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Author Topic: ADOOM on A600 running 22-35 FPS  (Read 56041 times)

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Offline NovaCoder

Re: ADOOM on A600 running 22-35 FPS
« Reply #149 on: February 11, 2015, 04:26:43 AM »
Quote from: QuikSanz;783601
Back OT, I would prefer to have a one that has fast 060 with a fast buss, plenty of memory,"loved 128M on my Tek card before it died" and SATA. I'll take 1 for my A2000 & A4000T.

PS: the 4KT really should have 256M.


Yes that's what I was saying earlier on this thread.

Obviously the Classic HW market is small these days but a single FPGA card design could be adapted for all Classic Amiga's without too much effort.   If such a card was priced competitively then it could be worth it.
Life begins at 100 MIPS!


Nice Ports on AmiNet!
 

Offline QuikSanz

Re: ADOOM on A600 running 22-35 FPS
« Reply #150 on: February 11, 2015, 04:39:09 AM »
I fully agree. But more will come in time. Easy stuff funds harder stuff, etc.

Chris

PS:Actually I should have said "at least 256M".
And to settle the issue, What 68K Amiga can have more than 8Meg on the bus? none, must be on 68030 accell board or better!
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 04:53:18 AM by QuikSanz »
 

Offline kolla

Re: ADOOM on A600 running 22-35 FPS
« Reply #151 on: February 11, 2015, 05:22:21 AM »
Ok, I drink the cool aid and accept that all 68000 systems are 16/32bit and also jump around happily that someone is working hard to give us 64bit execution capable m68k!! Seriously, this announcement is HUGE, it should have its own story!! :banana: :banana:
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline biggunTopic starter

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Re: ADOOM on A600 running 22-35 FPS
« Reply #152 on: February 11, 2015, 07:14:06 AM »
Quote from: kolla;783610
Ok, I drink the cool aid and accept that all 68000 systems are 16/32bit and also jump around happily that someone is working hard to give us 64bit execution capable m68k!! Seriously, this announcement is HUGE, it should have its own story!! :banana: :banana:



Well 68000 did have 32bit instructions

This operations "32bit-val" + "32bit-val" = "32bit-val" could be done with a single instruction.
So by this definition the 68000 was a 32bit CPU.

Also the registers of the 68000 are 32bit wide.
Having 32bit wide registers also would make it a 32bit CPU.

Later 680x0 CPU did then instructions faster.
This chart shows very nicely the improvement over time.
http://www.apollo-core.com/bringup/minibench.pdf

While the 68030 was running AMIGA OS ver fast
You see very nicely how "weak" the 68030 design was compared with an 68040 or compared with the 68060.

For example doing this instruction:
ADD.l #$1234567,D0

The 68030 @ 25 MHz only reached about 4 Mips
The 68040 @ 25 Mhz reaches about 23 Mips
You see here clearly how the CPU was internally improved.

The 68060 if running @ 25 MHz would have reached 15 Mips here.
The 68060 was clearly the best 68K core but its design also had some weak spots.

Phoenix in the Vampire1 @ 25 MHz would reach 21 Mips
Phoenix underperforms here a little as we had to cut of an arm and a leg to make it fit the Vampitre1.
Phoenix in the Vampire2 @ 25 Mhz does reach 42 Mips

See see here clearly the evolution of the cores..
If you compare the 4 Mips of the 68030 with the 42 Mips of Phoenix you see that at the same clockrate the improved internal CPU architecture gives a 10 times speed up.

I think this example shows again how pointles comparing a Core by the clockrate is.
Of course a lot more then 25MHz can be reached....

I wonder if "grading" the core releases by their minibench scores would make sense.
Or maybe introducing a virtual clockrate like "performaning like a 68030 @ 400 MHz" would be usefull?

