Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology

[Iggy]

Further development of AmigaOS 3.X?
AmigaOS 4.1 68K?

Hmm, the first can't be done (unless you ask Cloanto), and the second is unlikely as it would undercut Hyperion's PPC product.

[broadblues]

Further development of AmigaOS 3.X?
AmigaOS 4.1 68K?

Hmm, the first can't be done (unless you ask Cloanto), and the second is unlikely as it would undercut Hyperion's PPC product.

Hyperion could do it if they wanted, though I really doubt they do.

It wouldn't solve anything though, as you would still get loads on non upgraders and grumbled at for not back porting your software, even though makes use of the new and cool things that come along in a growing (even if slower than we;d like) OS.

[matthey]

Hyperion could do it if they wanted, though I really doubt they do.

We know Hyperion's position was to only develop AmigaOS for PPC until the end but that end came and they were bailed out by A-EON. Hyperion may only be a software house for A-EON now. If A-EON is not smart and bets only on a dying one trick pony then someone else will end up with the technology.

It wouldn't solve anything though, as you would still get loads on non upgraders and grumbled at for not back porting your software, even though makes use of the new and cool things that come along in a growing (even if slower than we;d like) OS.

AmigaOS 4 has become bloated and slow even for PPC (MorphOS is significantly faster in most benchmarks). This is a challenge for a 68k AmigaOS where users care more about efficiency. Change is needed but there is a resistance to change so the AmigaOS will likely die on PPC in the hands of a small group called Hyperion doing the same things that forced them into bankruptcy before they were rescued. All aboard for developers outside this time warp bubble to somehow rescue them though.

[Iggy]

@ matthey

But its REAL Amiga OS (OS4), they don't have time for, uh real...Amiga...OS.
Huh?

And A-eon doesn't depend completely on Hyperion, except for their entire primary OS.
They could depend on MorphOS (at least until that fragments into support for two ISAs with the emphasis on the newer one).
But, then there is the challenge faced when deciding whether or not to support that new stink bomb they dropped with Tabor.

Legacy guys don't really care about all this (especially those that think WarpOS is going to come racing back to their rescue).

But its an interesting point.
A lot lies on Hyperion's continued existence.

I don't want to see them going anywhere.

[Yasu]

Not wanting to create even further confusion but....

The call for developers covers all Amiga flavours. The wiki referred to in the A-EON news release is the A-EON specific developer wiki not the excellent AmigaOS 4 wiki.  The A-EON wiki is for developers working our specific 68k and PowerPC applications.

TrevorD

Knowing a little more now what's going on behind the scenes, I'm looking forward to the fruits of this endevor. I hope this will - eventually - end the camp wars. But maybe it's as futile as the idea that Esperanto would lead to world peace

[OlafS3]

@ matthey

But its REAL Amiga OS (OS4), they don't have time for, uh real...Amiga...OS.
Huh?

And A-eon doesn't depend completely on Hyperion, except for their entire primary OS.
They could depend on MorphOS (at least until that fragments into support for two ISAs with the emphasis on the newer one).
But, then there is the challenge faced when deciding whether or not to support that new stink bomb they dropped with Tabor.

Legacy guys don't really care about all this (especially those that think WarpOS is going to come racing back to their rescue).

But its an interesting point.
A lot lies on Hyperion's continued existence.

I don't want to see them going anywhere.

I know that you prefer NG but I have a good reason for "classic": users and thus potential customers

I recently joined the closed facebook group "CommodoreAmiga"

pure "classic" and almost 11.000 users

and that despite by far not everyone uses facebook for different reasons

[ppcamiga1]

After reading this whole thread.  

AmigaOS 4 for 68k is pointless because 68k is too slow.  

Fastest avaible real 68k cpu has 486 level performance.  

AROS 68k developers try to do it, they failded AROS 68k is too slow on real 68k.    

Yes, many years ago  gunnar von boehn promise that his wonderfull natami/apollo outrun powerpc processors but after many years of lies and false promises, fastest avaible 68k 68060 is still slower than first pentium, and hundred times slower than powerpc processors.  

68k users have to accept that making software for real 68k has no sense because because 68k is too slow.

[OlafS3]

After reading this whole thread.  

AmigaOS 4 for 68k is pointless because 68k is too slow.  

Fastest avaible real 68k cpu has 486 level performance.  

AROS 68k developers try to do it, they failded AROS 68k is too slow on real 68k.    

