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Offline Yasu

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #194 on: February 15, 2015, 12:27:00 PM »
Quote from: amigadave;784201
Do you know what events led up to the judgement?  Do you know that Hyperion was aware of the proceedings, so they could defend their position?  In many places, when one party or the other does not show up in court, a judgement against them is automatic.

I don't have the facts, but have read some unconfirmed reports that court notices may have been delayed from reaching the people who could have stopped this from happening.  I reluctantly share this info, as I don't like to spread unconfirmed information (rumors), until I know the facts.  I encourage everyone to calm down until we know more FACTS!

I'm just having a difficult time accepting the idea that Ben Hermans was one day going to work, whistling some peppy song because everything is going his way. He goes to the office, say hello to his coworkers and recieve the good news that AOS 4FE is selling well. And then he sees a letter at his desk, he opens it and see that the court of Belgium has for no reason at all decleared Hyperion bankrupt.
"There must be some mistake. Why haven't I heard of this matter before? We are paying our bills and our taxes and even making some money". He calls the court and the judge in question tells him:
"Oh, some guy sent us a letter the other day claiming he hasn't been paid and that you have no money to pay him. Because we are the court of Belgium, runned by third rate burocratic saps we of course believed him on the spot and without making any kind of investigation of the state of the company we declared it bankrupt. Because that's what we do. Are you now telling me he was lying? But ... he seemed so honest! I ... Oops, I did it again. File a complaint and maybe, just maybe, we will be nice enough to do our job and fix this. Unless we are out for lunch. Good bye."
Ben Hermans hang up the phone, he stands quiet for some very long seconds shaking, and then shouts "DAMN THIS THIRD WORLD COUNTRY AND IT'S LOUSY JURIDICAL SYSTEM!! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!"

Sure, maybe they will rebound. It's perfectly possible. And I would welcome that for the sake of the community and all the people who wants to use and keep using their favourite OS. But let's face it, unless Belgium is like what I described above then this happened because the court did it's job and came to the conclusion after an investigation that yes, Hyperion is in their conclusion bankrupt.

[Edit] I also have a hard time believe that such a small company forgot to open or lost the hypothetical mail with the court hearing. My dad had a small company and he got some 30 mails a day. He opened all and read most of them. Especially if it seemed important.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 12:41:20 PM by Yasu »
 

Offline Terminills

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #195 on: February 15, 2015, 12:44:16 PM »
Quote from: Yasu;784232
I'm just having a difficult time accepting the idea that Ben Hermans was one day going to work, whistling some peppy song because everything is going his way. He goes to the office, say hello to his coworkers and recieve the good news that AOS 4FE is selling well. And then he sees a letter at his desk, he opens it and see that the court of Belgium has for no reason at all decleared Hyperion bankrupt.
"There must be some mistake. Why haven't I heard of this matter before? We are paying our bills and our taxes and even making some money". He calls the court and the judge in question tells him:
"Oh, some guy sent us a letter the other day claiming he hasn't been paid and that you have no money to pay him. Because we are the court of Belgium, runned by third rate burocratic saps we of course believed him on the spot and without making any kind of investigation of the state of the company we declared it bankrupt. Because that's what we do. Are you now telling me he was lying? But ... he seemed so honest! I ... Oops, I did it again. File a complaint and maybe, just maybe, we will be nice enough to do our job and fix this. Unless we are out for lunch. Good bye."
Ben Hermans hang up the phone, he stands quiet for some very long seconds shaking, and then shouts "DAMN THIS THIRD WORLD COUNTRY AND IT'S LOUSY JURIDICAL SYSTEM!! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!"

Sure, maybe they will rebound. It's perfectly possible. And I would welcome that for the sake of the community and all the people who wants to use and keep using their favourite OS. But let's face it, unless Belgium is like what I described above then this happened because the court did it's job and came to the conclusion after an investigation that yes, Hyperion is in their conclusion bankrupt.

