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AuthorTopic: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"  (Read 22952 times)

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Offline Louis Dias

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #300 on: March 05, 2020, 02:56:40 PM »
my work is wasted. Thank you so much for that.
I'm not sure why you didn't just package it as a patch for 3.1...it was the whole "here's the entire OS 'we' own it" thing that caused the uproar.  There were Boing Bags for 3.5 and 3.9 ... somehow I doubt you need a license to release those.
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #301 on: March 05, 2020, 03:17:40 PM »
... somehow I doubt you need a license to release those.
You doubt wrong. It is a derived work, and as such thus requires agreement with the copyright holder. The only reason why I could release patches to the Shell and Layers was due to permission. Well, leave alone such details as "getting access to the sources".
 

Offline cgutjahr

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #302 on: March 05, 2020, 03:27:19 PM »
It's a waste on either side, and it is actually triggered by Cloanto this time that my work is wasted. Thank you so much for that.
You knew before you got into this that Hyperion was pirating 1.3 (your words, not mine) - which makes actually cooperating with them on a software project a mind-boggling move to begin with. One that you explained with "I don't have another choice, I want to work on AmigaOS".

And there's dozen of people available who used to work on a Hyperion OS project who could have told you what you were getting into. You just weren't interested in listening. Instead, you reappeared after a 15 year hiatus, showed up here and started to explain to us how all of this works: "This UAE driver is illegal, this P96 SDK project is illegal, the Vampire driver is illegal, Cloanto doesn't have a license to modify 3.x, Cloanto is pirating P96"...

The fact that you showed up here right after negotiations between Ben and Mike failed, to start badmouthing open source again strongly implies you're still relying on 'info' supplied by Ben or by one of his cronies.

If it all blows up, who's fault will that be?

Yep, Cloanto. That makes sense.
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #303 on: March 05, 2020, 03:43:54 PM »
You know what? I just spend more than two years, every night, every weekend, hoping to improve the software, hoping to help users. There is a new P96 you can buy, less bugs, even not as its maintainer. There is an AmigaOs 3.1.4 you can buy. There is a free update you get download. Did that help anyone? Is there a "thank you, well done"?

Nope, you have nothing better to say "It's your fault, you are funding lawers".

I tell you what: I can turn this around: "Every customer of AmigaForever is funding the current mess". Does that make sense to you? Probably not. It is as nonsensical as your statement.

You know, who is killing the system? Cloanto? Hyperion? Neither -guys like you, or Kolla, demotivating anyone who dares to help, by having to cooperate with the wrong side. You demolish everything, motivation, inspiration. You should be ashamed, really.
 
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Offline kolla

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #304 on: March 05, 2020, 04:46:51 PM »
So screwing up the Os 3.1.4 release with dubious “shrink wrap” license, wrongly phrased copyright statements, a kickstart directory with “emulators” in its name, a premature and broken shell, and plenty of OS 3.1 components that had not been touched since 3.1 and hence are not derived work, but the actual work, of intellectual property owned by Cloanto... was our fault? Or even Cloanto’s fault?

Are you also going to blame me for the brilliantly and so utterly well-informed Gulliver is writing on eab that AROS/68k is doomed, because the writing is on the wall - 68k AmigaOS will be open source?

Is it our fault that you decide that anyone who ever speak against you, is a troll?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 04:47:47 PM by kolla »
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
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A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
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A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
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CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #305 on: March 05, 2020, 05:17:30 PM »
So screwing up the Os 3.1.4 release with dubious “shrink wrap” license, wrongly phrased copyright statements, a kickstart directory with “emulators” in its name, a premature and broken shell, and plenty of OS 3.1 components that had not been touched since 3.1 and hence are not derived work, but the actual work, of intellectual property owned by Cloanto... was our fault? Or even Cloanto’s fault?

Is it our fault that you decide that anyone who ever speak against you, is a troll?
You are a troll, kolla, exactly for statements like the above. If you don't see that, I cannot help it. You "forgot" what 3.1.4 brought, an extended intuition, a fixed and faster graphics, a considerably faster layers, fixes in scsi and exec, a more or less new printer.device, a new CD file system, a new crossdos, a new workbench, a HD Toolbox that works for large devices, and a file system that handles big partitions without rebooting, and a "couple" of things I forgot. All of that does not matter to you. You just pick out what you did not like, and where you can *blame* someone.

That, exactly that, makes you a troll.

Not people making mistakes. That is normal. Not fixing problems - that is a problem. Oh, by the way: If there were more components touched, there were more chances to make mistakes. With a small team, you can only touch so and so many things. It is important to keep the work focussed. Exactly not what happens in the open source world.

