It's been a long time

[OlafS3]

@iggy

just a general thought... most of the bickering "we are the best", "we have the best developers" and so on was from MorphOS users, not the devs who not participated there (that is also true for 3rd party MorphOS devs). Those devs can say thank you to those users because that behavior alienated other camps leading to less people using MorphOS and buying licenses. So if you want to promote your favorite OS then it is ok but do not talk down competition, expecially now that there is close to zero 3rd party development, OS core dev team has obviously lost members and OS development stalls for a long time and the famous ISA change is only talk at the moment. And I can dig out the numbers of the Javascript engine test again comparing AROS X86 and real world platforms comparing to MorphOS or AmigaOS. I think you can remember it...

[Terminills]

@terminills

I never understood why Aros made itself so small and (worse) even offered "Research" for the "R" in AROS. AROS was amiga replacement OS and if it could no longer be used that way then simply AROS. From a marketing view that was a self goal, only technicians can have such idea... Beta? How it is defined here? Beta again makes AROS small again. You see how it was and is used against it. I do not understand why people voluntary use such phrases here...

The Research is historical.  AROS was never intended as a mainstream OS but was being developed by fans of the Amiga.

[OlafS3]

The Research is historical.  AROS was never intended as a mainstream OS but was being developed by fans of the Amiga.

but in the meantime the last one should have realized that such phrases are used against AROS to make it look bad

[Terminills]

but in the meantime the last one should have realized that such phrases are used against AROS to make it look bad

If a user isn't going to try AROS because it's "Always in BETA" or a research OS then there's a good chance they would never try it to begin with.   As for some people using the BETA term to try to discredit the achievements of the developers.   I guess that comes down to how petty that person is in the first place.

In the end who cares.

I can sum up this thread like this.

AmigaONE is the only NEW Amiga.  (MorphOS and AROS are fakes and should be disposed of)

MorphOS developers can walk on water!!!!

Well AROS is the cheapest!

AmigaOS4 is the pure descendant of the code! :angel:

Classic hardware is all dying!

FPGA isn't real!

Emulation is evil.

Just like every other thread in the last 17 years.

[Thelgord]

If a user isn't going to try AROS because it's "Always in BETA" or a research OS then there's a good chance they would never try it to begin with.   As for some people using the BETA term to try to discredit the achievements of the developers.   I guess that comes down to how petty that person is in the first place.

In the end who cares.

I can sum up this thread like this.

AmigaONE is the only NEW Amiga.  (MorphOS and AROS are fakes and should be disposed of)

MorphOS developers can walk on water!!!!

Well AROS is the cheapest!

AmigaOS4 is the pure descendant of the code! :angel:

Classic hardware is all dying!

FPGA isn't real!

Emulation is evil.

Just like every other thread in the last 17 years.

Now that's funny

[Terminills]

Now that's funny

It's also the reason I barely post anymore.   Typically I will only post now and then about the development status of Final Writer.

[Iggy]

If a user isn't going to try AROS because it's "Always in BETA" or a research OS then there's a good chance they would never try it to begin with.   As for some people using the BETA term to try to discredit the achievements of the developers.   I guess that comes down to how petty that person is in the first place.

In the end who cares.

I can sum up this thread like this.

AmigaONE is the only NEW Amiga.  (MorphOS and AROS are fakes and should be disposed of)

MorphOS developers can walk on water!!!!

Well AROS is the cheapest!

AmigaOS4 is the pure descendant of the code! :angel:

Classic hardware is all dying!

FPGA isn't real!

Emulation is evil.

Just like every other thread in the last 17 years.

I quite like that summation (even if our developers CAN walk on water, they don't JUST because they don't want to show off :lol:).

Yeah, it gets repetitive, a little.

You forgot "development is deathly slow", "no one but Amigans would be interested", "there are less of us every year", and "you ought to go out and buy a PC or Mac" (as IF most of us don't own one already). :hammer:

Edit - Oh yeah, and "my epenis is bigger than your epenis, and you're a twit for doing it the way you do"

[Iggy]

16bit?

Well, technically 31 bit if you want to use the memory addressing limitation of the Amiga, 32 bit for some instructions, but yes, for the most part the 68K is a 16 bit device.

[wawrzon]

A(R)OS

for those distressed with aros being a research os, one day someone may put together a distribution witout the R. problem solved.

[Iggy]

@iggy

just a general thought... most of the bickering "we are the best", "we have the best developers" and so on was from MorphOS users, not the devs who not participated there (that is also true for 3rd party MorphOS devs). Those devs can say thank you to those users because that behavior alienated other camps leading to less people using MorphOS and buying licenses. So if you want to promote your favorite OS then it is ok but do not talk down competition, expecially now that there is close to zero 3rd party development, OS core dev team has obviously lost members and OS development stalls for a long time and the famous ISA change is only talk at the moment. And I can dig out the numbers of the Javascript engine test again comparing AROS X86 and real world platforms comparing to MorphOS or AmigaOS. I think you can remember it...

Personally, I feel like the most hostility comes from the OS4 crowd (the "real Amiga" people).
They accuse all the rest of us of stealing, when that is pretty much what AInc and Hyperion have done.
As to developers, you're all using Odyssey, and that was created from webkit by a core MorphOS developer.
We might feel like sharing more IF that worked both ways, but the only real cross NG development that seems to occur is between AROS and MorphOS (unless you count developments in legacy or the very occasional total cross platform program like Cinnamon Writer).

