**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[wbrejnia]

RGB + SYNC Cable

So for now I have to be happy with a Temp Solution (Black and White) on my HP Monitor. (Till the Indivision ECS arrives)

Seems that the ( [R] [G] and [Sync] ) can be done in many ways (Combine and Separate Syncs in different ways too).

** BIT COMPLICATED to understand AMIGA-DB23/Composite-outputs [Looks like all signals are all Separate-DB23) vs HP-RGB-Inputs [unknown how to combine to meet spec] )

Even If I were to succeed with a Hack DB23 Connector/Wiring to RCA jacks.
It would be messy.

Black and white is good enough to have a peek at Amiga Progress while I start copying all my Floppy Games to GOTEK/SD.
The HP Monitor Allows me to See (Composite B&W) Amiga in Picture-In-Picture Window


HERE IS A GREAT VIDEO that describes the RGB and Sync Signalling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAlrdCBjUAQ

[wbrejnia]

Amiga DB23 Video Output (Limitations) * Danger to Possibly Damage Amiga *

I finally found a good specification on what I saw reference to in researching this topic.
There are some specific limitations on the DB23 Video Port PINS of the Amiga.
Hooking up Drivers, or  Mis-Wiring/Shorting,  could cause irreparable damage.

This diagram is from the link below shows many of the Amiga Ports Pinouts.
http://www.retrocomputacion.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?31076



So even though a connection might work for a short period of time.  Long term connections could eventually burn out the Amiga Port PIN.

I would even check connections to devices like the GBS8100 Converter board, with a Multi-Meter to check current draw (if connecting any of the current limited pins). ** NEVER DRAW 5V or 12Volt power off Amiga Port **

Also last but not least be Extra Cautious when connecting CRT (high Voltage) monitors.

[TheMagicM]

I'm not happy with my Indivision ECS.   I cant use widescreen LCD's (tried 2 different brands).   The LCD doesnt read the signal.   But my non-widescreen works fine.

[SACC-guy]

Make it easy on yourself, get one of these...
was included with every 4000 and 1200 from commodore

[wbrejnia]

Make it easy on yourself, get one of these...
was included with every 4000 and 1200 from commodore

I don't get it. What does it solve with having an Indivision.

What is the ADAPTER.... DB23 (RGB) to DB15(VGA) going to do.
Similar to this one http://amigastore.eu/en/207-amiga-rgb-to-vga-monitor-adapter.html

-->You either need a Monitor that will support 15Khz. (not too many LCD's do around. Or a CRT)
--> Or you need to drive 31Khz through Workbench Drivers (Something I haven't explored).

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

If you have a monitor that syncs to 15KHz then all you need is the C= silver adapter to display standard Amiga screenmodes.

[wbrejnia]

If you have a monitor that syncs to 15KHz then all you need is the C= silver adapter to display standard Amiga screenmodes.

ok. Now I'm clear.
Nothing to do with Indivision.
My HP LCD widescreen does appear to be 15KHz possible.
Planning to build one of these simple adapters, while I wait for the permanent Indivision solution (since I can't use the HP for the Long Run) and have plenty of VGA LCD Displays with proper aspect ratio (but not 15Khz supportable).

[Pat the Cat]

It is a good thing you are practicing those soldering skills Wally.  Because you are going to HAVE to do something about one capacitor on the  A2000 motherboard. Lead solder and a new iron (or just a new bit for  your current soldering iron) recommended. Nice big through hole  component, is pretty easy job, but do practice enough before you do it.

• Amiga 2000 (Rev. 4.1 and 4.3 only, other revisions have no such limitation):
  

Due to space constraints, one electrolytic capacitor must either be moved or replaced by a flatter version.

That's for fitting Indivision ECS. You HAVE to do this to fit the device.

Another possible issue ;-

All screenmodes are converted to frequencies of 60Hz or more (output  optionally at 50 Hz to avoid tearing effects), and the S-Hires mode of  the ECS chipset is displayed in full resolution. Indivision ECS can  display the ECS screenmodes even on systems that only have an OCS Denise  chip, the only requirement is an ECS Agnus chip (which is usually  present in all Amiga models made in 1990 or later).    

That's  OK? No ECS, and it works with your Agnus chip? Check the version you  have, 8372 is unlikely, I think you have earlier OCS Agnus version so  check compatible (limited to OCS but works).


Best to check will work OCS Agnus I think. It should do but I never used.



That's  probably fine for you, you are looking for a retro machine, and it's  not like OCS Amigas never had flicker fixers. They probably had more, by  proportion. Maybe you are happier with the chip RAM low.



Upgrading  the chip RAM is a much bigger deal maybe, I am unsure of best solution  for your current motherboard. Doing that and later Agnus should be  option for you, but not really needed - you want a Bridgeboard A2000,  stock 1988 or so. Having better compatibility is a stretch goal right  now, not the current job.



