Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: It's been a long time  (Read 9247 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline wawrzon

Re: It's been a long time
« Reply #44 from previous page: May 01, 2017, 11:47:48 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;825202
I can get behind the idea of replacing my legacy hardware with a well designed fpga system.

i woulnt want to replace my amigas with whatever. but to each heir own. its nice to actually have the options, without being outright forced into anything.
 

Offline Terminills

  • Grand Conspirator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2003
  • Posts: 594
  • Country: 00
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • Show only replies by Terminills
Re: It's been a long time
« Reply #45 on: May 01, 2017, 09:02:24 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;825193
No paranoia (you have to be afraid of something to be paranoid) or potshots (a comment needs to be unjustified to call it that).

Just a different point of view.

AND, from my point of view, compared to PPC NG, AROS IS crap.

AROS is crap?  Please enlighten me as to how so.

Quote

AND ARM can't even offer me a decent PCIe equipped motherboard.

About $300 for a PCIe X4 slot (usually compact M2) OR about $800 for a board with a full sized slot (AND usually with all that development board quality fruitiness "baked" right in).

erm closer to $192 for an nvidia arm dev board which does include a mini pcie slot.

Quote
I'll stick with my legacy hardware supplemented my NG.

That's fine stop bashing my personal choice since I can point out many places where MY CRAP choice demolishes your choice.

Quote
I may be typing this on my i7 laptop (WITH Win10), BUT, I could just as easily do that on my iBook under MorphOS.

And YES, I COULD do that with AROS, IF Win10 or Ubuntu Mate wasn't a better solution.

Ubuntu mate is also a better choice than either AOS4 or MorphOS so what's your point?

Quote
Also, I wasn't kidding about the video card, I'm looking forward to buying a cheap RX 560.  But that is going to cost more than the i5 system you are quoting.

As someone who has 6 RX 480's for mining.  I would say your price estimate for the 560 is high.  The RX 550 and the RX 460 are already a sub $100 cards(The RX 560 should be around the same price as the 460).

Ironically my AROS system which I also use for mining has $1200 worth of video cards.  Now for the full cost of this system.

6 RX 480 5, 4 gig and 1, 8 gig.  $1200
32 GB of Ram $300
FX 9570 $200
MSI AM3+ motherboard $150
Bluray recorder $80
1TB ssdd $200
Case $60
So total price is $2190  brand new and still cheaper than a complete X5000.

The multicore branch not only see's all the memory and cores it uses them.  
I'm pretty sure there's not one MorphOS or AOS4 machine that can compare to the performance.  So I will take my 64 Bit AROS and enjoy it.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 09:11:32 PM by Terminills »
Support AROS sponsor a developer.

edited by mod: this has been addressed
 

Offline Iggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 5348
    • Show only replies by Iggy
Re: It's been a long time
« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2017, 09:27:12 PM »
Quote from: Terminills;825224
AROS is crap?  Please enlighten me as to how so.

How long was that in beta again?

Quote from: Terminills;825224
erm closer to $192 for an nvidia arm dev board which does include a mini pcie slot.

Still too high, I can get a full sized X64 system with a full sized PCIe slot for less, and people are giving away PPC Macs.

Quote from: Terminills;825224
That's fine stop bashing my personal choice since I can point out many
places where MY CRAP choice demolishes your choice.

Until you try to run 68K software, which because you OS is wrong endian means you have to emulate everything.
And btw, when we move to X64, you are going to look even worse, because our developers are better than yours. ;-)
(you should take that lightly)

Quote from: Terminills;825224
Ubuntu mate is also a better choice than either AOS4 or MorphOS so what's your point?

For an OS with a monolithic kernel its not bad, certainly a better use of an X64 OR PPC cpu than our operating systems. But what's YOUR point, as it isn't Amigan.

Quote from: Terminills;825224
As someone who has 6 RX 480's for mining.  I would say your price estimate for the 560 is high.  The RX 550 and the RX 460 are already a sub $100 cards(The RX 560 should be around the same price as the 460).

Personally, I anticipate the RX 560 to be right at the $99 mark, as its certainly better than an RX 550 or 460.
And if I wanted an RX 480, they start at about $180 for the 4GB versions (often with a rebate).
But I don't game or doing anything like bitcoin mining (which just sounds like a waste of hardware and electricity for the meager returns), so an RX 560 will be fine.