Everyone is free to consider porting Ambient.
MUI 4/5 had to be paid for, and development was carried well past what Stuntz had created, which is why they didn't feel like just handing the work over to a commercial competitor.
And then, once the AOS crowd started to Morph  an earlier version into something they called MUI4 (primarily to facilitate a port of Odyssey), and then went on to create an MUI5 with incompatibility issues with our existing MUI (and no doubt Zune)...

Do you REALLY expect us to be all smiles?

Look, Ben Hermans is an ASS, and he's made so threatening and unjustified legal claims about our OS, when our OS predates the creation and "acquisition" of the rights to OS4.

So YEAH, there's some hostility there.
AND, it might not be there IF Hermans didn't own those rights...
Frankly, I think there is some level of respect for the Friedens (who own part of OS4), and I know there is more than a little of that for Han de Ruiter (who OS4 users owe quite a bit of thanks too).

BUT, please, don't go pointing your fingers at us.
Because we DON'T spend that much time thinking about or attacking YOU.
We DO respond when you make your quaint comments though. :bitch:

[wawrzon]

As to developers, you're all using Odyssey, and that was created from webkit by a core MorphOS developer.

another example of wrong recollection, i wonder if on purpose..

odyssey same as aros owb was created based on owb engine, which was first used in os4 owb, by joerg s. then fab took that, maintained it, added mui gui, switched to webkit itself, which the previous engine was an abandoned fork of anyway and renamed it as odyssey. then he opened his sources for a bounty and aros together with os4 developers took over, and here it is today in a cross platform repository available for everyone:

https://github.com/deadwood-pl/OdysseyWebBrowser

certainly, fabs role is a major one, but altogether it is what you practically might call a cooperative effort.

[OlafS3]

Personally, I feel like the most hostility comes from the OS4 crowd (the "real Amiga" people).
They accuse all the rest of us of stealing, when that is pretty much what AInc and Hyperion have done.
As to developers, you're all using Odyssey, and that was created from webkit by a core MorphOS developer.
We might feel like sharing more IF that worked both ways, but the only real cross NG development that seems to occur is between AROS and MorphOS (unless you count developments in legacy or the very occasional total cross platform program like Cinnamon Writer).

Everyone is free to consider porting Ambient.
MUI 4/5 had to be paid for, and development was carried well past what Stuntz had created, which is why they didn't feel like just handing the work over to a commercial competitor.
And then, once the AOS crowd started to Morph  an earlier version into something they called MUI4 (primarily to facilitate a port of Odyssey), and then went on to create an MUI5 with incompatibility issues with our existing MUI (and no doubt Zune)...

Do you REALLY expect us to be all smiles?

Look, Ben Hermans is an ASS, and he's made so threatening and unjustified legal claims about our OS, when our OS predates the creation and "acquisition" of the rights to OS4.

So YEAH, there's some hostility there.
AND, it might not be there IF Hermans didn't own those rights...
Frankly, I think there is some level of respect for the Friedens (who own part of OS4), and I know there is more than a little of that for Han de Ruiter (who OS4 users owe quite a bit of thanks too).

BUT, please, don't go pointing your fingers at us.
Because we DON'T spend that much time thinking about or attacking YOU.
We DO respond when you make your quaint comments though. :bitch:

you put me all the time in the 4.X camp...

just for the record... I do not use 4.X and never used it, I do not own any PPC hardware

I became interested again because of Natami project and am only interested in AROS. So please keep me out of this "red vs. blue" thing. If I write something it has zero to do with Ben H., Hyperion, 4.X or similar.

I posted here because you called AROS crap, you seem to forget very fast (age related?). And no indeed, you are not funny I do not think that anyone here thought that. Competition calling crap is not nice gesture, it is not politely and even it is plain wrong. I do not want to talk down MorphOS here, everybody to its own. Ambient was not voluntary made open soujrce from what I read, Stefan Stuntz was willing to open MUI sources as far as I know what would have made life a lot easier for Aros devs but at least one of the core devs was against it and today we have different versions of MUI on the different platforms and MorphOS supporters moan about that. The same is true for RTG... you do not want to cooperate then live with results and "shut up". OWB was originated on MorphOS and Fab was nice enough to open sources for some money. Later MorphOS will benefit from it because one of the Aros devs took the torch.

I was never part of the battle and not in community when it was on its height, I live in 2017 and cannot understand what some people are thinking.

Again if you want more users and devs make them think positive about it, promote the advantages you see, but do not call other camps crap or restart the old debates that lead to nothing except bad feelings.

[Terminills]

another example of wrong recollection, i wonder if on purpose..

odyssey same as aros owb was created based on owb engine, which was first used in os4 owb, by joerg s. then fab took that, maintained it, added mui gui, switched to webkit itself, which the previous engine was an abandoned fork of anyway and renamed it as odyssey. then he opened his sources for a bounty and aros together with os4 developers took over, and here it is today in a cross platform repository available for everyone:

https://github.com/deadwood-pl/OdysseyWebBrowser

certainly, fabs role is a major one, but altogether it is what you practically might call a cooperative effort.

You actually missed that when Stanislaw Szymczyk made the original AROS version of OWB he and fab cooperated.

[wawrzon]

You actually missed that when Stanislaw Szymczyk made the original AROS version of OWB he and fab cooperated.

no, i didnt miss that. I mention aros owb right on the beginning. Im well aware of it, as im constantly messing with its sources trying to get it work for 68k again.

[Terminills]

no, i didnt miss that. I mention aros owb right on the beginning. Im well aware of it, as im constantly messing with its sources trying to get it work for 68k again.

I know I read the ML ;P

[wawrzon]

I know I read the ML ;P

If that crosscompiling icu issue was solved we might perhaps have odyssey for all platforms in an instant, it was the same showstopper when i tried to compile it for 68k last year.