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Offline wawrzon

Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #239 on: February 16, 2015, 03:09:15 PM »
Quote from: vidarh;784382
A bankruptcy claim is not something you generally go around shouting from the rooftops, exactly because of the type of reactions we see here.

yes, but for exactly this reason they would have to issue a note on this, knowing it will now at least take time to handle it, if at all. it would have been discovered sooner or later.
 

Offline eliyahu

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #240 on: February 16, 2015, 03:31:28 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;784384
you have no money invested in them? i thought you have a 3000$  computer dedicated to run system they provide? well, if this is nothing,  then i envy you.
no, i don't have a $3000 system dedicated to  running AOS. but even if i did it's not an 'investment,' it's a purchase  of a consumable item. i also have blackberries, two cars, and some  lovely new dishes. they're not an investment either.  ;)

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this dosnt mean, it is likely. look, a secretary that doesnt  immediately froward the most significant writing, one that contains the  company to be or not to be clause, to his boss must be either nuts or  ill willed. a boss that hires such an employee must be at least very  naive, sorry. it is really telling about the degraded state of affairs.
it  certainly doesn't speak well for the agent, no. i'd expect they've been  sacked after this -- again, assuming the story is true, which i tend to  think it is.

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and especially seeing the issue is serious, one of they first  steps towards the community, if they care for them and their loyalty at  all, would be to issue official explanation note on the subject, rather  than let their followers repeat out of context what they posted or said  somewhere in the hidden.
absolutely! you couldn't be more correct here.

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Offline vidarh

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #241 on: February 16, 2015, 03:41:14 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;784384

now, one can get hit by a car, fly over it, land behind on his back, stand up and start the quarrel with its driver. it happened to me twenty years ago. this dosnt mean, it is likely. look, a secretary that doesnt immediately froward the most significant writing, one that contains the company to be or not to be clause, to his boss must be either nuts or ill willed. a boss that hires such an employee must be at least very naive, sorry. it is really telling about the degraded state of affairs.


I get that it seems odd, but clearly you don't have experience with this, or you would have known that it is a relatively frequent occurrence.  There are many reasons for using a company handling agent of some form, but ensuring prompt and speedy mail delivery is not one of them, and it would not at all be unusual for whomever signed for the summons to not know that it was particularly urgent. Furthermore, assuming what Hermans has said is true, that person would not be a Hyperion employee, but an employee of a company that normally handle their administrative matters (this is also a relatively common arrangement).

Failure to appear because of late delivery of papers happens fairly regularly in bankruptcy cases, because timelines on purpose are often short because it is cheaper to rectify after the fact.

If Hermans' claims are true, it at most tells you something about the "degraded state of affairs" of the company handling their administrative matters.

You may very well have legitimate issues to be unhappy with Hyperion, but absent actual facts, this is not a reason. Not yet, anyway. We'll see soon enough.

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and especially seeing the issue is serious, one of they first steps towards the community, if they care for them and their loyalty at all, would be to issue official explanation note on the subject, rather than let their followers repeat out of context what they posted or said somewhere in the hidden.


Their first responsibility is *to the business*. If you're subject to what you believe to be a wrongful bankruptcy declaration, the last thing you should be doing is *actually* damaging the company by drawing peoples attention to it unnecessarily, or you may very easily find yourself bankrupt through your own stupidity even if the original claim is closed.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #242 on: February 16, 2015, 03:55:07 PM »
Quote
Their first responsibility is *to the business*. If you're subject to what you believe to be a wrongful bankruptcy declaration, the last thing you should be doing is *actually* damaging the company by drawing peoples attention to it unnecessarily, or you may very easily find yourself bankrupt through your own stupidity even if the original claim is closed.


and since their business seems to be bound to their target audience, the most damaging is to appear dishonest to them. which is as it is looking like now.
 

Offline Boot_WB

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #243 on: February 16, 2015, 04:10:30 PM »
Quote from: vidarh;784393
I get that it seems odd, but clearly you don't have experience with this, or you would have known that it is a relatively frequent occurrence.  There are many reasons for using a company handling agent of some form, but ensuring prompt and speedy mail delivery is not one of them, and it would not at all be unusual for whomever signed for the summons to not know that it was particularly urgent. Furthermore, assuming what Hermans has said is true, that person would not be a Hyperion employee, but an employee of a company that normally handle their administrative matters (this is also a relatively common arrangement).

