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AuthorTopic: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000  (Read 1384 times)

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Offline magnetic

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #135 on: August 17, 2016, 11:24:03 AM »
Hey Jim
I was very happy to hear that you are now part of the Vampire project! Congratulations!
bPlan Pegasos2 G4@1ghz
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Offline magnetic

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #136 on: August 17, 2016, 11:30:09 AM »
Quote from: biggun;812554
attached comparison 68060 versus Apollo 68080.
Result is very clear.


Gunne, congratulations on the continued success of the Apollo and Vampire project.Thanks for all the hardwork you and the team put in.  The speeds are impressive. I had the 600 vampire v1 and used to test cores. Im sure its come a long way. My main hope and wish is for the full MMU and FPU support. I need this in my classic amiga. Also the full usage of A2000 zorro and vid slots. Is this supported in A2k version? One more question if you dont mind will it work with CDTV and be able to close the case? (vampire v500)
bPlan Pegasos2 G4@1ghz
Quad Boot:Reg. MorphOS | OS4.1 U4 |Ubuntu GNU-Linux | MacOS X

Amiga 2000 Rom Switcher w/ 3.1 + 1.3 | HardFrame SCSI | CBM Ram board| A Squared LIVE! 2000 | Vlab Motion | Firecracker 24 gfx

Commodore CDTV: 68010 | ECS | 9mb Ram | SCSI -TV | 3.9 Rom | Developer EPROMs
 

Offline jack-3d

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #137 on: August 17, 2016, 02:05:18 PM »
Simple this is the only reason I bought A2000 recently. I think this Amiga model deserves fast accelerator way more then A500 or 600. Waiting for the pre-order moment ;o)
A500+ | A600 | A1200 | A1200T | A2000 | A4000 | A4000T | Mac mini G4
 

Offline kolla

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #138 on: August 17, 2016, 02:19:24 PM »
Quote from: gertsy;812677
Yeahbut is it Zorro or a2000 cpu slot?  Pic looks cpu slot to me.


???

You put the Vampire in an adapter that fits into the CPU slot of the A2000, _or_ you just pull out the 68000 and insert the Vampire there, but that may not fit so well inside the A2000, and in any case it does not matter.

A2000 only has 16 bit Zorro2 slots that were made with 68000 in mind, and these will work well with Vampire.

What would _not_ work, is using current Apollo core with Zorro3 cards, but at this point that is not so relevant, as there are no Vampire cards for A3000(T)/A4000(T) systems.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
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A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
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Offline gertsy

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Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #139 on: August 18, 2016, 12:07:51 AM »
Quote from: kolla;812691
???

You put the Vampire in an adapter that fits into the CPU slot of the A2000, _or_ you just pull out the 68000 and insert the Vampire there, but that may not fit so well inside the A2000, and in any case it does not matter.

A2000 only has 16 bit Zorro2 slots that were made with 68000 in mind, and these will work well with Vampire.

What would _not_ work, is using current Apollo core with Zorro3 cards, but at this point that is not so relevant, as there are no Vampire cards for A3000(T)/A4000(T) systems.


Thanks for that. There you go @oldsmobile_mike. Your answer from an authoritative source.
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #140 on: August 18, 2016, 03:41:07 AM »
Quote from: gertsy;812726
Thanks for that. There you go @oldsmobile_mike. Your answer from an authoritative source.

That's an authoritative source?  :lol:

Kidding, kidding.  Thanks for the clarification!  :D
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
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Offline gertsy

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Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #141 on: August 18, 2016, 05:49:31 AM »
@Oldsmobile_mike. You'd be keen to get one for your 2k..?
 

Offline biggun

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #142 on: August 18, 2016, 07:54:08 AM »
To prevent misunderstandings here some facts:

* Apollo 68080 support _ALL_ CPU instructions of the 68060 and 68040.
The instruction set of the Apollo 68080 is 100% supporting the 68k family.

* Zorro Cards run just fine with Apollo 68080.
We ran several cards in AMIGA 2000.

* We also assume that Zorro 3 cards will run just fine. As we have no Apollo Card for A4000 yet, we can not prove this today - but there is no reason why Zorro 3 card should not just run fine.

* Apollo 68080 is not GPL but you can perfectly legal combine it with GPL VHDL in the same FPGA.
The legal requirement for instantiating several FPGA designs in the same FPGA is that each design is an separate entity for which its license then is valid.

guest11527

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Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #143 on: August 18, 2016, 09:01:38 AM »
Quote from: biggun;812734
* Apollo 68080 support _ALL_ CPU instructions of the 68060 and 68040.
The instruction set of the Apollo 68080 is 100% supporting the 68k family.
Really? The following are valid instructions on a 68040:

movec a0,srp ?
pflush (a0) ?
ptestr (a1) ?
fsqrt.x fp0,fp1 ?
movec d0,sfc ?
movec dfc,d1 ?
moves.l (a0),d3 ?

