth to them. Not much. If you continue expessing them like this? they will, because you will be an enemy.

[KThunder]

This would have been the "sane" solution for C-USA:

Commodore PCs - a line of C= branded PCs running a variety of off-the-shelf OS's (Win, Linux, etc) or with a blank HD.
Commodore "Classic" PCs - as above, but with a Commodore themed case and AmigaForever/C64 Forever pre-installed with possily USB-Analog joystick adapters, joysticks and games.
Commodore Amiga cases - replacement cases for existing Amiga-like machines (Amiga1000-4000, OS4.x mobos, Minimig solutions, etc)
Commodore Amiga models - A line of Amiga compatable machines using Minimig/FPGA Arcade and eventually Natami supplied with a preconfigured SD Card containing ROMs, WB3.x and games.

Instead, they're up to something evil.

Something evil?!??!?!  HA HA HA freaking... seriously?!

Are you still drunk?

[KThunder]

But he could have been if they had a sane business model that didn't involve shafting those who had been keeping the Amiga name alive through the dark years.

Again, how are they shafting ANYONE? right from the beginning they said they wanted to work with the powers that be, they even considered AROS as an OS. They didnt consider OS4 because there is no way to do that and stay in business.

[KThunder]

No, I'm perfectly sane.  I admit my choice of words is a little colourful, but they're not off the mark.

Red is a longterm, respected member of amiga.org, he went, he saw, he reported, they arent up to anything sinister, Barry Altman is a long time Commodore fan, and successful business man, who wants to do more than just a case mod for himself.

Your comments, are off the mark.

[KThunder]

I have come to the conclusion that you are a C-USA "sock puppet" and you're only here to continually repeat their party line.

I'm done with you.

You know they're scum and their business model sucks.  You fail to address my alternative business plan, because this isn't about business plans.  It probably has more to McEwan sticking it to Hyperion which either means he has his fingers in C-USA or sgafting Hyperiod was part of the deal.

You THINK they are scum, you THINK the model suck, but what the heck do you know. Barry Altman has started several sucessful businesses. Red has reported he is not full of crap.

Your business model looks fine but who cares you aren't a entrepenuer with money to spend on CUSA, Barry is.

As for me being a sock puppet? I have been on Amiga.org for years, Ive never been banned, or even moderated (ahem, you yesterday) I have posted on many different amiga products and this is another. I think it has potential. I probably wont buy one because I am cheap like heck and build my own PCs. But if I were to buy a new computer, it very well might be a commodore.

[KThunder]

...
While I don't agree with Darrin's "evil" rhetoric, I think he's onto something with the idea of differentiated product lines providing some actual support for those of us in the community who see the Amiga brand as something more than just a sticker to be slapped onto whatever's selling well. Instead, C-USA seems to be completely in the dark about this, and its supporters actively hostile to anybody with a different view...

Why should they provide a differetiated product line? Hyperion etc. haven't, Cloanto doesnt. OS4 is for PPC only, Aros is open source and can be ported to different archs but x86 is the main one.

This guy recognizes that x86 rules the world. Even Apple recognized that.

[KThunder]

So that makes his opinion invalid? Is that what this comes down to, money? 'Cause people who will take anything from anybody as long as they bring the cash, there's a word for them...

He isn't spending his own money to start a company. Barry is.

[KThunder]

More than you, obviously.

And I'm very successful too thanks, mostly because I know scum when I see it.

Have you met Barry? have you seen his company? have you seen his work on CUSA? I'm betting no, Red has, I take his work well over yours, especially since you seem to be saying the same thing over and over without substantiation.

[KThunder]

Ah, shall we drag Genesi in too?

Hyperion won in court, that's good enough for me.

I don't expect a long-term MOS fanboy to agree with me.

However, what do you think of C-USA's Workbench 5 marketing?  Perhaps they could call it "Morph Workbench 5"?

So it is good enough for you that hyperion had a legal right, but CUSAs legal right means nothing? I dont expect an off-his-rocker OS4 fanboy to agree with me.

[KThunder]

And when have Hyperion, Cloanto, or A-Eon been held up as exemplary niche computer businesses, exactly? Providing a differentiated product line could give C-USA the opportuntity to do something that they don't: serve more than one segment of the market. There are people here who would be happy to run Linux with an emulator on an x86 box, and more power to them (and to C-USA, if they're just serving that need and not trying to promote themselves as the True Successor.) But there are also a lot of people who'd like to see something else that's closer to the original Amiga, and their options are woefully limited. If Barry is such a successful businessman, he might have the potential to see through some of these community projects to completion and make them available to all the people who want them, not just the few that get their hands on developer prototypes and testing boards while waiting for the real thing to finally be available.

Or, you know, he could follow your example, shrug his shoulders, say "x86 wins, why bother, nothing good ever came of doing something different," and go with what everybody else does.

Trying to offer a differentiated product line is also a great way to ensure you never get off the ground. It takes a lot of money to do this stuff. He should focus on what has the best chances right now.