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Author Topic: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4  (Read 148511 times)

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Offline mongo

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #254 from previous page: August 17, 2017, 10:55:26 AM »
Quote from: psxphill;829677
No, it's exactly what was written. I cannot be held responsible if english is not your first language.


English is my first language. You're wrong.

Quote from: psxphill;829677
Here is another analogy: "I enjoy going out without my phone". It's safe to infer that you don't enjoy going out WITH your phone, or you'd write the sentence differently.


No. It's not safe to infer that at all. It is totally possible to enjoy going out without your phone and enjoy going out with your phone. Also, that statement in no way implies that you hate your phone, as you seem to think.
 

Offline Linde

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #255 on: August 17, 2017, 11:07:48 AM »
Quote from: psxphill;829677
No, it's exactly what was written. I cannot be held responsible if english is not your first language.


I'm not sure "exactly" means what you think it means. Niding never even used the word "hate" and a reasonable person would not draw the conclusion that he does. You're the outlier here, and it's not because you're exceptionally good at English.

Quote from: psxphill;829677
Here is another one: "I enjoy going out without my phone". I think it's safe to infer that you don't enjoy going out WITH your phone.


Here are a couple of other examples: I enjoy taking a bath, I enjoy a cold beer and I enjoy being awake. Is it safe to infer that mean I *hate* not taking a bath, *hate* not drinking and *hate* sleeping? Because it's true that I like all those things, but somehow I'm not a wrinkled, sleep deprived alcoholic. Maybe you can help me figure this out, since English is not my first language. Apparently, one can use the English language to take a baseless illogical conclusion and turn it into "exactly what was written" without a hint of reasoning. You must teach me this magic language.

Quote from: psxphill;829677
You either meant what you said or you didn't, however being so defensive about it makes it sound like I was right.


To whom? I am pretty sure that you only speak for yourself in this matter, and why should anyone care what you think?
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #256 on: August 17, 2017, 11:15:35 AM »
Quote from: mongo;829679
No. It's not safe to infer that at all. It is totally possible to enjoy going out without your phone and enjoy going out with your phone. Also, that statement in no way implies that you hate your phone, as you seem to think.

If you enjoyed both then you wouldn't bother specifying it, OR expect that people who do understand english would not be able to understand you.

Quote from: Linde;829680
I'm not sure "exactly" means what you think it means. Niding never even used the word "hate" and a reasonable person would not draw the conclusion that he does.

He didn't use the word hate, but it's an antonym of enjoy. Which he implied in the way he wrote the sentence.

Quote from: Linde;829680
To whom? I am pretty sure that you only speak for yourself in this matter, and why should anyone care what you think?

Ah, so it's ok to bully the person who bothers to learn english. Gotcha.

Quote from: Linde;829680
Here are a couple of other examples: I enjoy taking a bath, I enjoy a cold beer and I enjoy being awake. Is it safe to infer that mean I *hate* not taking a bath, *hate* not drinking and *hate* sleeping?

No it's not safe to infer that, but your analogies aren't relevant as they don't cover the "without ...".

If he'd said "I enjoy Workbench RTG/HDMI" then that is equivalent to "I enjoy taking a bath".

If you said "I enjoy taking a bath without hot water" then it changes when you enjoy taking the bath to only include the times there is no hot water.

If you meant something like "I can enjoy taking a bath without hot water", "I sometimes enjoy taking a bath without hot water" or "I prefer taking a bath without hot water". Then you should say so. If instead the temperature of the water is irrelevant, then it's weird to even mention it.

Words mean something, it's impossible to know if someone used the wrong words or meant what they wrote. If you're vague then don't get defensive if someone questions what you meant. It's pretty pointless to guess what someone means and then argue that that is what they definitely meant.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 11:49:19 AM by psxphill »
 

Offline Djole

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #257 on: August 17, 2017, 11:46:08 AM »
I hate Indivision ! It sucks, Vampire HDMI out is much better... :P
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Offline BSzili

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #258 on: August 17, 2017, 11:59:06 AM »
Quote from: Niding;829671
Thats because you seemingly dont want to read what many has been saying;

-I enjoy being able to run Workbench RTG/Thru HDMI without Indivision.
-I enjoy the responsive Workbench.
-I enjoy the productivity + music in the background without the system grinding to a halt.

