Hyperion bankrupt?

[Iggy]

Sooo, people my REALLY love Hyperion then?

Not at all.
Frankly, were it possible, I'd like to see the moon fall on Ben.
However, this doesn't affect the fact that this legal proceeding is not significant.

AND, their are a few OS4 developers I actually like (even if they are using/developing the worse of the NG alternatives).

[Manu]

Not at all.
Frankly, were it possible, I'd like to see the moon fall on Ben.
However, this doesn't affect the fact that this legal proceeding is not significant.

AND, their are a few OS4 developers I actually like (even if they are using/developing the worse of the NG alternatives).

How can you be so sure it's not significant. Do you have some inside information we don't have ?

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Frankly, were it possible, I'd like to see the moon fall on Ben.

That's a lot of animosity there!  Geeze you guys, it's only a computer operating system, after all!  :lol:

[dammy]

Not at all.
Frankly, were it possible, I'd like to see the moon fall on Ben.
However, this doesn't affect the fact that this legal proceeding is not significant.

Being taken to court in a forced bankruptcy is significant if actually leads to a hearing.  Being taken to court by a third party (which has standing to do so) and having the court agree that the company is insolvent and assign a curator is devastating.  This is not a couple of clicks of the mouse on a government db, this involves man power (I don't know how Belgium works their curator, but in the USA, curator's fees/costs are taken out of liquidation money) and such will build momentum to get this shoved through the system and finalized.

Curator will more then likely be auditing Hyperion's books, which may prove to be interesting in itself.

[Rob]

Being taken to court in a forced bankruptcy is significant if actually leads to a hearing.  Being taken to court by a third party (which has standing to do so) and having the court agree that the company is insolvent and assign a curator is devastating.  This is not a couple of clicks of the mouse on a government db, this involves man power (I don't know how Belgium works their curator, but in the USA, curator's fees/costs are taken out of liquidation money) and such will build momentum to get this shoved through the system and finalized.

Curator will more then likely be auditing Hyperion's books, which may prove to be interesting in itself.

If it's just a case of proving that key paperwork wasn't handed to Ben on time and he is able to pay the creditor then it is not significant.

If they can't do the above then it becomes significant but reports so far suggest it isn't at that stage.

Anyway I thought you'd be furious about this.  Big gubmint interfering with business and all that.

[Faerytale]

First bowl of popcorn empty! *running for som pepsi*

[dammy]

If it's just a case of proving that key paperwork wasn't handed to Ben on time and he is able to pay the creditor then it is not significant.

I thought Ben said it was a third party (vs a creditor)?  Just who is this third party that has standing with the courts to force Hyperion into bankruptcy?  

If they can't do the above then it becomes significant but reports so far suggest it isn't at that stage.

It if was just a creditor looking for their money, perhaps if it was insignificant if the debt was settled prior to the hearing. But this, in Ben's words, is a third party and they had the courts agree with them. Courts have assigned a curator who is calling for all claims against Hyperion and decide if liquidation is the only possible reasonable outcome.  That sounds damn significant in my opinion.

Anyway I thought you'd be furious about this.  Big gubmint interfering with business and all that.

Should you, as the big government cheerleader, be happy this has happened?  Or are you just holding off until big government has audited all the accounting for tax purposes and has liquidated Hyperion?  Now that's the power of Big Government only a Statist could love.

[vidarh]

Being taken to court in a forced bankruptcy is significant if actually leads to a hearing.  Being taken to court by a third party (which has standing to do so) and having the court agree that the company is insolvent and assign a curator is devastating.  

All that is required to have standing to begin bankruptcy proceedings generally is for the company to have an outstanding, unsettled debt to you. E.g. paying an invoice too late and not heeding whatever statutory required warnings to pay.

In many countries, getting a hearing requires no more than paying a tiny fee and filling out a form.

Getting a finding of bankruptcy requires pretty much no evidence if the other party for whatever reason doesn't show up - which is not *that* unusual in the case of small companies - the scenario Hyperion has described where their registered seat/office is with a management company that has failed to pass on a document is definitively plausible (though that doesn't mean it can't also be a made up excuse).

No matter how much people here want this to be very serious, it is only serious if Hyperion actually is insolvent (and it's certainly possible they are, but as of now we don't know) and/or doesn't handle it properly.

[wawrzon]

If it's just a case of proving that key paperwork wasn't handed to Ben on time and he is able to pay the creditor then it is not significant.

sorry but it sounds like the most dumb excuse one could come up with. im pretty sure the bankruptcy procedure doesnt just get started with a single bill paid a bit too late, as it seems to be suggested here and mindlessly repeated forever. the problems and the behaviour must have been notorious and therefore even if complete liquidation could be avoided this time it suggests it can happen again any other day soon. it definitely is an indication that the company is in very poor state. that means that any (further) investments will likely be lost. and i am not only speaking of money but also of feelings and contributions.

[wawrzon]

... and/or doesn't handle it properly.

they already didnt handle it properly since they let it happen to be declared bankrupt. not getting papers handed over on time.. mygod.. how much absent minded they must be. and the particular notion to hide this state of affairs from the community of people who depend on them, at least for the time being, since it would come out one day or another, indicates it is some sort of playing for time.

[vidarh]

I thought Ben said it was a third party (vs a creditor)?  Just who is this third party that has standing with the courts to force Hyperion into bankruptcy?  

