My evening with Commodore USA, LLC

[Franko]

I see your side of the argument, I have heard it over and over again, and yet you still make it. Relax, this product isn't for you, just like OS4 isn't for me. I don't state my opinion over and over on OS4 threads because I don't care, I don't consider it to be any more "amiga" than Aros, or MOS or any of the other projects out there.

I agree with you that this product isn't for me and I've already stated that here in other threads, just as I have stated I wish CUSA no harm in their business venture.

My only complaint (which I have also stated numerous times) is the use of the Commodore, C64, Amiga & Workbench Brand Names/Trademarks but as CUSA seems to be adamant on using them then I shall continue to express my views on this whenever the subject arises...

[KThunder]

Neither will Workbench 5.  Your point is?  Perhaps Commodore should have had their business plans stolen when they moved from the VIC-20 to the C64 as VIC software wouldn't run on that and it used a different CPU?

Nothing was stolen!!! AI has licensed the IP to Hyperion, Cloanto, and CUSA. AI is not developing anything. Amiga was a 68k computer developed in the 80's and early 90's by Commodore International. None of these is the amiga or even a real succesor to the amiga.

This is 2011, nothing we have is related other than by license to the real amiga. But we can fight and squable and carry on about stuff we don't like, or we can relax, and like what we like and let others do the same.

[Darrin]

Nothing was stolen!!! AI has licensed the IP to Hyperion, Cloanto, and CUSA. AI is not developing anything. Amiga was a 68k computer developed in the 80's and early 90's by Commodore International. None of these is the amiga or even a real succesor to the amiga.

This is 2011, nothing we have is related other than by license to the real amiga. But we can fight and squable and carry on about stuff we don't like, or we can relax, and like what we like and let others do the same.

There is an active "AMiga" product in the shape of OS4.x.

The "Amiga" name has been hijacked and is being deliberately used to undermine this long time and active product.

C-USA are a bunch of wasters and their actions are disgusting.

What don't you understand?

[commodorejohn]

I think objections have been noted, your opinion has been considered.

Well, except for all the people still repeating the "they have a license!" mantra, yes...

Fine it doesn't have anything to do with Amiga, so freaking what, nothing since 1994 really has a direct link to Amiga anyway.

Not really true, since even OS4 has some basis in the original Amiga, to say nothing of other, more directly-related projects, but even if it were: that makes this okay how?

Something truly totally original has no market. And very little chance to be sold for any kind of a reasonable price.  That is were Natami and all the others are going, there is no bussiness sense in that.

Bullshit. Good products can create their own niche, and while it's certainly difficult to get a new system off the ground, it's probably no more so than creating a market for something that's just "exactly what the competition offers, but in a different case!"

Seriously, those of you with moral, ethical, whatever obejections to this need to get over it. It doesn't appeal to you fine, don't buy it. It is legal, it is going forward, and there are people interest in it. We don't care if it is a real resurrection of the "amiga" whatever you consider that to be.

I'll stop objecting to it when it stops being objectionable, thank you.

[KThunder]

I agree with you that this product isn't for me and I've already stated that here in other threads, just as I have stated I wish CUSA no harm in their business venture.

My only complaint (which I have also stated numerous times) is the use of the Commodore, C64, Amiga & Workbench Brand Names/Trademarks but as CUSA seems to be adamant on using them then I shall continue to express my views on this whenever the subject arises...

Should they have asked you? If they asked everyone in the amiga community they would get different answers from all of us. From what I can see they have every legal right to use these names, and a significant part of the community supports them. That you don't is regrettable, but that is one (rather loud) voice.

I used to give my opinion about OS4 whenever the subject arose, until I realized that my opinion didn't (and shouldn't) matter to the developers, and supporters of OS4. I am not a potential customer and they don't care. My opinion was, and is worthless.

[EDanaII]

Seriously, those of you with moral, ethical, whatever obejections to this need to get over it. It doesn't appeal to you fine, don't buy it. It is legal, it is going forward, and there are people interest in it. We don't care if it is a real resurrection of the "amiga" whatever you consider that to be.

Continuing to harp on this stupid "it's not an amiga" crap is ringing so hollow lately.

Someone seems to have forgotten the Lessons of New Coke:

When you take your products or your services and make them more like your competition, what does that accomplish? If it is a long-standing brand, it leads to trouble with your market. However, it leads to more than that. It removes any real difference between you and your competitors. In the days of New Coke, I switched between New Coke and Pepsi without a thought since to me there was no discernible difference between them. I no longer cared, the only question I had was, “which one is on sale?”

Not all of us are "objecting" on moral/ethical grounds. Some of us are suggesting they make more _strategic_ choices.

