**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[Pat the Cat]

There isn't a huge difference, but to be SURE, putting back the same one you used originally would be worth it.

For your peace of mind more than anything.

IIRC Setpatch on Workbench 1.3 was quite large, so there were some bugs introduced in 1.3 ROM, as well as some bugs removed.

I really doubt any of these affected Bridgeboard usage, but I could be wrong, and like I said, it is best to be SURE.

ROM chips are usually very robust, they can take things like bent pins, static electricity etc very well.

Contacting my friend who lent me the upgraded 486 which the PC case is  mislabelled 286. He keeps way more stuff in his storage room than me.

Also going to visit a Electronic Surplus store nearby. There is a  section at the back I never paid attention to. Piles of old  computers.

This is something good about Eastern Europe. In UK, stuff is either  recycled for gold and copper content or shipped outside Europe and dumped if  hazardous material.

Space / land is so expensive here, there are a few stores that hang on to old stuff, but they are nearly all gone now.

Happy hunting.

[Pat the Cat]

Contacting my friend who lent me the upgraded 486 which the PC case is mislabelled 286. He keeps way more stuff in his storage room than me.

Also going to visit a Electronic Surplus store nearby. There is a section at the back I never paid attention to. Piles of old computers.

This is something good about Eastern Europe. In UK, stuff is either recycled for gold and copper content or shipped abroad and dumped if hazardous material.

Space is so expensive here, there are a few stores that hang on to old stuff, but they are nearly all gone now.

Happy hunting.

[wbrejnia]

BATTERY REPLACEMENT ( COIN Battery with Diode )
 
 Found this link about just using a Coin battery instead of the rechargeable.
 
 I'll do slightly different, and run a wire to have access to replace the battery.
 
 http://www.retro-commodore.eu/2014/07/23/battery-replacement
 
 I have the parts (minus the Coin Battery Holder) but can build a hard Soldered version for now.

[Pat the Cat]

Yes, battery is battery, will do the same job.

Remember, solder is old school - lead based. You do not need very hot iron, it should melt easy.

[wbrejnia]

That is an excellent point!

Do you remember back when you used to use this system, did you have to have a disk in both drives in order for it to boot? Odd system, in any case. Basically a bare-bones Amiga (not even the 1MB Agnus), but with a whole bunch of expansions added on the Bridgeboard/PC side. What did you use it for, back in the day? Mostly PC software, I would assume. :lol:

I've seen/built as least 300 computers its hard to remember my 3rd over 30 years ago (but the Amiga was special).
 I know I played games uses Floppies, since I still have them in a box.
 I know I use the Amiga PC for DOS and DOS Programs, since it was used for school.
 I still have every single floppy I ever had, (except the DOS floppies, which is a clue)
 
 BUT I can't remember if I had Workbench on a Hard Drive, or if I had Dos on a Hard drive (or both).  That is the mystery. (Best bet in it was Amiga Partition on the PC side, and Amiga Booted Amiga Workbench, because I remember the SOUND of the Hard Drive, and there never was a Hard Drive on the Amiga Side).
 
 I'm sure if I saw it whatever is on that Hard Drive Boot, then memory would come back.

[wbrejnia]

I've read the Bridgeboard Manual a dozen times.  (But just found something new.)

Everything in BB Manual (setup Apendix) points to running FDISK on the PC Side to partition the PC HARD DRIVE. Regardless of if a Partition exists or not.

but running (DOS6.2) FDISK returns "NO fixed Disk", which is pure [DOS PC] and the [WD controller - Hard Drive ]

** I keep hinting that maybe DOS 6.2 FISK may not support my setup **

So nothing can be done more for an DOS Partition and Format.

However I just discovered the "ADISK" command, with is the same as FDISK but to create an AMIGA Partition on the HD.

I found it in the Amiga Resource Section of the Bridgeboard. With all the DISKS that came with the Bridgeboard.



If things were working/setup properly, I bet if I run FDISK the AMIGA Partition will show up.

Could I be that lucky? Probably not, since if FDISK isn't picking up Controller, then ADISK won't (Who knows)

And I bet, I will face another challenge. Everything that came with BB was DOS 3.3 (so this ADISK may not run).