In the meanwhile, I promise not to be so harsh on AROS, as it is my second favorite NG OS (and I have friends in the AROS development community like Staf Verhagen).
I just get tired of fishy's bullshirt.

Its a freakin' hobby, spend your money on whatever you want.
Just don't give me a hard time for my choices.

After all, I'm not one of those lunatics that thinks Amiga is going to make some kind of miraculous re-emergence. :rofl:
That train left the station near the turn of the century.

Quote from: wawrzon;825206
i woulnt want to replace my amigas with whatever. but to each heir own. its nice to actually have the options, without being outright forced into anything.

Eh, I kept a CD32 for gaming, and an A2000 for productivity apps.
I wouldn't mind an A1200 or A4000,  but they are getting too expensive.
AND all the legacy hardware IS aging.

Unless I want to buy one of the German boards or wait for Jens to build new A1200s, fpga is the only way to get NEW legacy hardware (and it runs BETTER).
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 09:54:46 PM by Iggy »
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Terminills

  • Grand Conspirator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2003
  • Posts: 594
  • Country: 00
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • Show only replies by Terminills
Re: It's been a long time
« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2017, 09:52:16 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;825226
How long was that in beta again?


AROS will always be in beta but that doesn't change the fact that in many ways it's more advanced than the other NG OSes.

Quote

Still too high, I can get a full sized X64 system with a full sized PCIe slot for less, and people are giving away PPC Macs.


Of course it's too high.   Personally I have no interest in ARM however for the price it's a neat little toy.

Quote


Until you try to run 68K software, which because you OS is wrong endian means you have to emulate everything.

I'll take my winuae sandbox in abiv1 which may even eventually be able to sandbox AOS4 ;)

Quote

And btw, when we move to X64, your going to look even worse, because our developers are better than yours.

Sure they are I mean they already have 64 bit suppo... oh wait no they don't.  Well at least they have Multicore showing li... Oh wait nope not there either.  Well they they at least have the newest version of webkit in their Odyssey ... Oh nope.   Well then they certainly had wpasupplicant ported firs... damn again I was wrong.  See this game goes both ways.  

Sure there are some immensely talented MorphOS developers I will never deny that.  However the my epenis is bigger than yours is a joke.

Quote

For an OS with a monolithic kernel its not bad, certainly a better use of an X64 OR PPC cpu than our operating systems. But what's YOUR point, as it isn't Amigan.


Easy you brought it up so my comparison is fair. ;)

Quote

Personally, I anticipate the RX 560 to be right at the $99 mark, as its certainly better than an RX 550 or 460.
And if I wanted an RX 480, they start at about $180 for the 4GB versions (often with a rebate).
But I don't game or doing anything like bitcoin mining (which just sounds like a waste of hardware and electricity for the meager returns), so an RX 560 will be fine.


I certainly do ok with mine. ;)

Quote

Its a freakin' hobby, spend your money on whatever you want.
Just don't give me a hard time for my choices.

I feel the same way and frankly get sick of the BS.

Quote

After all, I'm not one of those lunatics that thinks Amiga is going to make some kind of miraculous re-emergence. :rofl:
That train left the station near the turn of the century.


That train left the day Commodore went belly up.

Quote

Eh, I kept a CD32 for gaming, and an A2000 for productivity apps.
I wouldn't mind an A1200 or A4000,  but they are getting too expensive.
AND all the legacy hardware IS aging.


I have a few A1200 and A4000's if you're ever in NY.   I can even show you the A4000 developer box I have.

Quote

Unless I want to buy one of the German boards or wait for Jens to build new A1200s, fpga is the only way to get NEW legacy hardware (and it runs BETTER).

I do want a GBA1000 personally I think it would be a fun project.
Support AROS sponsor a developer.

edited by mod: this has been addressed
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: It's been a long time
« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2017, 11:01:00 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;825226
Until you try to run 68K software, which because you OS is wrong endian means you have to emulate everything.


funny thing, im pretty sure, that as soon as morphos or os4 was ported to x86, you would call that a necessary and advanced feature.

good thing is that aros is endian agnostic. you certainly know on an amiga it runs amiga software without any emulation whatsoever. have fun with your further nitpicking.
 

