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AuthorTopic: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"  (Read 15815 times)

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guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #210 on: February 23, 2020, 08:40:11 PM »
All Cloanto has done is keep Amiga alive by selling legal ROMs and paying for improvements to those ROMs and other system files over time.  Hence the 3.X OS designation...as in 3.10 because X=10 because it's an improvement over 3.9.
As in "very little". There's quite a bit more that improved in 3.1.4 compared to the Cloanto 3.X patch-up job. Concerning the "legality", I believe this is just want the process is about, so it is a bit premature to judge.

All Hyperion has done is keep the platform down in litigation and not pay developers.
For 4.x? I don't think anyone is keeping it down. Hyperion had another plan with the AmigaOs sources - the 4.X PPC thing. While you may disagree with this goal, and so do I, it does not mean "keeping the platform down" if the development target disagrees. As for "payment", I already said that I do not want anything in compensation, neither do I want anything from Cloanto. It is sometimes harder to earn money than to spend it. Please accept my choice, but I do not want to be in the position of having to justify of getting bribed by anyone, neither Cloanto nor Hyperion.

The choice for Hyperion was due to accessibility of sources, as by the settlement agreement, and physical accessibility to the sources and its subversion repository, and a built environment. Cloanto cannot offer anything like that.

I think someone has "battered abuser syndrome".
I believe you have expressed your sympathies, which is fine, but please allow me to speak for myself. You have split the world into "good and evil", where in reality, things are a bit more complicated than that.

Offline number6

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #211 on: February 23, 2020, 09:48:03 PM »
If someone tries to rob you and you resist, that doesn't make you the aggressor.
Excuse for being confused, but who is robbing whom here? Let me recapitulate: Hyperion and a couple of folks start creating Os 4, while Amiga Inc. is trying its luck with AmigaDE, a "me, too" product of Java, and fails, quite unsurprisingly.

Then Amiga Inc. claims that AmigaOs 4 is their property, after Amiga DE fails. Hyperion goes to court, against AmigaInc, Amiga Inc. goes bankrupt, transfering ownership to Amigo (or what's is name), renaming this enterprise again to Amiga. Then Amiga and Hyperion settle, creating the settlement agreement for ongoing development of AmigaOs. Then, Amiga Inc. sells again its "property" to Cloanto. So I really wonder who is the thief in all this epic novel. If you want to point fingers, Amiga Inc. seems to be a much more suitable target for that, having two victims.

Amigo (or what's is name)? You mean Garry Hare's KMOS. And it was renamed back to Amiga Inc., not Amiga.
btw-you skipped all events from settlement 2009 until the recent sale.

#6
 

Offline utri007

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #212 on: February 23, 2020, 09:49:39 PM »
Hyperion and a couple of folks start creating Os 4, while Amiga Inc. is trying its luck with AmigaDE, a "me, too" product of Java, and fails, quite unsurprisingly.

Then Amiga Inc. claims that AmigaOs 4 is their property, after Amiga DE fails. Hyperion goes to court, against AmigaInc, Amiga Inc. goes bankrupt, transfering ownership to Amigo (or what's is name), renaming this enterprise again to Amiga. Then Amiga and Hyperion settle, creating the settlement agreement for ongoing development of AmigaOs. Then, Amiga Inc. sells again its "property" to Cloanto. So I really wonder who is the thief in all this epic novel. If you want to point fingers, Amiga Inc. seems to be a much more suitable target for that, having two victims.

Nice short summary

Otherwise this thread is most boring nonsense, certainly not of what title says.
 
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Offline redfox

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #213 on: February 23, 2020, 11:11:23 PM »
Oh yeah, the AInc(W)->ITEC->KMOS->MKOS->AInc(D) shell game...

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Offline Minuous

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #214 on: February 23, 2020, 11:18:48 PM »
All Cloanto has done is keep Amiga alive by selling legal ROMs and paying for improvements to those ROMs and other system files over time.  Hence the 3.X OS designation...as in 3.10 because X=10 because it's an improvement over 3.9.

That's nonsense. I have not seen anywhere where they claim it is supposed to be version three point ten. You can even check their page at https://www.amigaforever.com/kb/15-107 where no such claim is made. Also you can check the version numbers and dates of OS3.X components to see that they are just various random old versions thrown together.

Please tell me how their frankenstein mess of mismatched obsolete OS components is an improvement over 3.9. Anyone can take 3.9, remove half and overwrite half of what remains with with 3.5 versions, causing all kinds of compatibility issues for users and developers. That's more like vandalism than software development. And they certainly haven't improved any part of the OS themselves; what component are you claiming they have upgraded? They don't have source code for any AmigaOS version (including "their" AmigaOS 3.X) nor apparently any Amiga developers on their staff.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 05:45:08 AM by Minuous »
 

Offline kolla

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #215 on: February 24, 2020, 05:40:00 AM »
Yes, Mr “let’s ship whatever new we find in the leaked source archive with BB3+4”, you are so much better yourself.
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Offline Louis Dias

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #216 on: February 24, 2020, 06:00:22 AM »
Why call it 3.X then?  Why not 3.10?  Seems they were ahead of the naming convention game even before OS X from Apple...
 

Offline kolla

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #217 on: February 24, 2020, 09:00:52 AM »
Why call it 3.X then?  Why not 3.10?  Seems they were ahead of the naming convention game even before OS X from Apple...

Because why not, because X does not indicate any number in particular, but rather signals "whatever".
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Offline ronniebeck

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #218 on: February 24, 2020, 09:32:18 AM »
I read the latest court papers and I am wondering why anyone thought this was close to being settled.  Seems in the eyes of the courts it is anything but.

