How to Use an A2320

[raoulduke]

So I got a Viewsonic VA1912wb.  It's not a great monitor but it also detects no signal; and purportedly supports 50hz - someone (please) feel free to contradict me there.  It's starting to look like the problem is with the card itself.

[paul1981]

So I got a Viewsonic VA1912wb.  It's not a great monitor but it also detects no signal; and purportedly supports 50hz - someone (please) feel free to contradict me there.  It's starting to look like the problem is with the card itself.

Have you tried 60Hz yet (NTSC) ?

[raoulduke]

You need to treat me like a total noob.  Do I need to move stuff from Monitor Store to Monitor?  How do I control the frame rate?  Do I need to adjust the display mode[/resolution; is there a difference?] before I get a picture on the monitor?  If it just involves adjusting resolutions on the Amiga, then the only options I have are NTSC hired and interlace, and nothing works.  I've gone through every 60/70 mode and neither works.

It looks like I was misled, though, the Viewsonic looks like it cannot do 50hz.  Both monitors seem to have settings that variably use 60hz (but it doesn't work on either).  Clearly my 1704FPT is actually getting some type of signal.  So I guess I'll look for another screen tomorrow.

[guest11527]

You need to treat me like a total noob.

Well, essentially, based on your questions... you know, what else would you expect....  

Do I need to move stuff from Monitor Store to Monitor?  

Once again: No.  

How do I control the frame rate?  

You don't. PAL is 50Hz, NTSC is 60Hz. There is no other way of control. That are also the only modes the 2320 can handle.  

Do I need to adjust the display mode[/resolution; is there a difference?]

No. Pick a NTSC screen. Make sure the 2320 is *on* (switch in the back). Make sure it is properly seated. Make sure you connect to the right plug (yes, it is the VGA plug that comes out of the 2320), with the right cable (a standard PC VGA cable).  

before I get a picture on the monitor?  If it just involves adjusting resolutions on the Amiga, then the only options I have are NTSC hired and interlace, and nothing works.  

If you've checked all the points above I mentioned, and you've tested on another monitor, then the 2320 is just broken. Happens with old hardware.

[raoulduke]

Thanks.  Wait...  I only get two options - both NTSC options - in the Screen Mode Pref.  Is that because it's detecting the A520 but not a monitor?  In other words, if it detects a valid VGA monitor (and also, of course, the A2320) then other options will pop up on the Amiga?

I assume there's no problem with simultaneously outputting via the A520 and the A2320 (?).  I just tried all my monitors with just the vga cable and then checked with mono to see if there were any other options, which there were not.  But I don't really have a good conception of how this is supposed to work other than turn it on and it works...

So to return to the issue, I'm still looking for a VGA monitor that can support 50hz vertical?  That's not really an NTSC or PAL thing.

[guest11527]

Thanks.  Wait...  I only get NTSC; is that a model issue and not a mode issue (I'm in the US)?  And if NTSC is only 60hz and my monitors can do 60hz... that doesn't seem great.

NTSC = 60Hz is ok for most monitors. I say "most" because the output generated by the 2320 is scan-doubled 60Hz NTSC, which is "almost, but not quite" VGA. Hence, if your monitor is really picky, it might not be able to synchronize to this signal. Actually, I have never seen this happening, but in principle, it might be possible if the monitor requires the precise VGA timing.

There is no need to try the PAL modes, and whether you pick interlace or hi-res makes no difference. The output signal timing is exactly the same for both.

So other than the specific models Matt_H listed, what should I be looking for?  

Only what I already said. Make sure the monitor is connected to the right output (that of the 2320) with the right cable (VGA), the input of the monitor selects the VGA input (not HDMI, not DVI, not DP, not SCART), and the 2320 is turned *on* (note the switch on the back).

If *that* doesn't give you a picture, then either your monitor doesn't like the signal (unlikely, but possible) or the 2320 is just broken (also happens).  

