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Author Topic: Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...  (Read 10700 times)

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Offline Hammer

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Re: Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...
« Reply #59 from previous page: March 20, 2004, 11:37:06 PM »
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No, MorphOS doesn't need the Amiga name. It needs a big market, more users, more developers, modern hardware, advertising. With all of that, it could go far.

Notice the recent "server watch" news still recognizes Amiga name as an example.

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So far, the name hasn't really effected the people choosing to buy a cheaper Pegasos over an A1, has it??

IF that was the case, Pegasos HW should have romped home over Eyetech's relatively expensive A1-XE/A1-SE.

Quote

It hasn't got people who want x86 to buy one either, has it?

In terms of brand name; the Amiga brand name is simply been crashed by the titans of brand names e.g.
- Intel (Pentium, "Intel Inside"),
- AMD (Athlon, "64bit X86", "AMD Me, "Superior Windows engine"),
- Microsoft (Windows),
- Lindows,
- Dell, HP, VIA, SUN and ‘etc’ .

Support infrastructure is another issue e.g. ISV, education/training, channel support, tools chain, middleware, application/MIS solution providers and etc.
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Offline KennyR

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Re: Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...
« Reply #60 on: March 20, 2004, 11:44:21 PM »
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Hammer wrote:
IF that was the case, Pegasos HW should have romped home over Eyetech's relatively expensive A1-XE/A1-SE.


It could never do that now. There has been too much bitterness, too much FUD and disinformation, and too many people digging their heels in and denouncing Pegasos as the Great Satan. Even if Pegasos got the Amiga name, these people would not buy it. There have been people making pretty sure MOS wouldn't get the clean break it deserved from the first day it was announced.
 

Offline Hammer

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Re: Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...
« Reply #61 on: March 20, 2004, 11:57:36 PM »
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There has been too much bitterness,

It didn’t stop Microsoft and DEC from working together e.g. DEC sued MS for VMS copyright breaches in their Windows NT product. They both signed an agreement that benefits each other.
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Offline KennyR

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Re: Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...
« Reply #62 on: March 21, 2004, 12:17:09 AM »
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Hammer wrote:
It didn't stop Microsoft and DEC from working together e.g. DEC sued MS for VMS copyright breaches in their Windows NT product. They both signed an agreement that benefits each other.


The very idea that the same thing could happen to the Amiga civil war is, at this time, fairly ludicrous. There is no big money incentive to force down the egos. Many of the decisions made since 1999 in the Amiga scene were made just to piss someone else off, that's how bad it is.
 

Offline AmiDelfTopic starter

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Re: Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...
« Reply #63 on: March 21, 2004, 12:23:59 AM »
I just wonder. When you look at this grabb of MorphOS. What do you really think?

----
www.enjoydiary.com/pictures/AmiDelf/morphosmini.jpg
----



Come on. MorphOS is the next generation AmigaOS as much as
AmigaOS4 is. But as said. MorphOS is out for the public. I am actually writing this on my registered and payed Ibrowse v2.3 on MorphOS v1.4

I love this OS and its replacing lots of my future thinking.

I just think. What would happened with the world wich we live in if Windows was that fast and good? I don't want to think that far. It scares me :)

Now go on and support Genesi. Theyre here and MorphOS is out for everyone!

Regards,
Michal, www.amigaworld.org
I love and respect people which care! And not those with
a heart made of stone.
 

Offline NightShade737

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Re: Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...
« Reply #64 on: March 21, 2004, 12:34:56 AM »
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Offline reticuli

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Re: Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...
« Reply #65 on: March 21, 2004, 01:03:10 AM »
Quote

AmiDelf wrote:
What is the reason things is like they are? Amiga users deserves more than this?

Don't you agree with that?


Agreed

Quote

AmiDelf wrote:
Why can't all Amiga developers go tougether and create a webpage on-line wich contains Amiga-MOS developer stuff. Why? Because MorphOS is as much as a AmigaOS as AmigaOS4 is.


Ultimately it won't happen, it can't happen. No matter how similar they are now that similarity won't last. This is why I think this...

The present:

AmigaOS 4 is based on access to the genuine AmigaOS 3.x code. Even if non of that code has made it into AmigaOS 4 the resulting OS will be the result of developers who have been able to see the code of the original and therefore have seen stuff that those attempting to clone it won't have. Because of this, they are more likely to be able to ensure compatibility with earlier software - especially when it comes to quirky software that exploits little known quirks within the OS. Other teams have practically no chance of cloning this area of AmigaOS's behavior without knowing what those quirky applications are, and, even if they did, they would more than likely also need to have access to the quirky applications source code too in order to accurately mimic the behaviour required.