Offline wawrzon

Re: ADOOM on A600 running 22-35 FPS
« Reply #153 on: February 11, 2015, 11:51:31 AM »
this card we are talking about here has been developed and built at home by someone who actually learned how to do that. it is a firstling project. the documentation has been open sourced afaik, other people build it and everybody not satisfied with it can modify and produce it to his content. from the hardware point of view, it has never been designed for the speed it is reaching now. the original developer had a lot of hassle to achieve 68030 class of performance. now, as gunnar says there is a lot devices out there with less potential but a higher price and funny enough not just everybody is complaining about that. not long ago the general public and serious developers around even considered this a hoax.

sure thing, having 2 gig ram would be cool one day. but even using multiple tabs in owb on aros68k you can surf a while with 128 or 64mb. you should not compare 68k to ppc, which usually needs up to two times the ram for the same task.

so as this card is readily available, and in hands of people i think it is only right to tune it to the limit and develop and test the core in it, for the time being, while another hardware is on its way. i wonder whats so wrong with it.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 11:53:51 AM by wawrzon »
 

Offline Niding

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Re: ADOOM on A600 running 22-35 FPS
« Reply #154 on: February 11, 2015, 01:05:51 PM »
+1 to what you say wawrzon.

That said, I think everyone appriciate the card being presented. But, again, people start talking about what they dream about, they tend to forget the practicality of it.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: ADOOM on A600 running 22-35 FPS
« Reply #155 on: February 11, 2015, 02:12:00 PM »
might be worth to add that a600 being most compact device of amiga family has never been designed for much expandability and deserves such a compact card well. it was a good choice for a startup project. experience gathered will surely benefit eventual future solutions to fit in more advanced machines.
 

Offline kolla

Re: ADOOM on A600 running 22-35 FPS
« Reply #156 on: February 11, 2015, 03:01:55 PM »
CD32 is even more compact and features a real connector :)
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: ADOOM on A600 running 22-35 FPS
« Reply #157 on: February 11, 2015, 03:16:51 PM »
Biggun: so how about that "64bit execution" thing? Or as I understand it, 64bit address space to break the 32bit memory barrier of AmigaOS. It sounds cool, but only usable for emulators so far, no m68k hardware is even close to reach that limit.

Personally I would say the way forward is to get rid of legacy hardware alltogether, and design new FPGA based motherboards like FPGA Arcade Replay and MiST, and why not with connectors for real Amiga keyboards so people can build them into A500, A600 and A1200 cases.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: ADOOM on A600 running 22-35 FPS
« Reply #158 on: February 11, 2015, 03:20:05 PM »
Quote from: kolla;783628
CD32 is even more compact and features a real connector :)


it has no built in keyboard!
 

Offline biggunTopic starter

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Re: ADOOM on A600 running 22-35 FPS
« Reply #159 on: February 11, 2015, 03:21:58 PM »
Quote from: kolla;783629
Biggun: so how about that "64bit execution" thing?/QUOTE]

Don't get me wrong. I did not say that 64bit is mandatory for AMIGA OS.
It was just that someone said 68K Cores can not be 64bit ever.
And this is not true - technically it takes me only little effort ot make the CPU 64bit.

Offline kolla

Re: ADOOM on A600 running 22-35 FPS
« Reply #160 on: February 11, 2015, 03:45:42 PM »
But then it would no longer be m68k, would it? :)
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: ADOOM on A600 running 22-35 FPS
« Reply #161 on: February 11, 2015, 03:48:31 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;783630
it has no built in keyboard!


But it has keyboard connector on the side.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Rob

Re: ADOOM on A600 running 22-35 FPS
« Reply #162 on: February 11, 2015, 04:38:06 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;783630
it has no built in keyboard!


Neither does an A1000, A2000, A3000 or A4000.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: ADOOM on A600 running 22-35 FPS
« Reply #163 on: February 11, 2015, 04:59:15 PM »
Quote from: Rob;783644
Neither does an A1000, A2000, A3000 or A4000.

yes, do you understand what "compact" may mean?
 

Offline Rob

Re: ADOOM on A600 running 22-35 FPS
« Reply #164 from previous page: February 11, 2015, 07:00:32 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;783647
yes, do you understand what "compact" may mean?


Compact like this?