And I can get a CRT; I just don't see that as a great solution.  And will any of this be a problem for the Amiga to VGA cable converter (just a cable)?

Look, if you believe you need an Amiga to VGA cable converter, you did not read responses properly. Once again: Do *NOT* connect the monitor to the "MONITOR" output of the Amiga. This is the *wrong* output. Connect it to the VGA output on the back of the 2320. You do not need a VGA cable converter for that. The output of the 2320 is a standard VGA plug, not a 25-pin Amiga MONITOR plug. You need a standard, off-the shelve, VGA cable. There is no converter needed, neither for the monitor, nor for the 2320. It is a standard cable you can pick up for a few bucks in the next electronics store.

Leave the MONITOR output of the Amiga open. Do not connect anything to this output anymore. You don't need the MONITOR output. Use the VGA output of the 2320. There is only one plug in the back of the 2320, and that's the right plug for the VGA cable. Attach it with the little screws on the back, fit the cart firmly into the computer. That's all what is needed.

If your TV or your monitor does not have a VGA input, you cannot connect it to the 2320. Do not try to fit a SCART connector by adapters to the 2320, this wouldn't work. A standard VGA cable, one end in the 2320, the other in the monitor, will do. Nothing else needed.

[raoulduke]

I finished editing way before you posted...  sorry.  But thank you for the info

[and lol.  I got the Amiga to VGA cable because this doesn't seem to be working.  It'd be pretty nice to be able to use my current second monitor that's on my desk rather than a gigantic television.  I also suspect the resolution is likely better?  I think we may be speaking past each other, I'll grant you that.  But I'm not sure it's because I'm not reading the responses.]

Okay it's very clear I misled you by asking you to treat me as a noob and that you didn't read my context there or my follow-ups about it.  I am explaining to you that I am not familiar with the Amiga operating system.  I got very, very angry writing the follow-up.  So suffice it to say either I have failed to include any relevant information with respect to how I've been testing this system, or you have not read my posts.  I will post only to confirm success.  Thank you again for the information.

Maybe it was me.  The A520 and the mono output are both via composite...  It's nice to see the screen, so I've been using those.  I was curious if using those while testing the A2320 might interfere with the A2320.  It doesn't matter, none of the 3 VGA monitors I've tested it on work.

[paul1981]

Your Amiga won't mind or even know that you're using the A520 and/or the A2320 output or even the mono composite output.

As Mike said earlier, if you'd like the best picture on a VGA monitor you'd be best to purchase an IndivisionECS.

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=918

If you want a new monitor, then you might want to read this thread from start to end:

http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?72457-BenQ-BL702A-perfect-monitor-for-amigas

BenQ BL702A does work with the Amiga series without anything extra, but you will need a buffered VGA converter adapter for your Amiga video output port on 'big box' Amiga's, as yours is an A2000. Read the last page regarding the Dell monitor... it gives the best picture by far but it doesn't remember screen position!

I'd sway towards an Indivision. But, how about getting a 1084S or something for the authentic experience?

[Matt_H]

Also have a look at the 2320 manual: http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a2320

[utri007]

If you are located to Europa, you could also use bog cheap SCART cable to connect it to your LCD-TV. Most of them works also as a flicker fixer.

[raoulduke]

Matt_H, thanks.  I had browsed through the manual but I read it in more detail and tried random stuff like changing the jumper to openloop for the same tests I'd done with it on closedloop as its default; checked the J300 jumper on the 2000's motherboard.  Utri007, I've tired it on like 6/7 monitors one of which was a TV, but I'm in the US.

Thanks Paul; the manual also mentions that mono/Amiga display port connections don't interfere.  But i had missed that at first.  I've gotten a bunch of monitors at this point, the last of which - a Dell E773c has a vertical frequency scanning range that starts at 50hz.  Unless I'm misunderstanding the vertical frequency scanning range thing on the E773c (like unless that doesn't mean it supports 50hz, but I think it means that it does) I think that's a definitive failure with the card.  The E773c senses that its VGA cable is connected but otherwise gets no signal.