Now we have MorphOS. This is presently an Amiga compatible OS that implements a similar API to earlier versions of AmigaOS in the A-Box portion of the code based predominently on a combination of experience, experimentation, darn hard work and, ultimately, guesswork. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact it's admirable that they have managed to get as far as they have under the circumstances. However, they can never know absolutely everything about the OS they're cloning because they don't have access to that code, so they are very unlikely to ever be able to mimic it as accurately as a team who had direct access to the original source code.

But this is largely irrelevant. Once they are both on the market the initial resulting systems will be largely compatible with existing code. But something else awaits...

... The future:

Considering recent events AmigaOS's future is pretty much unknown at present. Assuming there is a future, best guesses would be they'll expand upon what they've already done with AmigaOS 4 so that the next versions API is as similar as it possibly can be. However, if they plan to address some of the fundamental problems, which I hope they will do, ultimately it will inevitably be sufficiently different.

As for MorphOS... the A-Box is not MorphOS's future. The Q-Box is MorphOS's future and this is the portion that the vast majority of users have absolutely no information about upon which to base any long-term decisions. Best guesses are it will take the best parts of what they have learnt from building the A-Box, mix this up with a lot of new ideas that will make their attempts to build an Amiga-like OS with all the things the team with access to the official AmigaOS code will have difficulty implementing without breaking large parts of it a lot easier and we'll have yet another sufficiently different API.

As time goes by the two teams offerings will inevitably separate still further based in part upon their own ideas for the future of their offerings, in part upon design decisions taken early on that will come back to haunt them and in part upon what they perceive their portion of the market wants.

As this continues eventually any attempt to create any kind of union between the two communities will become largely futile because there is so little in common between the two offerings.

The Fallout:

Faced with growing public confusion at this point the websites will innevitably find themselves faced with a difficult decision that will ultimately result in the survivors amongst them admitting there is a very big difference between them. Each website will then make a choice between the only options left: a) support AmigaOS, b) support MorphOS, c) support both but via separate web presences, or d) shrink into oblivion amid mass confusion.

My prediction is AmigaOS supporters will be left with sites containing the name Amiga while those sites supporting MorphOS, finally proud of MorphOS's achievements in it's own right, will choose to change their names amid confusion from new (rather than existing) MorphOS users who fail to see the connection.

And the split is complete.

May they both live long and prosper and may the current users learn to live with each other in respect.
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Regards reticuli
 

Offline AmiDelfTopic starter

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Re: Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...
« Reply #66 on: March 21, 2004, 01:07:25 AM »
Now it should work ;p


I just wonder. When you look at this grabb of MorphOS. What do you really think?



Come on. MorphOS is the next generation AmigaOS as much as
AmigaOS4 is. But as said. MorphOS is out for the public. I am actually writing this on my registered and payed Ibrowse v2.3 on MorphOS v1.4

I love this OS and its replacing lots of my future thinking.

I just think. What would happened with the world wich we live in if Windows was that fast and good? I don't want to think that far. It scares me :)

Now go on and support Genesi. Theyre here and MorphOS is out for everyone!

Regards,
Michal, www.amigaworld.org
I love and respect people which care! And not those with
a heart made of stone.
 

Offline restore2003

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Re: Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...
« Reply #67 on: March 21, 2004, 01:08:44 AM »
Its os4 with some extra glitter and candles?  :-P
Take the name MorphOS, it should really change name, it`s not catchy at all, not a name the unfamiliars with the os would remember....

And besides, it is too similar to amigaOS to not be looked at as a clone...why not go in another direction with it?

Take its strong points and work further with that :-)

 

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Re: Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...
« Reply #68 on: March 21, 2004, 01:18:48 AM »
@Amidelf,

Quote
Now go on and support Genesi. Theyre here and MorphOS is out for everyone


First, nice screenshot.  You should ADD IT TO THE IMAGE GALLERY :)

Secondly, the quote above is the core reason that strife exists and people are at each others' throats in this community.  You're very much in danger of earning a reputation as a "blue troll" with that one.  (Whenever people mention trolls, I always want to check for a bellybutton jewel and count their toes.  True trolls have four toes on each foot)

That being said, the correct philosophy is;

"MorphOS is here (and it IS good), but support whomever you want."