I like AROS.  I have been testing the vampire focused pre-made AROS image and it is a really nice environment to use and feels very feature rich.  A built-in TCP stack and a very tidy desktop.  In many respects, it feels like a step up from WB3.9.  I really like it.  As a user, I don't see why I couldn't use it for my Amiga.  I can understand it isn't everyone's cup of tea.  Heck there are those refuse to move past WB 1.3!

I suspect that some of the resistance to an Open Source Amiga OS might just simply be fear of the unknown.  It is really hard to substatiate any claim about what would happen because the Amiga past has been so closed source and there is little precident.  I am personally for Open Source.  Companies come and go.  Developers too.  And when they go, the knowledge and source code sometimes go with them.  Ope source could preserve that.  The Amiga is most alive in those who love using it and contributing to it.  Let it be kept alive openly by those who care for it the most.  And many of those people are writting pationately in this thread.

@Thomas Richter:  embrass the trolls! They are your biggest fans.  In the end, you love them as much as they love you.  Else you would have left this thread long ago.

Offline kolla

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #219 on: February 24, 2020, 10:07:17 AM »
The "fear of open source" is now at the point that if it happens, certain somones would have to swallow so many camels and back-paddle so many harsh statements that they perhaps would find it impossible to participate or contribute.

Then there was this:
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=1375937&postcount=71

Regarding AROS/68k...
Quote
The problem is that eventually after an greement is reached, or any party wins the legal case, I am pretty sure AmigaOS 68k will be open sourced anyway. Both Hyperion and Cloanto have publicly mentioned this in the past.

So for AROS on 68k, the countdown has already started even if no one is noticing it. The writing is on the wall.

So Gulliver here, who is an "official OS-3.2 team member" as far I can tell (I feel like putting quotation marks around all the words there) is of the opinion that AmigaOS will be open sourced anyways, regardless of who wins the court case. If this is true, great. But perhaps this was just another groundless jab of FUD at AROS.
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Offline Brian Hoskins

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #220 on: February 24, 2020, 10:58:34 AM »
Quote from: ronniebeck
I am personally for Open Source.  Companies come and go.  Developers too.  And when they go, the knowledge and source code sometimes go with them.  Ope source could preserve that.

I am quite ambivalent about the prospect of open source for AmigaOS.

On the one hand, it is pretty difficult to argue against the points you make in favour of it.  If nothing else, the preservation factor alone is a huge positive.  Then there's the potential extra contribution that it could draw from software developers in the wider community.

I think we would need the open source project to be at least controlled by a trustworthy organisation for it to have any chance of success.  You still need decision makers, even on an open source project.

But here's where we run into a big problem, I think.  If history is anything to go by, it will prove very difficult to get groups of people in the community to agree on things.  The development roadmap for AmigaOS would be a pretty potent source of disagreement, I think.
If that happens, you'll end up with a separate group of individuals, unhappy with the direction/progress of the current open source AmigaOS stewards, breaking off and developing their own fork.

Before you know it, we're back to an 'us vs them' issue on the two forks.  Maybe an 'us vs them vs others' if there are even more forks.

You can see how this could end up quite messy quite quickly.

Do you agree with this concern?
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #221 on: February 24, 2020, 11:22:19 AM »
Companies come and go.  Developers too.
Yes, but "closed source" does not mean "companies". What I believe would be ideal would be some kind of "foundation" that becomes the formal owner of the code, and that defines in a board a direction, makes decisions, and gives out development jobs for developers while at the same time collects opinions by handing out RFCs. Companies sell the product, and by that finance the foundation, which could finance it developers. This should be IMHO a "non-profit" organization.

I believe this is an ideal compromize: The sources are kept together, decisions can be made openly and transparently, the thing can be funded.

Actually, this is not at all so different from the "ISO" or "IETF" model I know. It may be a bit slow (especially on the ISO side with all its overhead), but it is workable.
And when they go, the knowledge and source code sometimes go with them.  Ope source could preserve that.
Open Source does not preserve knowledge. Documentation does. Open source just means that the same errors are made over and over again. Of course documentation means that it needs someone to write it down, and as this is a job a typical developer does not like to do, it may require some form of compensation. The compensation could come from companies paying into such a foundation for the "licenses" to sell it.

Thus, I strongly believe that the whole thing requires more organization than an open source model could deliver.

Offline number6

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #222 on: February 24, 2020, 12:35:32 PM »
@ronniebeck

Quote
I read the latest court papers and I am wondering why anyone thought this was close to being settled.

Because this thread's beginning was based on the WDC chief judge Martinez's statements in the court documents of January 31, and not the documents you just read from February.
Quote
Business representatives of Hyperion, Cloanto, and C-A Acquisitions, Inc. have been
engaged in several days of intensive face-to-face settlement discussions in Europe geared toward a
global resolution of all claims, including the claims alleged in Case No. 19-cv-00683-RSM.
Hyperion, Cloanto, and C-A Acquisitions, Inc. are finalizing changes to a negotiated term sheet,
which they anticipate will soon be executed.
Source

#6

Edit: changed "head" to "chief" for sake of accuracy in the judge's title
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 04:31:13 PM by number6 »
 

Offline kolla

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #223 on: February 24, 2020, 02:13:27 PM »
Do you agree with this concern?

No - and closed source does not prevent this either.
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Offline kolla

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #224 on: February 24, 2020, 02:22:27 PM »
@Thomas Richter

Let me remind you that the topic here is a hobby operating system, which primary function is to be pretty to look at and launch old games - what you describe is just utter overkill. FFS...

Holy crap what a flashback - open amiga, an amiga council... this did not work 20 years ago, and will certainly not work now.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 02:26:51 PM by kolla »
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---
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CDTV
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Peg1, SAM460 and Mac minis with MorphOS