 
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Offline Louis Dias

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #306 on: March 05, 2020, 05:37:39 PM »
So screwing up the Os 3.1.4 release with dubious “shrink wrap” license, wrongly phrased copyright statements, a kickstart directory with “emulators” in its name, a premature and broken shell, and plenty of OS 3.1 components that had not been touched since 3.1 and hence are not derived work, but the actual work, of intellectual property owned by Cloanto... was our fault? Or even Cloanto’s fault?

Is it our fault that you decide that anyone who ever speak against you, is a troll?
You are a troll, kolla, exactly for statements like the above. If you don't see that, I cannot help it. You "forgot" what 3.1.4 brought, an extended intuition, a fixed and faster graphics, a considerably faster layers, fixes in scsi and exec, a more or less new printer.device, a new CD file system, a new crossdos, a new workbench, a HD Toolbox that works for large devices, and a file system that handles big partitions without rebooting, and a "couple" of things I forgot. All of that does not matter to you. You just pick out what you did not like, and where you can *blame* someone.

That, exactly that, makes you a troll.

Not people making mistakes. That is normal. Not fixing problems - that is a problem. Oh, by the way: If there were more components touched, there were more chances to make mistakes. With a small team, you can only touch so and so many things. It is important to keep the work focussed. Exactly not what happens in the open source world.
You are clearly very talented.  WE need this.
It is my understanding that it is not illegal to take AROS sources and derive from them and repackage them for a paid product.  From what I understand about AROS68k, you can interchange files with AmigaOS.  I would "sell" AROS 68K specific enhancements that might co-incidentally work on 3.1...heck you could compile them for multiple AROS architectures and profit some more.
Also, regarding Kolla...  I think you are looking at him the wrong way.  He is the ultimate quality control department...and he works for FREE!  I would send him all your beta files for testing before anyone else.

I'm a professional coder.  However - I am not good at breaking my own code.  The company I work for has a QA department for this.
Make kolla your QA department...for free of course.   :)

I mean everyone hates their QA/QC department.  :P   ...but we need them...
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 05:41:24 PM by Louis Dias »
 

Offline Gulliver

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #307 on: March 05, 2020, 05:47:04 PM »
I don't live under a rock, in fact, I am in a position that can see things happening that others try to guess. And I am not the only one.
So you can keep guessing all you want, but that does not make it a fact.
Jesus Christ, are you new to this scene? This is 2020 and you're saying in public, with a straight face, "Ben tells me things, so there!".

Trevor is now publicly accusing Ben Hermans of stealing half a million bucks from him, and forging bank documents to hide it. And Gulliver's walking around telling people "A-EON and Hyperion have been cooperating for some time". *facepalm*

I was wondering who Ben would pick as the next Solie. Looks like he has so many applications, he's probably going to run a competition. Hey, maybe you should buy some Hyperion shares? That's going to improve your chances a lot, you know.

I am sorry for you, I have very little contact with your beloved friend Ben.

But hey, you run the biased gossip show, not me, so you can try the guessing game all you want.
 

Offline cgutjahr

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #308 on: March 05, 2020, 06:04:10 PM »
You know, who is killing the system? Cloanto? Hyperion? Neither -guys like you, or Kolla, demotivating anyone who dares to help
So, when you say things like....

"UAE P96 driver is illegal"
"Vampire P96 driver is illegal"
"Cloanto is pirating P96"
"This project to create a free P96 SDK is illegal"
"Cloanto has no license to modify P96"
"The Aminet admin is a lying troll"

... that's just valid criticism. But when I say "you're funding lawyers", I'm killing the system.

Care to explain? Or are you just going to make another dramatic exit?

Offline Orphan264

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #309 on: March 05, 2020, 09:12:53 PM »
the whole "here's the entire OS 'we' own it" thing that caused the uproar. 

Uproar? Uproar? The only uproar I have noticed (CAN NOT AVOID) are the three or four Hyperion-haters in this thread. Over and over and over again.

and again.

At this point I can no longer see whatever point they are trying to make except they hate Hyperion and Thomas (who said himself he didn't want to be a Hyperion employee or contractor or anything, that is why the contributions he made were free. )

Sigh - and now I have done what I told myself I wouldn't. I know it is a complete waste of time to try to teach others courtesy or how to have civil conversation.

Have at it.

Offline Louis Dias

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #310 on: March 06, 2020, 01:52:07 AM »
the whole "here's the entire OS 'we' own it" thing that caused the uproar. 