I DO have a 5.5" DOS 3.3 Boot disk, but it won't boot on the 486 PC.

So my work is to figure out some way.

[wbrejnia]

FDISK and DOS 3.x
 
 So I found out that FDISK in MSDOS 3.3 and lower was an INTENAL COMMAND, not a Separate FDISK.com command like in MSDOS 6.x.
 
 http://www.computerhope.com/fdiskhlp.htm
 
 So that MS DOS 3.3 (3.5" Disk) I have has everything I may need (FDISK).  And the Bridgeboard has a DOS 3.x version of (FDISK).
 
 But what's got my head scratching is why it won't boot on the 486?
 No read error, it just start booting, and HANGS.
 
 Is there a reason it won't boot?  I understand earlier version of DOS were built for the pre-286 CPU's.  (My Bridgeboard is 2088 CPU).
 
 I'm not PC expert, to understand the compatibilities, but my hunt is to get a DOS 3.x bootable disk working.

[wbrejnia]

SIGNIFICANT PROGRESS (but No Results)

- Got a DOS 3.3 Image
- Made a DOS 3.3 (3.5" bootable Disk)
- Booted 486 with (3.5" DOS 3.3 Disk)
- Formatted a 5.25" DOS Boot Disk

DOS 3.3 Format is different from higher DOS
http://www.robvanderwoude.com/format.php

FORMAT B: /4 /S (for a 360K Bootable Floppy)

- Copied over Janus and A-DOS BB files to Boot Disk

- Booted Amiga PC in MS DOS 3.3

- Ran FDISK, Runs Nice but (Error: No fixed DISKS)

- Ran ADISK, Runs Nice but (Error: Partition read/write error! )



** SAME ERROR with Drive cables connected or NOT **

 
 
NEXT STEP: (SOMEHOW THE CONTROLLER isn't properly presenting the C: Drive to Amiga PC) Need to figure out Why? (PC searches, Forums, ... ) )

[Dandy]

...
BTW. It would be amazing if "cd jh0:" worked. But it doesn't'.
The behaviour is the same as in the Photo above.   "cd jh0:" gives (can't find jh0: ) and "cd jh1: (Pops up the Insert Volume jh1: ). So something is special about "jh0" when DJmount is run.

I'm still a bit confused about how your system is set up.

In my system 'autoboot' was not supported and so I had to boot from DF0: with a floppy disk called 'BootDisk'. This contained all the necessary files '(s/startup-sequence and all commands in c/ required by the Startup-sequence, incl. 'boil3' and 'movesys') to boot the system just far enough to be able to load Boil3 from the 'BootDisk:c/', to mount the harddrives with 'Boil3' and to move the system over from the floppy to the harddrive(s) mounted by boil3 with command "movesys dh0:". Then the "rest" of the startup-sequence was executed from DH0:s/startup-sequence.
After that my Workbench was readily booted.

When I wanted to use my "PC-bridgeboard" (the Vortex ATonce 286 classic) I had to start it from the already booted Amiga side - either by using the Vortex floppy disk, or by double-clicking a 'batch-file' containing all the necessary info to start the Vortex (after having copied all necessary stuff from the Vortex disk to the relevant Amiga system directories on the HD, of course). This initialised the Vortex board and booted the PC side from the M§-DOS partition on the (already mounted and working) HD(s).

Although your setup is completely different, I would expect it to work in the same manner:
- first your Amiga must be booted (either directly from HD, or from floppy to mount the HD for full booting)
- after the Amiga is fully booted the PC bridgeboard can be started and M$-DOS or Windows can be launched (either from floppy disks, or from HD).

And I proved that different versions of WB disk commands don't mix and match well. When I copied over some stuff from my Original WB disk, it works (PC Boots) but this message POP UP. I can't trust this disk anymore, till I restore it.

Yeah - mostly this happened when you booted e.g. WB 3.1 and then tried to run an obsolete command from WB 1.3...

I think a post above talked about a tool for disk partially-unredable recovery.
But in general this command line copy is painful. What are some good tools for file management?