[Edit] I also have a hard time believe that such a small company forgot to open or lost the hypothetical mail with the court hearing. My dad had a small company and he got some 30 mails a day. He opened all and read most of them. Especially if it seemed important.



LMFAO best post ever!
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edited by mod: this has been addressed
 

Offline itix

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #196 on: February 15, 2015, 12:50:29 PM »
Quote from: amigadave;784201
Do you know what events led up to the judgement?  Do you know that Hyperion was aware of the proceedings, so they could defend their position?  In many places, when one party or the other does not show up in court, a judgement against them is automatic.


How can such pro lawyer like Benjamin Hermans miss coming to the court?

Quote
I don't have the facts, but have read some unconfirmed reports that court notices may have been delayed from reaching the people who could have stopped this from happening.  I reluctantly share this info, as I don't like to spread unconfirmed information (rumors), until I know the facts.  I encourage everyone to calm down until we know more FACTS!


it is only a rumor when Hyperion bankruptcy is the fact.
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Offline itix

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #197 on: February 15, 2015, 12:53:53 PM »
Quote from: amigadave;784167
I have been highly critical of Hyperion due to many of their decisions over the last 10+ years, but I agree that lowering the price for AmigaOS4.1FE and making it available for people to run via WinUAE emulation is one of the smartest things they have done in many years, if not the smartest thing they have ever done.


According to Hyperion it is not legal to run OS4 on WinUAE. See EULA on your OS4 DVD.
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #198 on: February 15, 2015, 01:10:55 PM »
Quote from: cpaek72;784030
there is no way I'm going to have the x1000 sent to me with this currently going on. Amigakit is pretty unbelievable. I know they probably need my money, but that's really crossing the ethical line and looking the other way. Am I overreacitng?


No you are certainly not overreacting. It would be outright illegal for them to refuse you a refund! You have up to 14 days *after delivery* to send it back (unused of course) and reclaim a full refund including shipment costs (you pay for the return shipment though). You don't even have to provide a reason, just state that you don't want it anymore and would like a refund. If they are honest they should have already told you everything about this. They also must have provided you with a printed form you can (if you like) use for this purpose.

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/returning-unwanted-goods/index_en.htm


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14 days to withdraw when purchasing goods

In the EU, for contracts concluded as of 13 June 2014, you have the right to withdraw from your online purchase as well as from purchases made elsewhere than in shops (e.g. from a salesman on your doorstep; by phone or mail order) within 14 days.

This “cooling off” period expires 14 days after the day you received your goods. However, if this period expires on a non-working day, your deadline is extended till the next working day.

You can choose to withdraw from your order for any reason within this timeframe - even if you simply changed your mind.

To exercise your right of withdrawal, you must unequivocally inform the trader of your decision to withdraw from the purchase. You can do this, for example, by adding a written statement to the goods that you are returning by post, or by sending a fax or e-mail. It is not enough to just send the goods back. The trader must provide you with a model withdrawal form, which you can use to inform him/her of your withdrawal but you don’t have to use it.

The trader must give you a refund within 14 days from receipt of your withdrawal notification, but can delay refunding you if he/she has not received the goods back or evidence that you have sent them back. This refund must include any shipping charges you paid when you made your purchase. However, the trader may charge you additional delivery costs if you specifically requested non-standard (express) delivery. You will have to pay the costs of returning the goods to the trader.

For bulky goods (such as large household equipment), the trader must give you at least an estimation of the cost of returning the goods. You must send the goods back within 14 days of informing the trader that you wanted to withdraw.

Check that the trader informed you that you would have to bear the cost of sending the goods back during the cooling-off period. If not, he/she must also bear that cost. Bulky goods bought from a door-to-door salesman and delivered to you immediately must, however, be collected by the trader at his own expense."
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #199 on: February 15, 2015, 01:12:39 PM »
Quote from: amigakit;784062
@Kremlar

Before a customer purchases an AmigaONE X1000, in Checkout it states that the build will take up to 10 days, so customers know before they buy it won't be simply pulled off a shelf and packed immediately.  Remember that every X1000 is different, assembled bespoke to the customer's order with care.  This is not a low cost budget PC that is quickly thrown together.