Uproar? Uproar? The only uproar I have noticed (CAN NOT AVOID) are the three or four Hyperion-haters in this thread. Over and over and over again.

and again.

At this point I can no longer see whatever point they are trying to make except they hate Hyperion and Thomas (who said himself he didn't want to be a Hyperion employee or contractor or anything, that is why the contributions he made were free. )

Sigh - and now I have done what I told myself I wouldn't. I know it is a complete waste of time to try to teach others courtesy or how to have civil conversation.

Have at it.
Actually - until this case - I was pro Hyperion.  It's just when you see patterns...read the leaked transcripts from meetings...  Eventually a picture starts to form and things become clear.  Everyone is free to choose a side.  Me - I want progress...preferably multi-core and perhaps ported natively to the RPi platform.  I had hope for the Vampire but the clowns running that poop-show couldn't understand why I say you'd need a dedicated 3D chip to do 3d and that doing it all in the CPU was the same hubris those fools who made the CELL processor had.  That an all-cpu-based Amiga is not really an Amiga - it's a DRACO.

NOW over a year later, the master-chief is finally coming to the conclusion that his wunder-cpu can't actually do it all AT THE SAME TIME.  Finally the light bulb went on over his head that he'd need a dedicated chip to handle the gazillions of vector math operations required to do 3D any justice.

...but apparently he deemed that I didn't know what I was talking about and how dare I allude to the hubris behind his cpu and got banned...
...I also asked for an enhance AKIKO as a way to offload this work.  The master-chief told me it was a useless chip.
18 months later what do we have?
http://apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=5&note=28256&z=eG_Ga7
The master-chief singing AKIKO's praises...he's even using it to speed up c2p conversion of icons for displaying on SAGA.  Now ain't that something from a stupid idea about a useless chip...?
What the f*ck do I know?  I'm a troll.  Trolls should be banned.

Yep - that's the state of the Amiga 'community'.  People don't know how to take constructive criticism.  Every casual comment you type online gets blown up to 50 on a scale of 10.  That's why face-to-face meetings are important.  So words don't get skewed and intentions misrepresented.  This is why people still have gatherings and events.  Have a drink together.

This is why I think THOR is taking KOLLA the wrong way.  I say use his skills as quality control not as an insult.  Work with him instead of get mad at him.
It's a radical concept I guess...

@thor
All I can say THOR is - don't be like Gunnar.  Take criticism as the constructive type.  Are you coding to please yourself and have everyone sing your praises or are you coding for the sake of us users?  Users are your customers.  Their voice matters.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 02:18:49 AM by Louis Dias »
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #311 on: March 06, 2020, 06:06:01 AM »
Care to explain? Or are you just going to make another dramatic exit?
Care to explain why I should work for folks like you for free? This is just a waste of my time - and by this time unfortunately - also a waste of my health.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #312 on: March 06, 2020, 08:05:11 AM »
now I am confused

I thought you are working for free now

 ???
 

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #313 on: March 06, 2020, 09:41:28 AM »
@Thomas Richter

Not really sure why you've become this public mouthpiece for Hyperion's Classic Development team to be honest. You've taken on a lot and if you enjoy coding and cleaning up bugs in AmigaOS then good for you. I wouldn't feel the need to engage with the community on your work beyond developer updates otherwise the whole court case situation and Hyperion's complete lack of communication with their customers / the community will sadly make you their scapegoat. Thanks for your efforts and I hope Hyperion don't eventually spit you out like they did Steven Solie which I deem a possibility despite you working for free.
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Offline Kremlar

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #314 on: March 06, 2020, 10:31:18 AM »
Is it naive to believe you worked on 3.1.4 for "free" as well?
What do you want to imply? That I'm lying? Thank you so much. It's probably not enough having worked on 3.1.4 without payment (not alone, of course), and having provided freeware over the last 20 years or so, also without payment. What else do you need? Do I need to open up my bank account to prove it? Which type of conspiracy theory comes next?

I'm implying that perhaps you should not assume primary motivation.  I don't know Mike Battalina well, but I did speak with him some at a convention a couple years back.  His motivation was clear to me, and it was not money.

Companies are made to make money. Sweet talk does not change that.

He had his company focused on making money licensing Commodore's IP since even before Hyperion ever existed.

And he is still selling the same repackaged stuff to this very day, instead of giving it away for free.

Talk is cheap.

His motivation is to make money and you are just another one that felt into his PR stunt.

LOL, someone is a bit jaded. 

So, work for something you love and your motives are pure.  Incorporate and track income and expenses for tax purposes and you are in it just for the money.

Everyone wants to make money, but people put time and effort into things for different reasons - whether they profit from it or not.