For "quick and dirty" file operations I use DOpus 4.16.
But you can also try one of the later versions.
Download the version you like from DOpus (Directory Opus) on Aminet.

Is there a way to use a NEW WB Disk, and then my OLD working copy, and just copy everything I can get off of it (overwriting the NEW WB Disk)?

Not sure if I fully got what you mean...
You want to overwrite a new WB Disk (an 'original' one?) with the content of your old working copy of an original WB disk?

I would never overwrite 'original' disks...
Your "OLD working copy" may have been modyfied (either by you manually, or by the system automatically - e.g. the "user-startup") and so be no longer 'original'.
But basically you can of course overwrite any "new WB Disk" - just make sure the "Write Protect" is disabled.

[Dandy]

...
I'm no Amiga or PC-XT Expert, but there are 3 basics scenarios (corrupt or not-corrupt).

1) The drive has a AMIGA FORMATTED IMAGE (one or more partitions)
2) The drive has a DOS FORMATTED IMAGE (one or more partitions)
3) The drive has BOTH a [DOS and AMIGA IMAGE]

** due to small drive size, there is probably only 1 or 2 partitions **

Most likely it's option 3)...

I need to read the BRIDGBOARD install Guide steps to fully understand how that new-install/config would be done (there will be clues)
...
Next step is to READ THAT BRIDGEBOARD MANUAL very carefully and understand the NEW BUILD procedure for a IBM-SideHDD and a AMIGA SIde Access to it.

That seems to be the best idea...

[Dandy]

...
All I need for the Amiga PC bus side is a controller card.  

No.
Normally you have a PC Partition (or a PC 'file') on your Amiga harddrive.
No additional hardware (e.g. drive controller card) needed for the PC side.
The PC side normally uses the Amiga harddrive (either a partition on it, or a 'file').

The WD controller I have won't work for anything other than my MFM ALOK Octagon.  Correct?  

It should at least work for all MFM harddrives. In case the WD Controller is also capable of RLL, you can format your drive(s) in RLL format in order to  obtain roughly 1/3 more drive storage capacity.

I wonder if the 486AT Hard Drive/Floppy drive controller would go into the Amiga (I have  drivers on the 486 MS DOS), but I doubt it.  Highly doubt it.
 

Why would you want to use this 486 Controller with your Amiga?

BUT before I consider any of the above, I want to try the ORIGINAL KICKSTART ROM and all my OLD workbench disks. (That won't cost me a penny).

If you have several different versions of Kickstart Chips, you might want to fit an Reprogrammable Kickstart Switcher or an mechanical Kickstart Switcher.

[wbrejnia]

I'm still a bit confused about how your system is set up.

In my system 'autoboot' was not supported and so I had to boot from DF0: with a floppy disk called 'BootDisk'. This contained all the necessary files '(s/startup-sequence and all commands in c/ required by the Startup-sequence, incl. 'boil3' and 'movesys') to boot the system just far enough to be able to load Boil3 from the 'BootDisk:c/', to mount the harddrives with 'Boil3' and to move the system over from the floppy to the harddrive(s) mounted by boil3 with command "movesys dh0:". Then the "rest" of the startup-sequence was executed from DH0:s/startup-sequence.
After that my Workbench was readily booted.

When I wanted to use my "PC-bridgeboard" (the Vortex ATonce 286 classic) I had to start it from the already booted Amiga side - either by using the Vortex floppy disk, or by double-clicking a 'batch-file' containing all the necessary info to start the Vortex (after having copied all necessary stuff from the Vortex disk to the relevant Amiga system directories on the HD, of course). This initialised the Vortex board and booted the PC side from the M§-DOS partition on the (already mounted and working) HD(s).

Although your setup is completely different, I would expect it to work in the same manner:
- first your Amiga must be booted (either directly from HD, or from floppy to mount the HD for full booting)
- after the Amiga is fully booted the PC bridgeboard can be started and M$-DOS or Windows can be launched (either from floppy disks, or from HD).

Dandy,

Some great information here.