Failure to appear because of late delivery of papers happens fairly regularly in bankruptcy cases, because timelines on purpose are often short because it is cheaper to rectify after the fact.

If Hermans' claims are true, it at most tells you something about the "degraded state of affairs" of the company handling their administrative matters.

You may very well have legitimate issues to be unhappy with Hyperion, but absent actual facts, this is not a reason. Not yet, anyway. We'll see soon enough.



Their first responsibility is *to the business*. If you're subject to what you believe to be a wrongful bankruptcy declaration, the last thing you should be doing is *actually* damaging the company by drawing peoples attention to it unnecessarily, or you may very easily find yourself bankrupt through your own stupidity even if the original claim is closed.


Actually the last thing one should be doing is pretending to still speak on behalf of the company.

All officers are suspended, the only person who can speak for Hyperion is the administrator.
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Offline dammy

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #244 on: February 16, 2015, 04:10:55 PM »
Quote from: vidarh;784373
All that is required to have standing to begin bankruptcy proceedings generally is for the company to have an outstanding, unsettled debt to you. E.g. paying an invoice too late and not heeding whatever statutory required warnings to pay.

Creditors are not third party.   If you pay your debt late, how could they take you to bankruptcy court?  They can't.  If you haven't paid a bill can they take you to court for bankruptcy?  No, you take them to court and get a ruling from the court that they owe you money and then you proceed to collections phase.  Which will take years and more court hearing to shake any money out of the debtor which is why most business will right it off as a loss since they will spend more money then they could ever get back.

Ben didn't show up, but the court ruled against him (which is standard), but the Third Party would have to show Hyperion's financial records in order to convince a judge that the company is insolvent.  That's the riddle with this, how does a third party get standing to take Hyperion to court and to show a judge that it's reasonable and prudent to rule the company is insolvent without proof?  Third Party is not a creditor (if it was, it wouldn't be a third party) so what is it's interest (and the legal standing) to proceed with the hearing?

Obviously this key bit of information Ben doesn't want to share with us.
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Offline Lionheart

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #245 on: February 16, 2015, 04:18:40 PM »
Quote from: spudje;784377
The latest A-EON press release of OctaMED acquisition (and maybe previous ones too) states "Expect to see more software acquisitions in the future." So would one of these be AOS4.x??? Hehehehe... just feeding this thread a bit more :P


At this point A-Eon would be better off buying MorphOS, getting a license to use the AmigaOS name from Amiga Inc., and renaming it AmigaOS while still offering an edition called MorphOS for PowerPC computers outside their own.  This way Amiga Inc. only owns the name, not the technology.  




Quote from: eliyahu;784390
no, i don't have a $3000 system dedicated to  running AOS. but even if i did it's not an 'investment,' it's a purchase  of a consumable item. i also have blackberries, two cars, and some  lovely new dishes. they're not an investment either.  ;)


Last time I checked Hyperion's OS4 cost around $150, which was added to the price of each X1000 sold.   So if you invested in an X1000 you invested in OS4, which is pretty much the only reason to buy one.
 

Offline Yasu

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #246 on: February 16, 2015, 04:31:41 PM »
Quote from: Lionheart;784398
At this point A-Eon would be better off buying MorphOS, getting a license to use the AmigaOS name from Amiga Inc., and renaming it AmigaOS while still offering an edition called MorphOS for PowerPC computers outside their own.  This way Amiga Inc. only owns the name, not the technology.

That's pretty close what actually happened in the late 90's. Amiga Inc. approached the MorphOS developers to ask them about making their OS the new AmigaOS. They talked about it, got a contract they couldn't agree on and Amiga Inc. found Hyperion instead. So if things had been a little different, we would all have used MorphOS as AmigaOS today. Makes you think, doesn't it :)

[Edit] The MorphOS Team will most probably not sell their OS. They are fiercely independent. But it wouldn't hurt A-Eon to ask/pay them to port MorphOS to their computers too. It will give MorphOS more new hardware (besides the upcoming SAM 460 support) and A-Eon get more potential costumers. And hopefully it would help cross platform porting of software, ending this endless and tiresome sandbox sized bickering.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 04:34:52 PM by Yasu »
 

Offline danbeaver

Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #247 on: February 16, 2015, 04:33:48 PM »
Well, that is one opinion.