Anyway, the ROM upgrade  is basically two extra connections for the extra 2 pins on the ROM chip.  Which has a socket, makes it a lot easier fix. Again, that's an option  for you, but not urgent.

[wbrejnia]

It is a good thing you are practicing those soldering skills Wally. Because you are going to HAVE to do something about one capacitor on the A2000 motherboard. Lead solder and a new iron (or just a new bit for your current soldering iron) recommended. Nice big through hole component, is pretty easy job, but do practice enough before you do it.

That's for fitting Indivision ECS. You HAVE to do this to fit the device.

You scare me about the other issues you comment above. I thought the Indivision ECS was just a transparent thing. Just as transparent as the External SCART solution (but a little bit of intrusion. Remove chip/re-mount).
I'll address that in another reply.

As far as Capacitor for Indivision mount. Yes, I am thinking about that. It's one reason I hesitated getting it.

But like the Battery I removed. I don't want to remove the board to be able to properly solder from underneath. All a risk factor.

I'm thinking just clip the capacitor lead in middle. Then Solder a good Copper wire (insulated) to move it over.
Like an Extension cord. Then mount it nicely with Hot Glue, or that new UV Bonding material I got ( Light activated instant Set Plastic "BONDIC" )..

We'll see when it ECS comes.

Oh. and Here is a trick for Freshening, improving a Soldering Iron.
Instead of replacing that tip, or even sanding the tip (which I did in past)
I just take a fresh piece of Thick Copper wire (House wiring type).
Strip insulation, then wrap it like a coiled snake around Soldering Tip.
At end bring it to a point like Iron Tip but firm against tip for pressure point.
Then cut wire with sharp cutter to an angle (Custom cut angle for whatever Soldering job requires).
You can make a pin point tip to solder finest SMB.
Pure Copper transfers heat very efficiently.
 You should tin the end or else solder sticks too much to the wire.
Re-useable, disposable.

[wbrejnia]

AM I HEADING DOWN (AN ENDLESS RATHOLE)?

That's OK? No ECS, and it works with your Agnus chip? Check the version you have, 8372 is unlikely, I think you have earlier OCS Agnus version so check compatible (limited to OCS but works).


Best to check will work OCS Agnus I think. It should do but I never used.



That's probably fine for you, you are looking for a retro machine, and it's not like OCS Amigas never had flicker fixers. They probably had more, by proportion. Maybe you are happier with the chip RAM low.



Upgrading the chip RAM is a much bigger deal maybe, I am unsure of best solution for your current motherboard. Doing that and later Agnus should be option for you, but not really needed - you want a Bridgeboard A2000, stock 1988 or so. Having better compatibility is a stretch goal right now, not the current job.



Anyway, the ROM upgrade is basically two extra connections for the extra 2 pins on the ROM chip. Which has a socket, makes it a lot easier fix. Again, that's an option for you, but not urgent.

Pat, and others,

I don't have the broad knowledge of Everything Amiga like you guys do.

I'm starting to worry about these possible future issues.

----> Really happy about getting the GVP SCSI Hard Drive. That appears to be a must. (Extra memory will be handy too)
 --------> It won't be installed till I have all the pieces (for the Big Put Together). [Waiting for the KEY Component.  The ROM switcher]
(BTW I dug into my Surplus SCSI drives. Plenty. But all SCSI Ultra 3 Drives. So no value)

----> The indivision is a convenience thing (and removes the Amiga Monitor on my tight deskspace). Happy with that if it works.

-----> What's this about ECS Chip? Will I be needing one of these http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ECS-SUPER-DENISE-Chip-CSG-390433-02-8373R4PD-for-Commodore-Amiga-500-2000-3000-/282409731659?hash=item41c0ee864b:g:f38AAOSw~AVYrrOR

->Next thing is the Rev 4 motherboard (limitations I don't understand at all). Hoping it won't be a rockblock of any kind.

->Then my 68000 CPU (Slow). Was Surfing Internet and found this Flappy Bird Game Port that would have impressed my kids (but needs a 86030 to run).
-----> any 68030 Accelerator is way out of my price range (But I have started selling some shelved Fish Tank Equipment on Ebay to fund some more improvements). I can justify spending with PalPal Credits

I probably won't discover my other limitations for a while since I'm barely beyond Workbench 1.2 and Native resolution. Haven't even loaded any OS or applications on the Hard Drive.

Probably best to take one step at a time, and adjust as needed.

If I'm still up to continuing improvements, at end of 2017, mid 2018, or even 2019 there may be Vampires avaible and then things get easy (for everything needed).

That's my thinking, but just hoping for the mid term, I'm ok.

And reason I say that, is I know that I'm REALLY enjoying the Journey of Building (solving puzzle, to a degree) more so than when I get things done.
Unless I find a purpose for the Amiga, Like run my fish tank or house lights etc (Can't see me playing games, word-processing or editing images on the Amiga).