I agree with your boot sequence (my system was similar).
- Amiga Booted Intially from A WB disk (I still have 2 WB disks from the past) But don't boot (all files intact on WB disks). Assumption is OS is corrupt on Floppy.
- WB DISKS (Startup-Sequence) in those disks shows a mount of JH0: (vi DJMOUNT) and all directories (Mapped to JH0:xxx) which means the Amga then booted off the Image of AmigaOS (off the PC Hard Drive thru the Bridgeboard/Janus)
- JANUS (is in the Expansion Folder) of the WB DISK
- How the PC side worked is a mystery (Maybe I only used floppies, or maybe there is also a MDOS partition on the PC Hard Drive)
--------------> or it worked like your setup (the C: HARD drive DOS Partition on the PC side just booted)
- I'm not sure how things happened exactly (BOIL doesn't sound familiar at all)

- Biggest OBSTACLE is that (Hard Drive Controller and Hard Drive) COMBO are (c: PHYSICAL DISK) not seen by the PC Side (via FDISK or ADISK)
--------------> I can talk to the Controller via DEBUG
--------------> Controller appears to be talking to the HARD DRIVE
--------------> Perhaps the Level Format using (DEBUG) is required for that C: drive to be seen (doesn't seem right, but who knows)

My comment about the 486 was that I wanted to use it to get the WD-HardDrive-Controller working on it to get access to the Hard Drive. (Similar to the setup on the A2000/PCside)

I have some ideas, and thanks for the DOPUS program, that might be handy.

[Dandy]

Dandy,

Some great information here.


I agree with your boot sequence (my system was similar).

Fine.

- Amiga Booted Intially from A WB disk (I still have 2 WB disks from the past) But don't boot (all files intact on WB disks). Assumption is OS is corrupt on Floppy.

OK.
What WB disks do you have?
For example - the complete set of "Workbench" disks of OS version 3.1 consists of 6 DD floppy disks wich are labeled as follows:
1) Install - Version 3.1 (contains the installer to install the complete OS on HD)
2) Workbench - Version 3.1
3) Extras - Version 3.1
4) Locale - Version 3.1
5) Storage - Version 3.1
6) Fonts - Version 3.1

Initially I had to boot my Amiga from the WB floppy disks.

Then I had to prepare the drive(s) with the Boil3 software (from a backup copy of the Boil3 floppy disk - entering drive geometry data & saveing, mounting the drives).

Then I had to install the OS on the HD from the "Workbench" floppy disks.

As I already mentioned, my RLL HD setup had no autoboot option - so I had to boot from a "special bootdisk" floppy.

As I had booted the OS (from the floppies), I could insert a blank DD floppy disk into a floppy drive and format it as bootable disk from the Workbench. This way the my "Bootdisk" was for the same OS version that I used to boot from the floppy disks, e.g. "HD-Bootdisk 3.1".

First I created the necessary directories on this Bootdisk:
c
devs
l
libs
s
system
t
Then I copied all the system files to this "special bootdisk" floppy into the relatred directories required to "boot" the Amiga to such a degree ("minimum system") that it could load the required Boil files, mount the HD(s) and finally move the system was over to DH0: and the startup-sequence on DH0: was executed.

The startup-sequence of this "special bootdisk" floppy for OS 3.1 looked like this:
;run system/cli
;add32bit-special resetfest
;setcpu cache burst fastrom config 2 trap 2
fastmemfirst
addbuffers >nil: df0: 35
addbuffers >nil: df1: 35
boilexists
IF WARN
boilchipmodule devs/boil.device 1 > nil:
boilchipmodule devs/nucleus003.device 1 > nil:
ENDIF
boilmount
addbuffers >nil: dh0: 35
;addbuffers >nil: _dh0: 35
addbuffers >nil: dh1: 35
movesys dh0:
dh0:c/execute dh0:s/startup-sequence

When I switched on the Amiga with the Bootdisk in a flppy drive, it started to boot the floppy and after a few seconds the HDs spun up and the complete Amiga operating system booted from HD.