Oh My God, did you just say that?!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

It's a *motherboard*, it has the same form factor, the same screw holes, it fits in standard PC chassis, it has the same connectors, power supply, etc as any PC. This or that GFX card, this or that HDD, this or that optical drive - how does that matter? Anyone with a screw driver and the slightest hunch will put together a PC (which this essentially is, although insanely overprised and severely underpowered) in about *an hour*! You may take up to 10 days to do that job, which is fine I suppose as long as your customers are happy with it, but please don't insult everyone's intelligence by claiming that this divine precious gem of a motherboard would be so special it requires some magical gear, breath from angels, and hair from unicorns to be assembled and that it can only happen when the moon is in a certain phase and aligned with Jupiter. Christ...

:roflmao:
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Offline som99

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #200 on: February 15, 2015, 01:56:05 PM »


Lets see what happens, it's expensive to run that space station ^^
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #201 on: February 15, 2015, 02:32:50 PM »
Quote from: AmigaOldskooler;783978
Hyperion says: "The news of our demise is greatly exaggerated":
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=39913&forum=14&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0#751549

LOL!

Maybe that person (Ben Hermans? Not easy to know with Hyperions constant anonymous posting policy) didn't meant for it to happen, maybe he didn't want it to happen, or maybe he is simply living in denial. Because those formal public records surely tells a different story! The smoke-and-mirror post obviously had its intended effect though, since a lot of you are dancing and singing the "everything is fine and business as usual" song now because of it... ;)

In any case, Mr Bert Dehandschutter is probably a more relevant source of info at this point than Mr Hermans. :)


Quote from: Yasu;783990
I just got this reply from the curator:

"The company announced to start an opposition procedure according to the Belgian Bankruptcy Act. In that case the Court can take a decision to annul the first Court decision which means it is like no insolvency proceeding has even been pronounced."

This mean that it wasn't Hyperion themselves who voluntarily filed for bankruptcy, but someone else did it for them. Interesting! But bankrupt they are! :)

Here is Hyperion:

1) Unpaid developers (and perhaps other debts as well)

2) Hyperion hasn't had a viable business going for a long time, since their income is so low they don't even have no VAT liability anymore since over a year back. A hot dog vendor makes more money!

3) Meaning there can't be any paid employees at all, and nothing else that cost money. "Managing Director" this, "Director Legal" that, fulltime employed developers, etc, etc. Bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! and lies!

4) The Friedens faded out of the picture after OS4.1.2 release (court documents from Amiga Inc <-> Hyperion trials showed us that Hyperion owned them something in the line of two millions if memory serves me right), as did many (all?) others, replaced by "ssolie" who *never* was a real employee (but fancy made up titles), and a couple of other, lesser volunteer workers who came and went during the years that followed. Development stagnated, for two releases the very same "AmigaOS3.1 with UAE integrated" feature was the main selling point. The 4.1.6 version bump release had the *only* feature of including some kind of package manager so that the volunteer free-time coders could push smaller sporadic updates of individual components without the work of having to put together a proper, full release.

5) The former Hyperion founding partner Evert Carton (jorit2 @ AW.net), who probably has more insight than anyone else in Hyperion dealings (at least up to a certain point), seems *very* eager to clear his name from any responsibility and liability concerning Hyperion (almost afraid of repercussions of Hyperion dealings I'd say):

   "I should not be a partner, I'm actually quite sure the legal paperwork for this has been filed and was also published (this is a requirement for it to be effective)

Bummer that the site where the publication is available has the same flaws (among others) as eg USPTO in that you cannot directly link to it)

But you can go here:

http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/tsv/tsvn.htm

That get's you a form, fill in
0466380552 in the first field (Ondernemingsnummer: say "Company Id") , and hit the button "Opzoeking" right above it

You'll see that it found 7 documents. Then hit the button "Lijst" to the right, it will get you a list of publications.
You want the first document in the list. Click the link "Beeld"
You will see a PDF that (translated) reads "Mister Evert Carton has, effective Feb 1 2011, effective immediately, resigned as director from Hyperion Entertainment"

It's this document that I could use, and have used, and being effective at it, to fend of any calls to my liability, no further questions asked, by official and non official organizations, it is in other words sufficient legal proof that I am no longer a partner and no longer liable. It's effective on the date of publication, the date of publication being indicated by the stamp Apr 4 2011."