Quote from: biggun;812734
* Apollo 68080 is not GPL but you can perfectly legal combine it with GPL VHDL in the same FPGA.
The legal requirement for instantiating several FPGA designs in the same FPGA is that each design is an separate entity for which its license then is valid.
Did you ask the folks from the FSF about this? The question is whether this is considered "linking" or not. It sounds potentially like a grey area to me.
 

Offline kolla

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #144 on: August 18, 2016, 04:31:20 PM »
Quote from: biggun;812734
* We also assume that Zorro 3 cards will run just fine. As we have no Apollo Card for A4000 yet, we can not prove this today - but there is no reason why Zorro 3 card should not just run fine.

There are plenty of hurdles to work around to get Zorro3 working - and it is one thing to support the spec, another to actually support all the trick&hacks to support all the cards out there.

Both A3000 and A4000 make use of the MMUs in the 68030 and 68040 respectively to work around issues.

Quote
As the 68040.library requires an MMU to map address space, the fix
described above will not work on systems with an MC68EC040.  Because
burst mode on the 68040 is activated along with the cache, there is
no way to prevent a 68EC040-equipped Amiga from doing full line
bursts when accessing cachable address space.  This means a 68EC040
cannot prevent the excessive reads and writes when reading
non-cachable Zorro III devices that reside in cachable address space.
A 68EC040-equipped Amiga will experience a significant decrease in
performance when accessing non-cachable Zorro III devices.  For this
reason we cannot recommend that anyone use a 68EC040 (or any future
68000 series CPU that has no MMU) as the CPU on a Zorro III bus
system.

http://amigadev.elowar.com/read/ADCD_2.1/AmigaMail_Vol2_guide/node0161.html
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
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A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
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guest11527

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Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #145 on: August 18, 2016, 04:41:12 PM »
Quote from: kolla;812751
Both A3000 and A4000 make use of the MMUs in the 68030 and 68040 respectively to work around issues.



http://amigadev.elowar.com/read/ADCD_2.1/AmigaMail_Vol2_guide/node0161.html

Yes, indeed. While in principle even the ECs can disable caching by means of the TTx registers, their granularity is "somewhat limited" to 16MB, too coarse to be useful, and there are not enough registers available (ITT0,ITT1,DTT0,DTT1) to allow a flexible setup as required by Zorro-III. For Zorro-II, the story is somewhat simpler: Disable caches in the entire lower 16MB window, and off you go (or.. crawl).

That's, however, not quite what Gunnar offers. As far as I understand, they have some sort of unit that can control caching, though it remains unclear to me to which extend it is flexible enough to allow the above.
 

Offline kolla

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #146 on: August 18, 2016, 04:45:58 PM »
Quote from: biggun;812734

* Apollo 68080 is not GPL but you can perfectly legal combine it with GPL VHDL in the same FPGA.
The legal requirement for instantiating several FPGA designs in the same FPGA is that each design is an separate entity for which its license then is valid.


I guess that will be settled in court at some point, the Amiga way :)
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM460 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #147 on: September 27, 2016, 08:29:51 PM »
Found another picture of a Vampire installed in an Amiga 2000 on one of the Google+ forums.  (picture attached)

Original source:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/+SimoKoivukoski/posts/XQf5X281YDg?cfem=1

I haven't compared this to my A2000 but off-hand I don't think they're getting particularly good speeds.  Maybe it's the old version of AmiTCP mentioned in the post that they're using?  Bet it'd be faster with a better stack.  :)
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
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Offline psxphill

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #148 on: September 27, 2016, 11:59:12 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;812755
That's, however, not quite what Gunnar offers. As far as I understand, they have some sort of unit that can control caching, though it remains unclear to me to which extend it is flexible enough to allow the above.

I'm sure he can make it flexible enough, he just refuses to make it compatible with old software. The 68040 issue may not be applicable if he's not doing bus accesses in the same way.
 

guest11527

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Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #149 on: September 28, 2016, 02:28:49 AM »
Quote from: psxphill;814506
I'm sure he can make it flexible enough, he just refuses to make it compatible with old software.
That's an ongoing discussion. I personally would be "happy enough" if the core would be powerful enough to at least allow an emulation in software.

Quote from: psxphill;814506
The 68040 issue may not be applicable if he's not doing bus accesses in the same way.
There are two problems of the 68040. The first is that it does bursting for cachable regions, which is not acceptable for Zorro-III I/O regions. This is the bus problem you mention.

The second problem is the cache granularity of 16 bytes per entry. The 68040 cannot see modifications of RAM in Zorro space only, and a dirty cache line is always written back completely, regardless of which individual entry is dirty. That is at least the source of the DMA problem and (one) source of the need for CachePreDMA/CachePostDMA().