Im not a developer or a poweruser, so my list probably seems like "lol", but Im pretty sure userfriendliness and responsiveness of the system is a BIG positive for most people.

Ofcourse its a mixed bag for developers based on what Ive read. More powerful design, but lackluster in development tools for the Vampire spesific core features. I get that.

I guess you could respond with "The points you listed you could get from WinUAE and Amikit!" or "a beefed up A4000 with xyz cards would be able to deliver the same".
Yes, but at what pricetag?
Emulation is free ofcourse, but A4000 and legacy hardware, nope.
Thanks for proving my point :lol:
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Offline Niding

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #259 on: August 17, 2017, 12:09:42 PM »
@BSzili

How so?

Just cause some of us, like myself, isnt developers, it invalidates what Vampire brings to the table? The performance boost and memory is on its own a big sellingpoint (again, for me).

Does the current lack of compiler support of different flavours (other than asm) invalidate the features of the core itself? The potential is there, but not utilized unless you are familiar with ASM (correct me if Im wrong, thats my impression).

I would personally like to see higher level languages like Hollywood support/have plugins for Vampire. But again, the raw performance boost thru processing power is enough to make good use of Hollywood.

The way you comment basically signals to me "Thanks for proving my point, but by the way, we should all ditch all Amiga flavours (hardware and OS), cause Wintel does it all better! Be it AROS, Morphos, AOS etc.
I assume thats not what you are saying tho.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 12:14:16 PM by Niding »
 

Offline kolla

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #260 on: August 17, 2017, 12:16:29 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;829677
No, it's exactly what was written.


Oh shut up, butthead, stop being such a dumbass - the quote was...

Quote

what many has been saying;

-I enjoy being able to run Workbench RTG/Thru HDMI without Indivision.


Niding was paraphrasing Vampire users, not stating an opinion.
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Offline Djole

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #261 on: August 17, 2017, 12:23:51 PM »
Quote from: BSzili;829669
It's very strange that people who say "buy it for the existing features" have no answer to this ;)


Is it that hard to read about the features on the official site ?

Or should Gunnar pay a visit to every Amiga user and draw it out to them ?
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Offline kolla

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #262 on: August 17, 2017, 12:24:11 PM »
Quote from: BSzili;829669
It's very strange that people who say "buy it for the existing features" have no answer to this ;)


Because there is no answer to this, there is nowhere to point for info.
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Offline kolla

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #263 on: August 17, 2017, 12:27:27 PM »
Quote from: Djole;829686
Is it that hard to read about the features on the official site ?

And which site is that?

I thought http://www.apollo-accelerators.com - but Gunnar said information there is questionable at best, because it is maintained by volunteers outside the team.

Also - it not at all updated.

Quote
Or should Gunnar pay a visit to every Amiga user and draw it out to them ?

No, he should just maintain a relevant feature list, very much like
http://www.apollo-core.com/index.htm?page=features

The product page
http://www.apollo-core.com/index.htm?page=products
does not spell out features in any meaningful way.
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Offline jj

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #264 on: August 17, 2017, 12:30:04 PM »
Quote from: Djole;829682
I hate Indivision ! It sucks, Vampire HDMI out is much better... :P

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Offline Djole

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #265 on: August 17, 2017, 12:33:19 PM »
Quote from: kolla;829688
And which site is that?

I thought http://www.apollo-accelerators.com - but Gunnar said information there is questionable at best, because it is maintained by volunteers outside the team.

Also - it not at all updated.



No, he should just maintain a relevant feature list, very much like
http://www.apollo-core.com/index.htm?page=features

The product page
http://www.apollo-core.com/index.htm?page=products
does not spell out features in any meaningful way.