- WB DISKS (Startup-Sequence) in those disks shows a mount of JH0: (vi DJMOUNT) and all directories (Mapped to JH0:xxx) which means the Amga then booted off the Image of AmigaOS (off the PC Hard Drive thru the Bridgeboard/Janus)
- JANUS (is in the Expansion Folder) of the WB DISK

So far it seems to work analogue to my setup.

- How the PC side worked is a mystery (Maybe I only used floppies, or maybe there is also a MDOS partition on the PC Hard Drive)

Have you already tried to find documentation/manual of your bridgeboard on the web?

There the "mystery" should be explained...

--------------> or it worked like your setup (the C: HARD drive DOS Partition on the PC side just booted)
- I'm not sure how things happened exactly (BOIL doesn't sound familiar at all)

- Biggest OBSTACLE is that (Hard Drive Controller and Hard Drive) COMBO are (c: PHYSICAL DISK) not seen by the PC Side (via FDISK or ADISK)
--------------> I can talk to the Controller via DEBUG
--------------> Controller appears to be talking to the HARD DRIVE
--------------> Perhaps the Level Format using (DEBUG) is required for that C: drive to be seen (doesn't seem right, but who knows)

As we don`t know how your bridgeboard works all we could do is guessing, which mostly leads to nowhere.

Best idea is to get the manual and see if and how the HD can be used from the PC side.

In my setup, the Vortex ATonce 286 classic software had to be installed on the Amiga side. In its Preferences, you could select the boot method (IIRC, M$-Dos formatted HD partition or HD-file in Amiga format, or floppy disks) and then all you had to do to start the PC (in my case from M$-Dos formatted HD partition) was double-clicking on the ATonce icon on the WB.

My comment about the 486 was that I wanted to use it to get the WD-HardDrive-Controller working on it to get access to the Hard Drive. (Similar to the setup on the A2000/PCside)

IF there really is a M$-Dos formatted partition on the HD, then you could see it this way.

But as your setup seems to work similar to my setup, I would assume there`s already an Amiga partition on it. And if you succeed to boot that, I`m quite confident you can start the pc from there.

I think the trick is to get the Amiga to boot from the HD (which possibly requires a "special HD boot disk" similar to what I used on my setup.

If you could find the installation files for your bridgeboard, it could be that it offeres the option to create such a bootdisk.

I have some ideas, and thanks for the DOPUS program, that might be handy.

You`re welcome!

[wbrejnia]

Dandy,

That's really good information AGAIN!! I'll tackle this eventually.

I still don't understand what BOIL is. HW/SW, can you explain a bit more?

BTW, interesting Website (in your footnote). My wife is from German Family and just visited Germany this summer with one of my children. I'm Polish background, so a visit to Europe to show the 3 kids, would be easy to cover both parent's heritage since countries are side by side.

[wbrejnia]

NEXT TEST [Aread, Awrite to confirm Bridgeboard - DOS/Janus/AmigaOS working ]

What I plan on doing next before anything else, (now that I think I have many things setup and working) is try the Aread and Awrite commands available on the DOS side (they come with the Bridgeboard DOS diskette)

These commands should allow me to copy to/from Amiga/DOS file systems.

They should work, and if they do/don't that may provide evidence on if the setup, drivers, and libraries are in sync and configured properly.

If they DO WORK then more efforts can continue to enhance the setup to go further (Boot Amiga from PC Amiga Partition).

If they DO NO WORK, then more adjustments need to be figured out.

[wbrejnia]

Fine.

Have you already tried to find documentation/manual of your bridgeboard on the web?

There the "mystery" should be explained...

As we don`t know how your bridgeboard works all we could do is guessing, which mostly leads to nowhere.

Best idea is to get the manual and see if and how the HD can be used from the PC side.

Yes, I have the Full Bridgeboard install Guide (SCANNED PAPER ENGLISH COPY), the link is above in post.
THERE A GERMAN Electronic Version for your SPARE TIME READING http://l8r.net/technical/a2088.html (Look at the Appendix, that is where I am stuck "FDISK/ADISK")
I have done all the steps required, and the one step not working is the FDISK that should pick up the FIXED disk (PC DOS). or ADISK (AMIGA OS).

Nothing more can be done beyond that point in the manual.