Yes, there is still one other option for this Amiga. The School Computer Lab Donation. Spoke with Teacher and when I done, he wants to see it.
They have an Atari computer of some sort to show during Computer History class. This Amiga will be way better (and I get to visit it for maintenance).

[wbrejnia]

Is there a online book or reference manual that I can read? (to learn about things like ECS, RTG, etc).
 
 Need to understand the big picture of A2000 / OS upgrades possible.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I must've missed something, but why do you want the ROM switcher?  Is it for some backward compatibility with your bridgeboard that you need 1.2/1.3?  IMHO, if you're booting your Amiga off a hard drive and have tons of extra RAM available, why not just WHDLoad games to solve compatibility issues with older versions of the OS?  Stick 3.1 on there and be done with it.

You are going to run into challenges with your Rev. 4 board.  Right off the bat I can think of two: you'll need to relocate or replace that capacitor to physically fit the Indivision (as Pat mentioned), and the limitations in your chip RAM.  Of the 1MB installed on your motherboard, Rev. 4 generally defaults to using that as 512K chip and 512K fast.  Since you'll have the 8MB of fast on the GVP card you really want as much chip as you can get, from other places.  In your case you're going to want to convert that extra 512K on the motherboard into chip.  This usually involves replacing your Agnus chip on the motherboard with a newer model (8370 or 8371 --> 8372) and changing a jumper or two.  Minor soldering may also be required, it's been years since I've done it, I forget exactly but instructions should be easy enough to find.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_Agnus

The last consideration with your Rev. 4 motherboard and OCS Agnus are if the Indivision will work with them.  It was mentioned earlier that it needs an ECS Agnus.  This may not be the case (I can't think of why it would need that), so you'll be a guinea pig on that claim.  

You won't require the ECS Denise unless you want the full ECS chipset.  Not required with the Indivision, but some of us just like to have it.  Again, just IMHO, I would buy it for that price.  Just to have it.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Need to understand the big picture of A2000 / OS upgrades possible.

That's easy:



How much are you willing to spend?  With the exception of Zorro 3 / Mediator-style busboards, and easy(er) access to PowerPC boards (so no OS4), the A2000 can be expanded in almost every way an A3000/A4000 can.  When the Vampire cards become more readily available you'll be able to pack a ton of power in them.  I think you just really need to determine exactly what you want to do with the system, and how much you're willing to spend.  :hammer:

You can start by reading every page of these links:

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/

http://amiga.resource.cx/

[wbrejnia]

Thanks Mike.

That explains a lot. Agnus chip upgrade sounds easy, if chips are available.

Still not sure what I would need ECS for (The Super Denise Chip). Isn't there a 2nd chip that needs upgrading to make it work (the Agnus)?

And why I want a ROM switcher is currently now I have to manually swtich ROM to Boot Workbench 1.2 VS 1.3, and most of my floppy games crash the amiga in Kickstart 3.1.
---> The main reason is demo purposes (I wish to show WB 1.2 the way it was, and also be able to run WB1.3,..+,+,+)
---> Booting old games off Gotek is another (I invested in Gotek Hxc), plus again (demo).
--------> WHload, just sounds like more work.
 --->Yes, the bridgeboard is another reason, but still not sure (since I haven't tried WB1.3 yet).

Thanks. Love the BIG $$$ sign image. Makes the point clear. I already spend 1/2$ Bucks so far. Willing to spend a bit more if the investment has value [features and $). (Just in case, I do sell down the long run).
(This whole thread started with me planning to sell the Amiga after getting bridgeboard working. Things changed, and I'm enjoying every moment. Worth every penny and time spent so far.)

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

You don't need the ECS Denise.  It provides additional screenmodes for productivity & applications with Workbench 2+, and is largely irrelevant with an Indivision.  Like I said, some people just like to have it (whether that's for the sake of "completeness", or because they want to have "the latest and greatest", etc.).  It's a relatively cheap and easy upgrade, just pop in a chip.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Enhanced_Chip_Set


WHDLoad is free (formerly shareware) software which allows you to play many old floppy-based games off hard drive, and fixes a variety of general compatibility issues (which varies by game, of course).  IMHO it's a much more modern solution than something like a Gotek.  Done right, on a system running WHDLoad if you want to play a game you just click on its icon in Workbench and it loads.  When you're finished you click on its 'quit' key and it closes (and returns you to your Workbench).  No more rebooting, no more swapping floppies, no more long load times, etc.  It does require more memory (I would recommend at least 4MB fast and 1MB chip) and at least a 68010 (to take advantage of the 'quit' key), in most cases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHDLoad

http://whdload.de/

[wbrejnia]

Perfect.  That answers everything at this point.
 Thanks.