Yes, many years ago  gunnar von boehn promise that his wonderfull natami/apollo outrun powerpc processors but after many years of lies and false promises, fastest avaible 68k 68060 is still slower than first pentium, and hundred times slower than powerpc processors.  

68k users have to accept that making software for real 68k has no sense because because 68k is too slow.

you seem to pollute every forum...

PPC is as retro as 68k in todays world just that 68k has more geek factor. You see that when you look where companies invest in new processor generations. But this is not the topic of the thread.

[Iggy]

you seem to pollute every forum...

PPC is as retro as 68k in todays world just that 68k has more geek factor. You see that when you look where companies invest in new processor generations. But this is not the topic of the thread.

Olaf, that is not even close to true.
To stick with 68K, yeah you have to be a geek.

But when your 68K has multi-core, can run at over 2 GHz, can run 64 bit code, or address the amount of memory modern processor can, let me know.

68Ks are eol'd, Coldfire is soon to follow, but there are still a few PPC products yet to be introduced, and we haven't even modernized AmigaOS and its related OS' to take advantage of things we have, let alone what we could have with the e6500 cored products.

Sure, port Amiga OS4.1 to the 68K, where it will be too slow to run properly.
And once OS4.2 is released, it will be obsolete.

AND X64 IS the eventual goal, but not right now.

I'm really going to enjoy the next major step in MorphOS' evolution.
That should be able to handle 68K, PPC, and X64 code.

[ppcamiga1]

PPC is as retro as 68k in todays world  

It is simple. you have not any ppc computer.

And you know nothing about it speed.

[ppcamiga1]

To stick with 68K, yeah you have to be a geek.

Real 68k is ancient crap slower than first pentium.

My g4 is still faster than the slowest new PC laptops.

[Thorham]

To stick with 68K, yeah you have to be a geek.

Welcome to Amiga land

68k users have to accept that making software for real 68k has no sense because because 68k is too slow.

Utter bull, 68k is awesome and worth writing software for.

[Iggy]

...Utter bull, 68k is awesome and worth writing software for.

This, again oddly, I agree with.
Coding for the 68K family is still a lot of fun for me.
AND its the last processor I bothered to learn to write assembly code on.
It is really quite elegant.

One of the best things Motorola ever created.

Remember, PPCs weren't invented by Motorola/Freescale.

Real 68k is ancient crap slower than first pentium.

My g4 is still faster than the slowest new PC laptops.

You DO realize the Pentium was introduced after the 68K series, don't you?
A fairer comparison would be, say, a '486.
And until Intel introduced the '386 they were SO far behind that they couldn't even run some code that was possible on 68K.
Why do you think Windows 3.0 (and yeah, I said 3.0, 3.1 was a bug fix) almost requires a '386 or higher?

[ppcamiga1]

Welcome to Amiga land


Utter bull, 68k is awesome and worth writing software for.

Utter bull, 68k is underpowered not worth of use crap

[matthey]

But when your 68K has multi-core, can run at over 2 GHz, can run 64 bit code, or address the amount of memory modern processor can, let me know.

The AmigaOS used to be efficient enough and scalable enough to run on a 68000@7.14MHz with 256kB of memory. Now we need a 2 GHz clock speed and more than 4 GB of memory?

Sure, port Amiga OS4.1 to the 68K, where it will be too slow to run properly.
And once OS4.2 is released, it will be obsolete.

Different build scripts and conditional preprocessor directives would be necessary in some cases but most of the high level OS components should compile as is. I would hope AmigaOS 4 doesn't use a bunch of GCCisms as other compilers may generate better quality code for the 68k.

AND X64 IS the eventual goal, but not right now.

I hope not but it would be good to make the AmigaOS more portable in case of a processor switch. IMO, moving to x86_64 would divide what is left of the Amiga even more, a 64 bit little endian AmigaOS with SMP support would not be compatible with anything and the Amiga would lose most of what is left of its uniqueness.

Real 68k is ancient crap slower than first pentium.

My g4 is still faster than the slowest new PC laptops.

The 68060 is on par with a Pentium and the G4 is on par with a Pentium III. The only new laptops/netbooks as weak as a G4 are Atom or ARM based. Any feel of a G4 being faster than modern PC laptops is probably due to a more efficient OS. If you want to further talk hardware, please use the thread Eliyahu created for that purpose.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=69986&page=4

[eliyahu]

@ppcamiga1

ok. thanks for giving us such an excellent demonstration of trolling. nicely done. see you in a few days.

-- eliyahu