Even if all this negativism is true (which IMHO it is speculative at best), the Amiga in concept and form has survived.

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Offline Rob

Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #248 on: February 16, 2015, 04:40:44 PM »
Quote from: dammy;784397
Creditors are not third party.   If you pay your debt late, how could they take you to bankruptcy court?  They can't.


Evert Carton seems to disagree with you there Dammy and I think he's in a much better position to know about Belgian law than you.

The important part;

"it says, that some creditor, and no, it wasn't me, stepped to the Court, asking for a bankruptcy declaration of Hyperion."


The full post
 

Offline eliyahu

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #249 on: February 16, 2015, 04:44:49 PM »
Quote from: danbeaver;784402
Well, that is one opinion.

Even if all this negativism is true (which IMHO it is speculative at best), the Amiga in concept and form has survived.

[New dishes are great too; milch fleisch parve pesach, its all good]
agreed. oh, and they're for shabbos, so fleisch. ;)

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Offline Manu

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #250 on: February 16, 2015, 04:45:55 PM »
Quote from: Yasu;784401
That's pretty close what actually happened in the late 90's. Amiga Inc. approached the MorphOS developers to ask them about making their OS the new AmigaOS. They talked about it, got a contract they couldn't agree on and Amiga Inc. found Hyperion instead. So if things had been a little different, we would all have used MorphOS as AmigaOS today. Makes you think, doesn't it :)


Absolutely, many whine about being 3 NG OS's. Well this is what happened and there's no going back, maybe the biggest reason we ended up in this mess is Hyperion so maybe they deserve a bankruptcy after all these years, you can't honestly say they've run their business with success. If they stayed away maybe the real AmigaOS that became MorphOS could have come to an agreement at a later negotiations and we wouldn't even know of this split.

Less and less people buy into OS4 and when asked for reasons why they blame it on the other NG OS'es but fail to see that in year 2015 people can't justify 3000 euros for average computer hardware so the user base can only shrink. It has became a rich mans hobby.
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Offline danbeaver

Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #251 on: February 16, 2015, 04:56:29 PM »
Quote from: Manu;784409
...

Less and less people buy into OS4 and when asked for reasons why they blame it on the other NG OS'es but fail to see that in year 2015 people can't justify 3000 euros for average computer hardware so the user base can only shrink. It has became a rich mans hobby.

This is one person's opinion, but not so rich men spend 3 grand on gaming rigs to squeak an extra frame per second out of a game all the time; so the Amiga should be the hobby of only the poor, the uneducated, the huddled masses?

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Offline Yasu

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #252 on: February 16, 2015, 04:58:46 PM »
@Manu

But it's perfectly possible that it's this hostility, or competition that has made the 3 OS'es come as far as they have. Sparring each other, taking crap from the others and feeling an need to prove their system better. So maybe, just maybe, without the 3 OS'es around to spill their anger towards each other we might have had one OS that gave up somewhere halfway without ever being useful, and the remaining users sticking with retro or fading away.

We just don't know. But we shouldn't assume that the current situation is the worst possible. This might just be the middle ground :)
 

Offline Rob

Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #253 on: February 16, 2015, 05:00:14 PM »
Quote from: Manu;784409
Absolutely, many whine about being 3 NG OS's. Well this is what happened and there's no going back, maybe the biggest reason we ended up in this mess is Hyperion so maybe they deserve a bankruptcy after all these years, you can't honestly say they've run their business with success. If they stayed away maybe the real AmigaOS that became MorphOS could have come to an agreement at a later negotiations and we wouldn't even know of this split.

Less and less people buy into OS4 and when asked for reasons why they blame it on the other NG OS'es but fail to see that in year 2015 people can't justify 3000 euros for average computer hardware so the user base can only shrink. It has became a rich mans hobby.


The blame lies with the weak leadership of Amiga Inc and their lack of any real interest in the existing IP.
 

Offline giZmo350

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #254 from previous page: February 16, 2015, 05:03:47 PM »
Why do you guys keep posting about a situation of which you don't have the facts?

It's not like an apple is going to fall your head! :lol:
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