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Author Topic: Stock traders are idiots.  (Read 5937 times)

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Offline FadeTopic starter

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Stock traders are idiots.
« on: May 11, 2004, 05:41:28 AM »
After watching the financials' on TV today, I have come to the conclusion that people who buy stocks are idiots.

One of the lead stories was about the 900,000 new jobs that were created in the US in the last seven months and what that might possibly do to the economy.

The main thought was, with so many people getting new jobs that the economy was heating up, and Greenspan was bound to raise interest rates soon.

So now the fear is, they might no longer be able to borrow money at fifty year low rates to buy more stocks, and on that fear, the market was down today by 1ΒΌ percent. But that's not all; the rest of the stock buyers in the world apparently decided that if our market went down, then theirs needed to go down even more. related story

There was not one mention of all the new people with jobs that will be buying the products that these stocks are based on.

 Deliver me from idiots.
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Offline whabang

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Re: Stock traders are idiots.
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2004, 06:38:50 AM »
Agreed! People act too fast! :-(
Beating the dead horse since 2002.
 

Offline T_Bone

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Re: Stock traders are idiots.
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2004, 07:44:06 AM »
Damned twitchy daytraders.

Hell, I invest and let the damned investment ride 30 years. What used to be really annoying was this one coworker who used to come to work and talk about how a certain stock was doing EVERY damned day, It was in his IRA for crying out loud! He's not going to touch it untill he retires anyway, so what the hell does it matter what it does from day to day?
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Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: Stock traders are idiots.
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2004, 10:42:05 AM »
And Fade is a troll.
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline Cymric

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Re: Stock traders are idiots.
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2004, 10:56:51 AM »
Quote
whabang wrote:
Agreed! People act too fast! :-(

Seconded. I've always wondered about a law which introduces a minimum time frame in which you can trade to allow markets to properly settle for a bit. I've also wondered about a law which limits access to stock market information---or at least to not tout it all over the major news networks. Stock markets are just a part of the entire economy, but from the press they gather they have become the Supreme Superbeing. Right now we've created a twitchy and nervous monster where the winner is the stock broker with the quickest reflexes, not the one with the best economic insight.
Some people say that cats are sneaky, evil and cruel. True, and they have many other fine qualities as well.
 

Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: Stock traders are idiots.
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2004, 11:03:28 AM »
Quote

Cymric wrote:
Quote
whabang wrote:
Agreed! People act too fast! :-(

Seconded. I've always wondered about a law which introduces a minimum time frame in which you can trade to allow markets to properly settle for a bit.
They already banned computers for 'real-time' trading, because of this, if I am correct.
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline KennyR

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Re: Stock traders are idiots.
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2004, 12:11:38 PM »
Quote
Cymric wrote:
Right now we've created a twitchy and nervous monster where the winner is the stock broker with the quickest reflexes, not the one with the best economic insight.


Welcome to the Free Market. :)

There are two problems with trying to limit the market. One, economic theory is far from perfect and people might even make things worse if the limits are wrongly thought out. Two, there are too many people with the Libertarian/Conservative/Monetarist notion that limiting the market - for any reason - is evil socialism and so will therefore destroy the market.
 

Offline Cymric

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Re: Stock traders are idiots.
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2004, 02:26:42 PM »
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KennyR wrote:
There are two problems with trying to limit the market. One, economic theory is far from perfect and people might even make things worse if the limits are wrongly thought out. Two, there are too many people with the Libertarian/Conservative/Monetarist notion that limiting the market - for any reason - is evil socialism and so will therefore destroy the market.

Well, as far as I am concerned, economists are a bunch of failed applied mathematicians. I've seen MSc-theses which had me lying my head in my lap in abject shock and terror at the thought of those idiots governing the lives of billions. So in that regard I agree with your observation that economic theory is far from perfect, and that tinkering could very well make things worse than they already are. I'm not even sure whether it is possible at all to make the stock markets more robust and less subject to random jitter.