What reason do you have to think a "third party" does not refer to a creditor? I read "third party" to mean "someone not the government *or* Hyperion". A reason for not referring to them as a creditor may be that Hyperion believes their claim to be invalid. But to the court they will be a creditor if they claim to be one and Hyperion isn't there to dispute it.

It if was just a creditor looking for their money, perhaps if it was insignificant if the debt was settled prior to the hearing. But this, in Ben's words, is a third party and they had the courts agree with them.

The courts agreed with the "third party" because Hyperion by their own admission was not represented at the hearing. According to Hyperion this was because the summons was not forwarded to them in time. Whether that is true or not remains to be seen, of course.

If a party does not show up, it is normal in most jurisdictions for many types of cases (including bankruptcy hearings) for the judge to treat the opposing party's evidence as true, and enter judgement accordingly, because the risk of a miscarriage of justice is small (if the company later is found to be solvent, the finding can trivially be reversed and the bankruptcy case closed; if on the other hand the judge does not grant a bankruptcy and it turns out the principals didn't show because they were busy hiding assets, the creditors may lose out big time).
 
Have you actually *dealt* with being on the receiving end of this? I have. As I've said before, it's no big deal *if* they're actually solvent and the story is as they've described it.

[spudje]

The latest A-EON press release of OctaMED acquisition (and maybe previous ones too) states "Expect to see more software acquisitions in the future." So would one of these be AOS4.x??? Hehehehe... just feeding this thread a bit more

[eliyahu]

sorry but it sounds like the most dumb excuse one could come up with. im pretty sure the bankruptcy procedure doesnt just get started with a single bill paid a bit too late, as it seems to be suggested here and mindlessly repeated forever. the problems and the behaviour must have been notorious and therefore even if complete liquidation could be avoided this time it suggests it can happen again any other day soon. it definitely is an indication that the company is in very poor state. that means that any (further) investments will likely be lost. and i am not only speaking of money but also of feelings and contributions.

yeah, i thought the same initially, but then i looked into it with an attorney friend of mine. turns out that ben's story might not be so fishy after all. if he uses an agent for regulatory purposes -- someone who receives official mail, handles tax matters, etc. -- then it's possible that the notice was sent to said address and someone forgot to forward it along. yeah, i know that sounds a little unlikely, but it's possible.

as for being declared insolvent, that's a default judgement. if a creditor steps forward saying that they've submitted a bill a certain number of times, and there's no response, the court starts an inquiry. and if no response is given they can be declared insolvent and bankruptcy proceedings start. but they can still stand up after the fact (at least until the final report is issued) and say, no, we are alive and we can pay the bill, and then everything is overturned.

so it does seem like something from bizarro world, but ben may not be pulling our leg after all. a scenario like this is indeed possible. anyhoo -- the final report is due out in mid-march. so if it's real that hyperion is insolvent we'll know then. and if not, we should know prior to that. the one thing they can't overturn, though, is the potential loss of business this has all caused or the potential damage to their partners. so if it is indeed an issue of someone not forwarding official mail to ben, that 'oversight' has been a damn costly one.

personally since i don't have any money invested with them, i'm not bothered one way or another except that if it is true, then that's very sad for those involved and i feel bad for them. i'd also be worried about where AOS development would go from there, but only the future will tell. this is just a hobby for me, so i'm not terribly worked up about it. i'd recommend that to others, by the way.

-- eliyahu

[vidarh]

they already didnt handle it properly since they let it happen to be declared bankrupt. not getting papers handed over on time..

You can't handle something properly if you don't know about it in the first place.

mygod.. how much absent minded they must be.

If it is the way they described it, then their registered office is a management company or law firm responsible for handling their administrative affairs. That's not at all an unusual arrangement for smaller companies (I've done that with several companies for various reasons). If so, it is not Hyperions fault if that company failed to carry out their job.

It could very well be it was Hyperion that messed up, but we don't have any evidence of that yet.

 and the particular notion to hide this state of affairs from the community of people who depend on them, at least for the time being, since it would come out one day or another, indicates it is some sort of playing for time.

A bankruptcy claim is not something you generally go around shouting from the rooftops, exactly because of the type of reactions we see here.

[wawrzon]

personally since i don't have any money invested with them, i'm not bothered one way or another except that if it is true, then that's very sad for those involved and i feel bad for them. i'd also be worried about where AOS development would go from there, but only the future will tell. this is just a hobby for me, so i'm not terribly worked up about it. i'd recommend that to others, by the way.

-- eliyahu

you have no money invested in them? i thought you have a 3000$ computer dedicated to run system they provide? well, if this is nothing, then i envy you.

now, one can get hit by a car, fly over it, land behind on his back, stand up and start the quarrel with its driver. it happened to me twenty years ago. this dosnt mean, it is likely. look, a secretary that doesnt immediately froward the most significant writing, one that contains the company to be or not to be clause, to his boss must be either nuts or ill willed. a boss that hires such an employee must be at least very naive, sorry. it is really telling about the degraded state of affairs.

and especially seeing the issue is serious, one of they first steps towards the community, if they care for them and their loyalty at all, would be to issue official explanation note on the subject, rather than let their followers repeat out of context what they posted or said somewhere in the hidden.

[wawrzon]

A bankruptcy claim is not something you generally go around shouting from the rooftops, exactly because of the type of reactions we see here.

yes, but for exactly this reason they would have to issue a note on this, knowing it will now at least take time to handle it, if at all. it would have been discovered sooner or later.