[Darrin]

This would have been the "sane" solution for C-USA:

Commodore PCs - a line of C= branded PCs running a variety of off-the-shelf OS's (Win, Linux, etc) or with a blank HD.
Commodore "Classic" PCs - as above, but with a Commodore themed case and AmigaForever/C64 Forever pre-installed with possily USB-Analog joystick adapters, joysticks and games.
Commodore Amiga cases - replacement cases for existing Amiga-like machines (Amiga1000-4000, OS4.x mobos, Minimig solutions, etc)
Commodore Amiga models - A line of Amiga compatable machines using Minimig/FPGA Arcade and eventually Natami supplied with a preconfigured SD Card containing ROMs, WB3.x and games.

Instead, they're up to something evil.

[KThunder]

There is an active "AMiga" product in the shape of OS4.x.

The "Amiga" name has been hijacked and is being deliberately used to undermine this long time and active product.

C-USA are a bunch of wasters and their actions are disgusting.

What don't you understand?

I don't understand how you don't understand that OS4 has as much to do with Amiga as Aros (AI accepts and has even used code from aros) MOS and CUSA. They are all used license. OS4 is not "Amiga" it is a decendant but Aros actually has a more direct link.

The name has not been "hijacked" except by morons that think it is some religious thing that should never be touched except by companies that they approve of.

You are a waster and this nonsense is disgusting. Trashng a company that is legally starting a retro based company.

[Franko]

Should they have asked you? If they asked everyone in the amiga community they would get different answers from all of us. From what I can see they have every legal right to use these names, and a significant part of the community supports them. That you don't is regrettable, but that is one (rather loud) voice.

I used to give my opinion about OS4 whenever the subject arose, until I realized that my opinion didn't (and shouldn't) matter to the developers, and supporters of OS4. I am not a potential customer and they don't care. My opinion was, and is worthless.

Damn right they should have asked me...

Joking aside, I don't see a significant part of the community supporting them both here and on AW and on various reports I've read about CUSA on other sites, quite the opposite in fact.

You make consider by you own words that you opinion on OS4 was worthless but I don't consider my opinions to be worthless to me, otherwise there would be no point in me expressing them...

[KThunder]

Someone seems to have forgotten the Lessons of New Coke:

Not all of us are "objecting" on moral/ethical grounds. Some of us are suggesting they make more _strategic_ choices.

Nothing CUSA could possibly do would appeal to everyone. They are making stratigic choices, except possibly forgetting or not knowing how much of a cult we really are in.

[KThunder]

Damn right they should have asked me...

Joking aside, I don't see a significant part of the community supporting them both here and on AW and on various reports I've read about CUSA on other sites, quite the opposite in fact.

You make consider by you own words that you opinion on OS4 was worthless but I don't consider my opinions to be worthless to me, otherwise there would be no point in me expressing them...

If you aren't a potential customer what are your opinions worth to them. Not much. If you continue expessing them like this? they will, because you will be an enemy.

[Darrin]

If you aren't a potential customer what are your opinions worth to them. Not much. If you continue expessing them like this? they will, because you will be an enemy.

But he could have been if they had a sane business model that didn't involve shafting those who had been keeping the Amiga name alive through the dark years.

[KThunder]

This would have been the "sane" solution for C-USA:

Commodore PCs - a line of C= branded PCs running a variety of off-the-shelf OS's (Win, Linux, etc) or with a blank HD.
Commodore "Classic" PCs - as above, but with a Commodore themed case and AmigaForever/C64 Forever pre-installed with possily USB-Analog joystick adapters, joysticks and games.
Commodore Amiga cases - replacement cases for existing Amiga-like machines (Amiga1000-4000, OS4.x mobos, Minimig solutions, etc)
Commodore Amiga models - A line of Amiga compatable machines using Minimig/FPGA Arcade and eventually Natami supplied with a preconfigured SD Card containing ROMs, WB3.x and games.

Instead, they're up to something evil.

Something evil?!??!?!  HA HA HA freaking... seriously?!

Are you still drunk?

[KThunder]

But he could have been if they had a sane business model that didn't involve shafting those who had been keeping the Amiga name alive through the dark years.

Again, how are they shafting ANYONE? right from the beginning they said they wanted to work with the powers that be, they even considered AROS as an OS. They didnt consider OS4 because there is no way to do that and stay in business.

[Darrin]

Something evil?!??!?!  HA HA HA freaking... seriously?!

Are you still drunk?

No, I'm perfectly sane.  I admit my choice of words is a little colourful, but they're not off the mark.

[dammy]

But he could have been if they had a sane business model that didn't involve shafting those who had been keeping the Amiga name alive through the dark years.

How is he shafting "The Name"?  He's spending millions on the first TV advertising for the C64x, something I don't think C= did for an entire year worth of advertising budget.  So far he's shown off some possible cases for the Amiga series, is that enough for you to damn him and his company for showing off possible cases?  I don't get it, perhaps I shouldn't want to.