I am sure you are aware of the HW features. You can read more about the softcore here: http://wiki.apollo-accelerators.com/doku.php/start

And you can always visit the IRC channel and communicate with the team directly....
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Offline Linde

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #266 on: August 17, 2017, 12:35:17 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;829681
If you enjoyed both then you wouldn't bother specifying it, OR expect that people who do understand english would not be able to understand you.


What if you enjoy both but one more than the other? Does that case simply not exist in your world?

Quote from: psxphill;829681
He didn't use the word hate, but it's an antonym of enjoy. Which he implied in the way he wrote the sentence.


All right, so not doing something automatically implies the antonym, gotcha. That's flawless reasoning. I am not searching for my remote control, so I am hiding it. The glass isn't empty, so it is full. You're not my husband, so you're my wife.

Quote from: psxphill;829681
Ah, so it's ok to bully the person who bothers to learn english. Gotcha.


I'm asking you why we should care what you think. No one agrees with you and you haven't been able to make a single reasonable point in your favor, so the question is an honest call for you to give us sufficient reason to care about your opinion, not made with the intention to bully.


Quote from: psxphill;829681
No it's not safe to infer that, but your analogies aren't relevant as they don't cover the "without ...".


But that shouldn't matter, since the antonym of "enjoy" is "hate," right? Your reasoning isn't only flawless, it's consistent too, right? Let's for a moment assume your magical system of logic, though, and think of some more examples that further cement your impeccable reasoning and outstanding comprehension of English. How about: I enjoy walking without a particular destination, I enjoy drinking soda without a straw, I enjoy resting without a care in the world and I enjoy bathing without bath salts. Again, all apply to me and of course I absolutely hate going places, drinking soda without a straw, having responsibilities and bath salts. Those are obviously the worst things I can think of! Can you help me with this English language thing now?

It must be fun setting up your own personal system of semantics with convoluted criteria that no one else agrees with just to be rude to someone on an Amiga forum. The fact remains that this is what *you* think, and I can only imagine the awkward situations you must have ended up in throughout your life if you actually apply this consistently.

Quote from: psxphill;829681
Words mean something, it's impossible to know if someone used the wrong words or meant what they wrote. If you're vague then don't get defensive if someone questions what you meant. It's pretty pointless to guess what someone means and then argue that that is what they definitely meant.


You didn't question what he meant. You decided that he meant that he hated the Indivision and asked a different question based on that assumption. Even after Niding explained what he meant you insist on your esoteric interpretation although no one else does. Again, you're the outlier here, and the basis of language is consensus.
 

Offline jj

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #267 on: August 17, 2017, 12:35:21 PM »
Quote:
      Originally Posted by Niding
 -I enjoy being able to run Workbench RTG/Thru HDMI without Indivision.

 
 
Quote from: psxphill;829672
Why do you hate Indivision?

I do not know anyone who would infer that, from that sentence.  I think it would be safe to assume that using the vampire is a better/more enjoyable experience, not that the person hates Indivision.
 
 That is some truly impressive purposeful misinterpretation of that sentence.
 
 The best you could infer is that using Indiviison  with HDMI is not enjoyable,  which is a country mile away from hate
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Offline BSzili

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Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #268 on: August 17, 2017, 01:18:59 PM »
Quote from: Djole;829686
Is it that hard to read about the features on the official site ?

Or should Gunnar pay a visit to every Amiga user and draw it out to them ?
If by official site you mean http://apollo-accelerators.com, then the information there "less than accurate" according to the Apollo Team. If you are talking about http://www.apollo-core.com, then you probably don't know that the features listed there doesn't reflect what the Vampire has, because they are separate products. This information also comes from the Apollo Team, it's from this very forum.
If you have any other "official website" which has a list of features the Vampire currently has, please share it with us.
This is just like television, only you can see much further.
 

Offline kolla

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #269 on: August 17, 2017, 02:22:24 PM »
Quote from: Djole;829691
I am sure you are aware of the HW features. You can read more about the softcore here: http://wiki.apollo-accelerators.com/doku.php/start

And you can always visit the IRC channel and communicate with the team directly....


... where Gunnar will tell you not to trust anything on the wiki you mention.
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