Offline Iggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 5348
    • Show only replies by Iggy
Re: It's been a long time
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2017, 11:03:21 PM »
@Terminills

We seem to be on the same page here.
Its a freakin' hobby.

If you get a bug under your skin and want to blow some money, go for it.

But don't proselytize.
'Cause if it comes right down to it, when I need somethin' practical, I still need to use Linux, Android, Windows, or MacOS. :)
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 5348
    • Show only replies by Iggy
Re: It's been a long time
« Reply #50 on: May 01, 2017, 11:06:44 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;825231
funny thing, im pretty sure, that as soon as morphos or os4 was ported to x86, you would call that a necessary and advanced feature.

good thing is that aros is endian agnostic. you certainly know on an amiga it runs amiga software without any emulation whatsoever. have fun with your further nitpicking.


Ah, we're movin' that way, whether I like it or not.
I kinda liked PPCs.
But they ARE dying, and Power 8/9 doesn't appear to be migrating down to the desktop.

SO...whatcha gonna do, eh?

Frankly, I'm pretty cpu agnostic anymore.
After all, I lost MY bid in the cpu wars in the '90s.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline ThelgordTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Posts: 14
    • Show only replies by Thelgord
Re: It's been a long time
« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2017, 11:20:57 PM »
Wow. I didn't expect this thread to blow up like this. To clarify a few things:

The $200 is a target budget. I have no problems paying for tech toys, I buy a lot of Apple products. Not bragging, just my choice over windows.

I am looking to create a distraction free work space, and not use my Mac's (I have a few of them) as they are already used for other things, to include regular daily use and one is a local server.

Once I found out Amiga was still kicking, I got very excited. Even with as old as it is, you can't get a smaller OS that can do what Amiga OS can. Sure you can strip down a linux system to fit on a floppy, but what do you really get? I love the Amiga, and it will always have a place in my heart.

Having sad that, it has been a very long time since I have played around with an Amiga. At this point I am not prepared to drop $1k+ on a system unless I know it will fit the bill. If I can get something setup, learn the new software, and integrate it into the way I like to work, great!

If it doesn't work out, I don't want to have spent $1k+ on a machine that will be relegated playing 20 year old games and then sit in a closet if I get bored with it.

If I can work an Amiga into my setup, then I will see about upgrading to a shiny new one. To give you guys/gals an idea of how busy my life can get, I have been typing this out for nearly an hour now as my phone won't stop blowing up because of work, which requires me to look at emails, which then require responses, then there is a BBQ next weekend at my house, so people are texting for that, my son is visiting from the west coast (and is apparently out of work),  the list just goes on. It's gets very frustrating.

When I write, I want complete solitude. Just me, a set of head phones, and a beer. It is my escape from my normal life. It is why I setup my writing station in a large closet instead of the spare bedroom turned office.

It was mentioned in this thread about setting up a second user account on my Mac, which is a good idea. However, the temptation to "connect" is still there. The great thing about Apple products is they are all connected together. The horrible thing about Apple products is they are all connected together. Creating a new account still requires you to sign in with an AppleID, and a guest account is so limited that no real work can done without a great deal of frustration. I have been down that road, which is why the idea of the Amiga appeals to me.

Sure I can get a linux system up running for less than $100, I could probably even get an older windows XP machine for around the same price. The problem is, I like the Amiga, and I am trying to find a way to make it work. Yes, it's a bit more of a headache, yes it's an old OS, and yes there are cheaper ways to do what I am trying to do.

So, in effort to keep at least initial cost down, I have decided for my first foray into the Amiga in around 20 years, that I will go the emulation route on a Raspberry Pi and see if I get OS 4.1 to work with it. This has a number advantages, besides keeping cost low. It will also allow me to use Cinnamon Writer so I can have modern document compatibility, it has a PDF viewer (though I don't know yet how good it is yet), and a functional web browser. The pdf viewer and web browser I can use for research. Even if it runs slow(ish) that will be fine until I can get the kinks of working with AmigaOS worked out. If I like the workflow well enough, then in a few months (maybe a year) I can plop down the money for a X5000 or whatever is on the horizon.