Why does he, who has had full insight in Hyperion dealings, feel the need to "fend off any calls to his liability" from official and non official organizations, one might wonder? Why is he so eager to have sufficient legal proof that he is no longer a partner and no longer liable?

In any case, things are *not* well at Hyperion.
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Offline Matt_H

Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #202 on: February 15, 2015, 02:46:22 PM »
Quote from: Kronos;784219
Actually the writings have been on the wall for quite some time, it's just that some refused to look.


Is it, though? Like I said, they have to be a tiny, unconventional shop or they would have been toast long ago. They're privately held and they've got to be independently financed as well.

Quote
Hey one might even argue that this outcome was predictable form day one and only the massive delay is thze suprise....

Fair point, but why now, all of a sudden?

Quote
As for Hyperion having just launched a product...... perfect time to go after outstanding debts (either directly or via a court).

Ah, so someone might be using the bankruptcy court as a debt collection agency. That doesn't necessarily mean they're broke, just that they're not paying someone/something. Whether that's deliberate or accidental is unclear for now.



@ thread

I notice a number of posts stating "the court declared it, it must be so!"
To which I ask: are you suggesting governmental agencies  are always correct and never make mistakes that they must later reverse? Come on, I'm a pro-big-government elitist northern liberal and I know that's nonsense! :)

Remember, all we're doing is speculating. Let's save the definitive statements for later, shall we?
 

Offline eliyahu

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #203 on: February 15, 2015, 02:48:18 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;784242
3) Meaning there can't be any paid employees at all, and nothing else that cost money. "Managing Director" this, "Director Legal" that, fulltime employed developers, etc, etc. Bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! and lies!
this is both insulting and incorrect.

Quote
4) The Friedens faded out of the picture after OS4.1.2 release (court documents from Amiga Inc <-> Hyperion trials showed us that Hyperion owned them something in the line of two millions if memory serves me right), as did many (all?) others, replaced by "ssolie" who *never* was a real employee (but fancy made up titles)...
this is both insulting and incorrect.

Quote
Why does he, who has had full insight in Hyperion dealings, feel the need to "fend off any calls to his liability" from official and non official organizations, one might wonder? Why is he so eager to have sufficient legal proof that he is no longer a partner and no longer liable?
and this is just plain trolling. the rest of your post is fine, though. :hammer:

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Offline eliyahu

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #204 on: February 15, 2015, 02:50:51 PM »
Quote from: Matt_H;784244
Remember, all we're doing is speculating. Let's save the definitive statements for later, shall we?
absolutely. there are certain people here who want to see hyperion fail, so they do everything to make it appear they have done. there are certain people here who want to see hyperion succeed, so they do everything to make it appear this is just a minor blip.

either way -- the only people who actually know anything for certain are the belgian courts, the receiver, mr. hermans and mr. de groote, and whomever filed the claim in the first place. everybody else is just guessing based on scant evidence. i highly suggest we wait and see what happens, both with hyperion and AOS4 development. :)

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« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 03:17:58 PM by eliyahu »
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Offline Matt_H

Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #205 on: February 15, 2015, 03:07:21 PM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;784209
Radio Shack is closing thousands of stores.  The ones near me have already closed.  The ones that are remaining open are being bought by Sprint, although they're going to brand them Sprint-Radio Shack.  That's the most recent I've heard.  Sucks, but they haven't sold anything of interest to me there in years.  Just would drop in for the occasional cable if I needed it "right away" for a job.  :(

Well, my point was that the company as a whole is not going straight to liquidation. Not sure what has happened/will happen to the ones near me.  But yes, very much agreed that they're great for acquiring "right away" parts. For an amateur like me who doesn't understand all the nuances of part numbers of online vendors (who often don't have detailed pictures either) being able to examine a part in person at RadioShack is very handy.
 