As for the other notion: I have a slight reddish streak in me, so while I think that overall, free markets are a Good Thing they should not be the definitive answer to everything. People should and must govern the market and its structure, and not the other way around. There are other issues to keep in mind besides shareholder value, ROI and making a profit.
Some people say that cats are sneaky, evil and cruel. True, and they have many other fine qualities as well.
 

Offline FluffyMcDeath

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Re: Stock traders are idiots.
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2004, 06:43:17 AM »
Capitalism isn't there to benefit people. It's there for the benefit of those with the gold. Employed people are a liability. The fewer people working for a company, the less people that need to be paid.

As you know, too many people working produces upward wage pressure which leads to rising prices. This is called inflation and is very very bad because it unfairly penalizes people who do not work for a living, i.e. the investing classes who make their money from their money. Anything that makes money worth less is bad. Inflation does not have such a dire effect on workers because their wage is going up so a burgers worth of work today is a burgers worth of work tomorrow. However, if you just live off your money then your buying power decreases over time.

Therefore interest rates must rise. This has two beneficial effects.

a) The investing classes get to make more money when they lend their money out.
b) It makes it harder for companies to grow since loans cost more so they stop adding people.

Another positive effect is that it makes people who are on the verge of bankruptcy fall over the edge which means good deals on real estate, especially if you are one of those people that has a lot of money and don't have to work for a living.

But it does put a damper on the stock market because it means that it will be harder for companies who have to pay more in interest to post good earnings and earnings reports are what stock is all about. The only reason to buy stock is to sell it at a higher price (no sell, no gain). This is not as true of dividend stock, but who does those these days?

If you don't think you'll be able to get a better price for the stock than what you buy it for, you don't buy it.
 

Offline FluffyMcDeath

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Re: Stock traders are idiots.
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2004, 06:18:02 PM »
Quote

Fade wrote:

One of the lead stories was about the 900,000 new jobs that were created in the US in the last seven months and what that might possibly do to the economy.



Seems that not all those jobs are necessarily be real.
soJackson Thoreau doesn't think (whoever he is).
And neither does John Crudele at the New York Post. Could the administration be pressuring the Labor Dept. to inflate the jobs figures? Well, it wouldn't be outside of their modus operandi. They did it with that drug bill, and with the WMD intelligence.

Interesting footnote on the Iraqi Oil embrargo at the bottom of the New York Post article.
 

Offline AccyD

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Re: Stock traders are idiots.
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2004, 06:28:09 PM »
@ Fluffy

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[edit] I assume your post WAS a joke ?
 

Offline FluffyMcDeath

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Re: Stock traders are idiots.
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2004, 06:36:02 PM »
Quote

AccyD wrote:
@ Fluffy

[edit] I assume your post WAS a joke ?

Which post; which part?
 

Offline FluffyMcDeath

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Re: Stock traders are idiots.
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2004, 06:40:09 PM »
Seems that at least some of the jobs are real. There are a large number of jobs being spurred by government spending as in this article.

Interesting to note that (in the latter part of the article) orders are seen to be steady or increasing for at least a year. Is this just to cover continued operations in Iraq after "soveriegnty" is handed over, or are other campaigns in the works?
 

Offline aardvark

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Re: Stock traders are idiots.
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2004, 10:30:38 PM »
Well IMHO after five university economics courses, economics is a crock!  Things that really should (must) be done are not because they are uneconomic; things that shouldn't be done are done because they are economic.  The Capitalist system and the market are poor judges of that which is why we have governments.  Unfortunately too many governments are run by people who got elected by saying they would run government like a business, which they are not. (that is governments are not businesses, not that they aren't being run like one)
P.S. I have a theory which involves manipulating the velocity of money to control inflation instead of changing interest rates if anybody's interested.
 

Offline T_Bone

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Re: Stock traders are idiots.
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2004, 10:36:42 PM »
Quote

FluffyMcDeath wrote:
Capitalism isn't there to benefit people. It's there for the benefit of those with the gold. Employed people are a liability. The fewer people working for a company, the less people that need to be paid.


Wasn't that the transcript from "Volunteers" where Tom Tuttle played by John Candy is brainwashed by the communists?  :lol:

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