But I also think Thomas Richter has a point; I think I probably wouldn't have gotten no indication of a signal even if the monitor didn't support 50hz (maybe I'm wrong); but also monitors that at least claim to support a 50hz vertical scanning frequency are not necessarily easy to find (the first CRT I bought today only went down to 55).  Pity; but ... lucky I ordered that Amiga to VGA adapter cable...  Thanks for your help guys.

[Matt_H]

Unfortunately, I don't think the Amiga-to-VGA adapter is going to solve your problems unless it's the so-called Commodore silverbox adapter (or compatible - there are a few) and your monitor is capable of 15KHz horizontal. The straight-through 23-pin to 15-pin converters don't work on A2000s (or at least, not on mine) and will prevent the machine from booting - something to do with the machine's genlock features. The silverbox contains some extra circuitry to deal with this issue. The straight-through pin adapters do work on later Amigas.

Actually, speaking of genlock issues, have you been running all your tests with the A520 still connected? Just a thought, but try booting up without it and see if it makes a difference. It shouldn't, but if you've tried every other variable...

After that, I think it's time to start playing with the 2320's potentiometer per the manual. While CRTs used to display garbage if something wasn't calibrated correctly, LCDs tend to just give up and not display anything.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I've tired it on like 6/7 monitors one of which was a TV, but I'm in the US.

Thanks Paul; the manual also mentions that mono/Amiga display port connections don't interfere.  But i had missed that at first.  I've gotten a bunch of monitors at this point, the last of which - a Dell E773c has a vertical frequency scanning range that starts at 50hz.  Unless I'm misunderstanding the vertical frequency scanning range thing on the E773c (like unless that doesn't mean it supports 50hz, but I think it means that it does) I think that's a definitive failure with the card.  The E773c senses that its VGA cable is connected but otherwise gets no signal.

Why are you trying to get 50Hz?  You're in the US, get it working at 60Hz (NTSC) before you muck around with PAL settings.

IMHO if you've tried it with seven different monitors and none of them produce a picture (and you've confirmed that the monitors and cables otherwise work), the card is probably toast.

[Matt_H]

Why are you trying to get 50Hz?  You're in the US, get it working at 60Hz (NTSC) before you muck around with PAL settings.

IMHO if you've tried it with seven different monitors and none of them produce a picture (and you've confirmed that the monitors and cables otherwise work), the card is probably toast.

The 50Hz stuff was just a diagnostic approach on the (since nullified) assumption that this was a PAL machine in Europe - wanted to rule out a 50Hz-incapable monitor as the cause of no display. Now we're onto the hard stuff!

[QuikSanz]

Amber is from around 1990.Caps?

[raoulduke]

I was going to ask about caps.  I think there are really just those two (http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/a2320,1), but I can replace them.  They smell fine but without (your) help I don't really know how to diagnose any of the issues with the card.  I can replace the two caps though.

Matt_H I didn't realize you were working on the assumption that it might be a PAL issue; I could have told you it wasn't.  I got it from its original owner here in New Jersey.  But he hadn't used it in a long time; I'm not sure he realized what condition it was in (regardless of the card), and it also had battery corrosion damage.

Is it possible that traces around the battery affect the display port?  My other thought in addition to the card itself was that the port may not work (properly).

And as for the cable; I just realized I bought a 23-pin to 9-pin VGA... so... but it'll make it slightly easier to graft a homebrew adapter onto the end of it.  Part of the circuit diagram for (essentially) the silverbox is here: http://eab.abime.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=16650&d=1211448710 , and you add a 100uf according to them cap between the VCC and GND.  What does that mean 5v 100uf, then?

And the silverbox looks like it also has extra circuitry on the underside.  What's the deal with that and how limited would that homebrew adapter be?  (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=36781)  I feel like they were saying it wasn't working properly at 15khz; does that mean it'll only work at 30khz?  Or ... what am I missing here.  Is it just not possible to adapt to VGA...?