Offline dammy

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #206 on: February 15, 2015, 04:42:52 PM »
Quote from: Matt_H;784248
Well, my point was that the company as a whole is not going straight to liquidation. Not sure what has happened/will happen to the ones near me.  But yes, very much agreed that they're great for acquiring "right away" parts. For an amateur like me who doesn't understand all the nuances of part numbers of online vendors (who often don't have detailed pictures either) being able to examine a part in person at RadioShack is very handy.


Radio Shack filed voluntary for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in order to have the courts give them protection from their creditors.  What has happened to Hyperion is not a voluntary but involuntary so that means their creditor(s) took them to court in order to force them into bankruptcy.  When that happens, typically, the court will force liquidation (after giving a 30 day notice for other creditors to file for their fair share of any proceeds from those sales which I think ends March 4th, 2015) in order to resolve outstanding debts.  

This is extremely serious and unless Hyperion can show there was either procedural mistake during the hearing or new evidence to be add into for the court to be considered, I highly doubt the courts will reverse themselves.  That means the curator (Bert) is now running Hyperion while he does his due diligence and audit Hyperion's book keeping in order to confirm that the state and all creditors get what money is due from liquidation.

Bigger question is what is Amiga Inc going to do now.
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #207 on: February 15, 2015, 04:49:50 PM »
Quote from: dammy;784252
Radio Shack filed voluntary for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in order to have the courts give them protection from their creditors.  What has happened to Hyperion is not a voluntary but involuntary so that means their creditor(s) took them to court in order to force them into bankruptcy.  When that happens, typically, the court will force liquidation (after giving a 30 day notice for other creditors to file for their fair share of any proceeds from those sales which I think ends March 4th, 2015) in order to resolve outstanding debts.  

This is extremely serious and unless Hyperion can show there was either procedural mistake during the hearing or new evidence to be add into for the court to be considered, I highly doubt the courts will reverse themselves.  That means the curator (Bert) is now running Hyperion while he does his due diligence and audit Hyperion's book keeping in order to confirm that the state and all creditors get what money is due from liquidation.

Bigger question is what is Amiga Inc going to do now.

ACTUALLY, as a former business manager, contractor, and business owner your are VERY wrong.
This is NOT, as you put it "a very serious matter".
Its an attempt to collect a debt.

And one that would backfire in my own country where I would petition the court for chapter 11 protection.
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Offline number6

Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #208 on: February 15, 2015, 04:59:43 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;784253
ACTUALLY, as a former business manager, contractor, and business owner your are VERY wrong.
This is NOT, as you put it "a very serious matter".
Its an attempt to collect a debt.

And one that would backfire in my own country where I would petition the court for chapter 11 protection.


In layman's terms, Belgium has a "one strike and your out" law.
Just saying...

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Offline Boot_WB

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Re: Hyperion bankrupt?
« Reply #209 from previous page: February 15, 2015, 05:05:12 PM »
@Iggy

That would be true if bankruptcy proceedings were only just beginning.

The bankruptcy proceedings are over, Hyperion had their chance to defend, lots and lots of paperwork and warnings would have been sent to their registered offices, most likely by recorded delivery, over a protracted period.

It is very serious, and whilst Hyperion may be 'rescued' (or not, plundering the assets may be cheaper than refloating the sunken boat), i doubt the ruling will be annulled.

It may also prevent certain people from holding directorship positions in future.

Either way, Hyperion will probably play Greece to AEon's Germany, with analogously punitive measures exacted for the rescue.
In the long term, probably good for OS4 if it survives the legal drama. Mind you, many of us thought that with the Hyperion vs Amiga Inc outcome...
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