If I can't get 4.1 to work with the Raspberry Pi, I know I can get 3.1 to work with it, and I will need to workout different issues such as document file types and the like. Either way, I can still play a number of games that are just a lot of fun when I want to be distracted.

I do appreciate everyone's help and advice, and I thank you all. It's good to know that there are still people out there to keep this alive, even when people like myself gave up on it more than a decade ago. I'm glad to be back.
 

Offline Iggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 5348
    • Show only replies by Iggy
Re: It's been a long time
« Reply #52 on: May 02, 2017, 01:08:02 AM »
Uh...hmm...sorry?

We DO get a little over wrought here.
I think we might have given you the impression we don't get along.
We do. Its just that we've spread out in several directions since the '90s.

You start out using something that is relatively unique and seems to point the way to the future, and some second rate hack management types f' it ALL up.

Now everything kinda looks like an Amiga, BUT almost no one even remembers that particular platform.
And worse yet, they want to drop all the credit for multimedia PCs in Steve Jobs and Bill Gates lap.

Its...frustrating.

BUT, this is all just a hobby now.

Emulation would be the ideal way for you to get back into it (although emulation of OS4 is kind of limited and a bit painful).

Cloanto gave me copies of their Amiga and C64 emulation packages years ago, and they were great then.
They've only gotten better.
To the point where the actual hardware is kind of unnecessary (sorry purists).

And you can install UAE yourself on a multitude of devices.

So, I think you have a good plan to start with.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline djomre

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Posts: 29
    • Show only replies by djomre
Re: It's been a long time
« Reply #53 on: May 02, 2017, 01:35:00 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;825242
And worse yet, they want to drop all the credit for multimedia PCs in Steve Jobs and Bill Gates lap.

History is written by the winner.
 

Offline ThelgordTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Posts: 14
    • Show only replies by Thelgord
Re: It's been a long time
« Reply #54 on: May 02, 2017, 04:11:19 AM »
Quote from: djomre;825243
History is written by the winner.

:laughing:
 

Offline ThelgordTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Posts: 14
    • Show only replies by Thelgord
Re: It's been a long time
« Reply #55 on: May 02, 2017, 04:14:59 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;825242

Emulation would be the ideal way for you to get back into it (although emulation of OS4 is kind of limited and a bit painful).

That is what I was thinking. Honestly, I think I will be fine, at least for now, with 3.1. While I do intend to try to make this work as viable solution for real work, I have no delusions about the limitations of a 16bit OS in a 64 bit world.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: It's been a long time
« Reply #56 on: May 02, 2017, 09:19:09 AM »
Quote from: Thelgord;825249
That is what I was thinking. Honestly, I think I will be fine, at least for now, with 3.1. While I do intend to try to make this work as viable solution for real work, I have no delusions about the limitations of a 16bit OS in a 64 bit world.

16bit?
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: It's been a long time
« Reply #57 on: May 02, 2017, 09:24:34 AM »
@terminills

I never understood why Aros made itself so small and (worse) even offered "Research" for the "R" in AROS. AROS was amiga replacement OS and if it could no longer be used that way then simply AROS. From a marketing view that was a self goal, only technicians can have such idea... Beta? How it is defined here? Beta again makes AROS small again. You see how it was and is used against it. I do not understand why people voluntary use such phrases here...
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: It's been a long time
« Reply #58 on: May 02, 2017, 09:25:07 AM »
actually amiga and the derived oses are all 32bit except for aros that may be either 32 or 64 bit.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: It's been a long time
« Reply #59 on: May 02, 2017, 09:33:08 AM »
@iggy

just a general thought... most of the bickering "we are the best", "we have the best developers" and so on was from MorphOS users, not the devs who not participated there (that is also true for 3rd party MorphOS devs). Those devs can say thank you to those users because that behavior alienated other camps leading to less people using MorphOS and buying licenses. So if you want to promote your favorite OS then it is ok but do not talk down competition, expecially now that there is close to zero 3rd party development, OS core dev team has obviously lost members and OS development stalls for a long time and the famous ISA change is only talk at the moment. And I can dig out the numbers of the Javascript engine test again comparing AROS X86 and real world platforms comparing to MorphOS or AmigaOS. I think you can remember it...
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 09:42:08 AM by OlafS3 »