After all, even though AmigaOS 4 comes with a very, very basic looking install (reminiscent of AmigaOS 3.1), that doesn't mean it can't be changed to match the look and feel of the screenshot you sent within about 20 minutes.

Granted, I haven't actually SEEN AmigaOS4, I'm just guessing, but I think it's a bit silly to promote one OS over an identical one based on how pretty the user has gotten their desktop configured.  In other words, let OS4 get here (someday PLEASE), then let people make rationalized decisions based on their use or views of the future of their chosen platform.  

The AmigaOne/AmigaOS platform has a bunch of strikes against it, but so does the Pegasos/MorphOS combo at this point.  It's too early to try steering people in either direction if they don't want to go.  All I'm saying is.... Let's let AmigaOS come out and the playing field to get a bit more level before we start comparing apples and oranges.

Wayne
 

Offline Dan

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Re: Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...
« Reply #69 on: March 21, 2004, 01:42:35 AM »
Quote

AmiDelf wrote:
Now it should work ;p
I just wonder. When you look at this grabb of MorphOS. What do you really think?

Looks like an Linux/BSD trying to look like MacOSX. :-)
Apple did it right the first time, bring back the Newton!
 

Offline bhoggett

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Re: Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...
« Reply #70 on: March 21, 2004, 01:53:05 AM »
@Kronos

I didn't say Amithlon was the way to a fully native x86-AOS, but it is an example of how x86 and 68k sides can mix, provided there is provision in the design to do so. AROS will have problem implementing this, because it has no provision for it, so while it will give pure native x86 performance, it may never integrate with the 68k side any more than running UAE does.

It's all irrelevant anyway, as I don't see any point in AmigaOS or Amiga-like operating systems any more. The reason? Too primitive and isolated. While something can be done about the primitive part, there is no chance of ever re-joining the mainstream markets.

This thread is another one of the examples of the self-destructive tendency within the community, which extends to the developers too. In a thread that should be about how to co-operate for everyone's benefit, what stands out is the stubborn "I'm right and you're wrong and you'll just have to live with being an outsider" attitude of most posters.

Delusional is the kindest reply I have to most comments here. Sad, but true.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline Hammer

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Re: Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...
« Reply #71 on: March 21, 2004, 02:59:59 AM »
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I just think. What would happened with the world wich we live in if Windows was that fast and good? I don't want to think that far. It scares me :)

Depends on the majority of MS beta program participant’s requests.
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Offline Hammer

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Re: Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...
« Reply #72 on: March 21, 2004, 03:32:21 AM »
Quote

restore2003 wrote:
Its os4 with some extra glitter and candles?  :-P
Take the name MorphOS, it should really change name, it`s not catchy at all, not a name the unfamiliars with the os would remember....

The name MorphOS sounds and looks (from screen shot) like Morphix i.e. yet another Linux distro.

One could take some naming clues from X86 marketing machines e.g.
1. AMD’s Athlon; a combination Greek words (i.e. supreme challenger). An example of marketing made up word.
2.  Intel’s Pentium; fifth generation with metallic “ium” (e.g. Uranium, Radium, Potassium, ‘etc’). Yet another marketing made up word.
3. Transmeta; Yet another marketing made up word.
4. ATI’s Radeon; beyond Rage (graphic chipset precursor to Radeon). Yet another marketing made up words.
5. NVIDIA/nForce; “n” stands for “nth”.
6. Lindows; Linux for Wintel desktop PC. A play on Windows and Linux words.

The name "MorphOS" doesn’t sound unique enough.
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Offline AmiDelfTopic starter

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Re: Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...
« Reply #73 on: March 21, 2004, 05:00:30 AM »
Heh...


I actually like it's name. Its nice and blue butterfly.. Why not? Its much more spirit in that than the windows logo :)

There would be a nice logo if the blue butterfly could sit on the boingball someday :)

Let's go tougether back into how it all was before. I am as most of you are tired of all the slandring. Why can't we just go for what we have now. And now we have MorphOS.

Regards,
Michal, www.amigaworld.org
I love and respect people which care! And not those with
a heart made of stone.
 

Offline QuikSanz

Re: Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...
« Reply #74 on: March 21, 2004, 05:07:01 AM »
@AmiDelf,

"Its nice and blue butterfly.. Why not? Its much more spirit in that than the windows logo :)"

It reminds me of an MSN commercial!

Chris